40 additional RWHP for KA24DE

[gwoods]

Hey gang,

I'm daily driving the Altima now and I know everything on the powertrain is solid. It is supposed to make 160 hp stock and the motor is fresh so probably real near that. I'd love to see 40 hp extra for around $500 in parts.

I looked at Brian Cower and JWT cams but can't find any ratings? Anyone tried these and dynoed?

I read Hitman's KA24DE-T build on the 240 from heck build and saw the intake/header/fuel upgrades he did but doubt there would be much of a gain from these without the ability to burn that extra fuel.

Thanks!

[sx moneypit]

Someone on here built a NA KAde with around 200hp, but i believe he spent more doing it than it would cost to turbocharge it.

[gwoods]

man thats the thing right, turbo is so cheap and easy brand new turbo manifold is $250 on Amazon, pick up a turbo for $200, injectors used for $100, used piggyback from a 240 for $100, ebay intercooler for $200.... the problem is as someone said everyone knows a stock KA can take exactly 0 psi of boost. I should have done rods and pistons while I had it apart.

[sx moneypit]

My 240 has a stock KA with over 100000 miles and i am running 10lbs boost. Whoever said that a stock KA can't handle boost is full of sh*t.As long as it is tuned correctly you won't have any problems.

[Dattebayo]

A good n/a boost could come from running SOHC pistons in the DOHC, but you'd want to really check your valve timing for that one.

I had the Nismo (or similar, can't remember) 9.1 SOHC pistons in my first KA, it was nice. No dyno, however. : I did burn some oil tho...

[gwoods]

lol @ me i said rwhp and the car is front wheel drive

[AZhitman]

Intake, exhaust, and the dual exhaust cam swap on that engine will really make a difference, and the ECU handles those quite well.

I just happen to know someone who builds a sweet Altima catback...

Yeah, don't listen to anyone's advice on a KA unless they've built [more than] one. While 200 whp NA is nearly unobtainable, you'd be surprised how much fun 160hp is in that car.

[gwoods]

you'd be surprised... should I bring it by?

[krash]

Turbo is the best bang for your buck. And Greg gives good advice. The KA scene is full of noobs with misinformation these days.

I think for around $1000-$1500ish you can put together a cheap turbo setup with an S14 turbo (the KA loves that turbo). But for under $500, like greg said, intake, headers, and exhaust will actually liven it up a bit. Also make sure you give the thing a good tune up and check all your sensors. Things that dont even seem correlated (temp sensor) can cause the car to run weird. The knock sensor is also a huge power killer. For me, I didn't really know it was bad until I replaced it with another one (I lost the original during the engine swap) and holy crap did that make a difference.

[gwoods]

There are some Altima ebay turbo kits for about $800?! I would want a wideband and water/meth injection so that would bring it up about $1200.

[krash]

Ebay turbo kits are a hit or miss. Sometimes they work, sometimes they dont. Quality control is non-existent. I wouldn't trust anything fuel related from those kits (fuel system is super dooper important). The turbos are hit or miss. But you can get used SR turbos for pretty cheap. I picked up an S14 turbo for like $150

[gwoods]

hmm will begin the great Craigslist search! This car has a freshly resealed motor (by me) with a new timing set and head gasket. Its ready for boost! Its also a 5spd manual so no transmission slushbox stealing my ponies!

[WDRacing]

Probably not too many people as willing to go the cheap route as I am. I've always enjoyed making the most power possible with as many stock parts as possible. Course I popped 5 RB20's in 3 years time in the pursuit of power

Anyway, with that said. You're a capable DIY guy right? If so, fitment issues won't be a huge problem. Because you're going to have fitment problems with an $800 turbo kit. There weren't even any kits for the 240 when I started...maybe one. But it wasn't great and it was WAY too expensive for what you got. So piecing together parts from other vehicles in the junkyard was what we did.

Is this the kit you're looking at?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/KA24-KA24DE-T04 ... 45&vxp=mtr

The trick to reliable, is keeping things simple and knowing what parts can be bought cheap and which ones can't. Something like a fuel pressure regulator, wastegate and other critical pieces that involve moving parts are items I would buy after making sure there are lots of others using them successfully. By others, I mean people you actually know, if not personally than at least their character is solid on the forums or wherever. Hope that makes sense...basically what I'm saying is, don't listen to Joey Baganachos when he says something is awesome, or that his brother or friend has been using "insert ebay turbo brand here" for the last 4 years with no problems. Unless you know and trust Joey. Buyer beware!

You only want to add 40whp. To me that really means 80-100....but the same parts it takes to make 40hp will are the same parts it takes to add 100. Granted, you'll need some extra parts to hit 100, but the "base" parts list is still the same.

IMHO, you're going about tuning all wrong. There isn't any need to install larger injectors at all. Controlling them with a piggyback is mediocre at best. Trust me here, I've been down this road. You're WAY better off buying a ROM tune that matches your injectors and MAF combo. So after injectors and a ROM tune you're looking at 500-600 bucks...if you find very cheap injectors. Which brings me to my next point, do you want very cheap used injectors? Injectors are one of those things I recommend buying from a quality source.

So abandon that method of adding fuel and just get a FMU, fuel management unit. Anyone that says they don't work great is a fool. Period. They are the best part available if you want to run anywhere from 4 to 10 psi of boost. More than 10 and the fuel rail pressure becomes to high. But for 40 whp you're only going to run 6 psi anyway. The FMU doesn't require any tuning and you don't "need" a wideband O2 meter. Although I'd buy one just to have. If you're a car guy, you want one. It's not like you don't have the money, you drive a very expensive Jag...or at least you did

Here's the FMU I would use. I don't have any experience with the other brands you see online, like Blox or OBX. I hear they work fine, but I can't personally vouch for them. I've used the Vortech myself. The Vortech unit is about 40 bucks more expensive then it used to be, but worth the piece of mind.

At just 6 psi you won't require timing retard under boost, but if you feel the need for additional safety, you can bump the dizzy back 2 maybe 3 degree's, but I wouldn't. Especially if you're going to install water/meth injection. Which happens to be something I'd recommend for any amount of boost.

Enter alcohol injection! You have two choices here. You can opt for a single stage non variable type, or a single stage variable. Variable meaning that as boost increases so does the flow of alcohol. For 6 psi you really only need a simple on/off type, but a variable controller is only a little more money and a far far better option. There are tons of options that all work very well and have a well documented success rate. So it's hard for me to pick a favorite. I'd check these guys out, http://www.alcohol-injection.com/en/ as well as Snow Performance and AEM.

If you want to go with an ultra budget kit, I can give a parts list to build your own. It's pretty simple really.

If I were buying a a turbo with low boost in mind, I'd buy the smallest turbo available that will still meet my power goals. You don't need anywhere close to a T3/TO4E. Something like a T25, T28 or the 2860 would be a FAR FAR better choice because you won't incur any lag for no reason. If you do get a manifold that only accepts a T3 flange, then try to source a T3 turbo.

If you go with an ebay kit, plan on the turbo dying because it won't be balanced. This is why people suggest buying a used unit instead. The wheels and the bushings are usually fine, but we're talking about something that spins at upwards of 30,000 rpm. No balance means a short life and almost certain death. We had a member in the KAT forum that worked for Speedyracer, an ebay seller, who insured me their turbo's were balanced. He worked in the repair department as they handle all of their own warranty issues in house. If I were to roll the dice on a ebay turbo, I'd buy one of theirs. Here's a thread on Nico about Speedyracer turbo's. In this thread the user confirmed the shaft was indeed balanced.

With any ebay turbo make sure you run a -3 oil restrictor on the supply side. This helps keep the inner seals from barfing oil into the compressor and exhaust housing. I had a certified Garret turbo without a restrictor and it smoked horribly after only 15 days...so ebay isn't the only place to get turbo's that malfunction.

If I were buying an ebay turbo for the Alty, I'd buy this one.

If you need a T3 flange, then this one would be my choice. Again, only because the T3/TO4 will give you much more lag than you want. More useable power is the key to fun.

K, I'm rambling a bit.

Thoughts?

[frapjap]

What does the downpipe bolt pattern look like on that turbo?

[WDRacing]

Which one, the 2860 or the T3?

[frapjap]

This one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nissan-Skyline- ... 2a36ac2183

My manifold cracked on the miata and I'm sorta kinda toying around with the idea of changing the turbo while I'm at it. Do you know folks who have had good success with speedyracers products?

[WDRacing]

It looks like a standard 5 bolt flange. Msg them and ask. Then ask if they have a flange that matches it, buy both.

How trashed is your manifold? I could probably grind out the cracked area and reweld it with some additional metal. It wouldn't be pretty and it would need lots of grinding after...but I could do it. Then again, after shipping back and forth you can probably buy an ebay manifold outright.

Do you have a welder?

[frapjap]

I don't have a welder, but we do have a machine shop here at work. Do you 'roll nickels' on a repair like that, or just glop that s*** on? Should it be repaired inside and out?

Since he's local, Mark Stalhammer offered to make me a manifold and a downpipe that is of a better design than I have now.

He and James both offered welding it as a potential solution, too. I'm skeptical because the crack goes almost all of the way around the turbo flange. My guess is it'll just crack somewhere else later on. But honestly, I have no experiences with this type of thing. Like you, I'm after performance for cheap (where it matters) but if welding will only last a year as a band aid, its probably better to just have a log manifold made from cast T's and elbows. And if a manifold is going to be made, a new turbo that isn't a Churbo (though the current one is still in good shape) would probably be a good idea to get started on now.

[WDRacing]

I'm not sure why it cracked to begin with, possibly a terrible design, no support where it was needed etc.

Here's what I do know, I have a JGS manifold. It's be cut apart and rewelded 3 different times with 3 different flanges. Those things are friggin tanks.

I would stop drill any cracks and weld it up so hot that I almost burn right through the parent metal. As for any holes, I'd grind the jagged edges, stop drill any cracks that may exist and then see if I could weld on an additional piece of metal like a patch. I did this to my current manifold when I went from a T4 flange down to a T3.

Basically I'd just throw it into a vice and go at it for a couple of hrs while I got totally hammered. I've stacked welds on top of welds many times to fill gaps. If you grind them after you wouldn't even know.

[gwoods]

Anyway, with that said. You're a capable DIY guy right?

Is this the kit you're looking at?

You only want to add 40whp. To me that really means 80-100....but the same parts it takes to make 40hp will are the same parts it takes to add 100. Granted, you'll need some extra parts to hit 100, but the "base" parts list is still the same.

At just 6 psi you won't require timing retard under boost, but if you feel the need for additional safety, you can bump the dizzy back 2 maybe 3 degree's, but I wouldn't. Especially if you're going to install water/meth injection. Which happens to be something I'd recommend for any amount of boost.


Thoughts?

Man thank you for all the info... I read your turbo sticky on the KA24 engine forum and it was equally awesome.

I am a capable DIY guy, but I'm Irish - German which means I want it done with percision .... tomorrow. I rush things and am also a cheapskate. So yep I was looking at the $800 ebay kit.

100 hp is probably a better goal something between 250 and 300 hp in a car as light as a Altima is going to fly. It also won't be so much power that I will need a racing clutch or have to fret about axle shafts and things like that.

Before the Jag I had a G35, before the G35 I had a high 12 second 4 door Dodge ram with 2 stage 200 hp nitrous. I ran a snow on/off meth kit on it that engaged when the 2nd stage (125 hp) of nitrous was activated. I agree with you there is zero point in any power adder without.... water/meth and wide band A/F. A boost gauge is nice but the wastegate does a good job of taking care of that.

I'm not sure where I'm headed with this car.. I want to finish the Miata and then I will probably turbo it and leave the Altima stock ... maybe they both need turbo's?

[WDRacing]

I almost always side with, YES, both need turbo's! The only thing I might leave naturally aspirated would be a 502 BBC motor...but they make over 450 ft lbs at throttle tip in so...

[gwoods]

So then I'm at this point.... I have a Miata that will be turbo'ed and running. I am certain I will NEVER sell the miata.

I have a 1965 CJ-5 with a 327 from a Chevelle that I need to finish and I will never sell.

I want the Mazda 6 for my daily driver and it is better than the Altima. Do I keep the Altima and have 4 cars? Seems pointless but then I know I will miss this Altima if I sell it and when am I ever going to find another super clean SE Limited with a stick? I had a 2001 Altima for my daily driver back in 2002 and I missed it. They look a lot alike and I feel like its 2002 again when I drive the 99

Heres the 2001



Heres the 1999

[Kompresshun]

Why not DD the Altima for a while and get your other two projects sorted out? Then buy the Mazda 6 and build the Altima up too.

If you have the room for all four of them, i'd definitely keep all four. I think finding another Altima that clean with a stick is going to be pretty hard.

Personally i've only got my Ford Five Hundred and the Miata right now for myself, but once Kristen finishes school and we move I probably will bring another one home.

I'm kind of similar too - I will NEVER sell the Miata. I really don't want to think about selling the 500 right now either, because it's been solid and reliable so far but I really want another 4x4 SUV for myself. I would like to get an Xterra and keep the 500 too, but i'm not sure how that will work out because I also want another muscle car too. It was hard enough to convince the wife to let me have two, so I think four will really be a stretch.

[gwoods]

Why not DD the Altima for a while and get your other two projects sorted out? Then buy the Mazda 6 and build the Altima up too.

If you have the room for all four of them, i'd definitely keep all four. I think finding another Altima that clean with a stick is going to be pretty hard.

.

I'm DD the Altima now, its fun! The longer I wait on the 6 the better the price gets I'm by no means a firsty so I don't mind waiting until the body style is a year or two old. The other thing making me think to wait is Mazda has been announcing a diesel Mazda 6 will be released in the US. Oh how wonderful that car would be with 300lb of torque and 150 hp!!!! If I wait long enough I could have a diesel mazda 6.

I only paid $600 for the Altima.... it will never happen again

[Kompresshun]

I'd hold out for the diesel too, just to see what it can do before i'd pull the trigger on either. I absolutely love the new Mazda 6 and honestly if I end up buying another sedan instead of an SUV, the 6 will be at the top of my list.

Yeah there's no way you can beat a $600 car that looks that nice and you just had to do some minor wrenching on to get road ready. I've let go of a couple of good cars like that and have always regretted it, even though I made a good profit off of them.

[krash]

WDRacing FTW with a TON of KA knowledge.

One thing I'll add as far as the fuel system info; for low boost, like 6 psi, I think the stock SR injectors will do a pretty good job (they're 370cc IIRC). You can pick them up used for pretty cheap and then get them flowtested by Deatschwerks if you'd like. For MOAR BOOSTY, STI injectors are a nice little find. STI guys upgrade pretty commonly for higher HP builds, and the stock STI injectors are somewhere around 550cc, oh and they drop into our fuel rails. The only thing you'll need is the pigtails from the STI, their connectors are different.

[gwoods]

I know the after the first month of 6 psi I would be thinking about 10 so STI injectors sound good.

I did a compression test yesterday and I have 165/160/160/150... what do yall think about that 150? still good but!

That piston actually had some marks in the top from valve when cleaned it up and did the chain and head gaskets. It doesn't leak down it isn't as high as the others? I was thinking to retorque the head when I find a set of 240 SX exhaust cams see if that number goes up. The 165 is awesome for 144k miles.

[krash]

Thats pretty good consistency with the compression reading. However, I'd be more happy with readings closer to 170 before boosting it. WDRacing am I right herE?

[gwoods]

I think the factory rating is 178 psi I'm not going to get there without a re-ring and head work

What do you think about this, I know its not complete but what Speedy Racer recommened. Price is right!

http://www.speedyracer.com/1989-1994-Ni ... 0sx-T3-T4-

[krash]

EMUSA is one of those ebay brands, so its another hit or miss situation. I've known a few people to have no issues with them, and I've known people that have blown them in a day. Also, keep in mind your manifold and downpipe are going to be different than S-chassis. If you can find a bolt on cast-iron turbo manifold, those are pretty great.