4 more years!

[R/T Hemi]

Sure. Let's take the food stamps away from the single mom and laugh when her kids go to the cupboard and it's empty. Awesome idea. After all, she can always get a job as a stripper and leave her kids in the back seat while she works right?

Let's kick the old lady with Alzheimer out of her assisted living arrangements . She can sleep under the bridge with bubba right?

Things like this right?

[WDRacing]

Sure. Let's take the food stamps away from the single mom and laugh when her kids go to the cupboard and it's empty. Awesome idea. After all, she can always get a job as a stripper and leave her kids in the back seat while she works right?

Let's kick the old lady with Alzheimer out of her assisted living arrangements . She can sleep under the bridge with bubba right?

Things like this right?

If you don't see a problem with the way food stamps are administered then YOU are part of the problem also. Quit over acting. Nothing gets fixed when people like you freak out and refuse to have a conversation about much needed reform.

http://wastefraudandabuse.org/more-food-stamp-abuse/

[themadscientist]

Sure. Let's take the food stamps away from the single mom and laugh when her kids go to the cupboard and it's empty. Awesome idea. After all, she can always get a job as a stripper and leave her kids in the back seat while she works right?

That poor lady. I bet she died of hunger.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... s/1603257/

Amanda Clayton, who caused a stir by continuing to take food stamps after winning the state lottery's $1 million 'Make Me Rich!' game show, was found dead in her home of a possible drug overdose.

Stripping saved this "struggling" mother.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/2 ... 95361.html

'Octomom' Nadya Suleman Off Welfare, Thanks To Stripping, p0rn

[Marenta]

There needs to be a statistic (repeated by different organizations) that proves how many people on those social programs are actually abusing the system and how many are legitimately in trouble.

I'll be honest, when I left the military and I moved back to Illinois, I had no money coming in monthly except what I was getting from the GI Bill. I was working 20 to 30 hours a week, continuing to pay my bills and debt off on time, but I just got into such a crunch that pennies were a godsend. So, I applied for SNAP benefits, and I got them. I got SNAP benefits for about a year before I moved back to Virginia where I picked up a great paying job. Would my case be one of those ones where I was abusing the system? I was taking care of myself, my son, and Bart on my GI Bill and my meager paycheck from my job. Was I abusing the system?

The thing I see most often is that people tend to think that those exceptions of abuse are the norm. They're usually not.

[stebo0728]

Sure. Let's take the food stamps away from the single mom and laugh when her kids go to the cupboard and it's empty. Awesome idea. After all, she can always get a job as a stripper and leave her kids in the back seat while she works right?

Let's kick the old lady with Alzheimer out of her assisted living arrangements . She can sleep under the bridge with bubba right?

Things like this right?

Here's the ugly truth no one wants to confront. Why did this single mom even have a child she damned well knew she wan't going to be able to provide for? Its called responsibility. And no I'm not advocating she abort the child, I'm advocating she keep her damned clothes on, and legs closed. I'm not advocating we give her free pills either. Im saying $9 a month pills are much easier to afford BEFORE having 2 or 3 kids you can't afford.

And before you jump my a**, what I just said hits home for me. I have 4, and I really wasn't in a financial position to do so. But I'm fighting my own battles. If someone is just going to be a welfare broodmare, and decide to find another baby daddy because it'll increase her plunder take, then screw them. I'm not a big fan of government deciding whether parents are fit or not, but if someone repeatedly has children they can't afford, perhaps these kids need new homes.

[R/T Hemi]

Because everything you can cite from the internet is true?

Abuse. Sure. Fix the abuse. Fix the fraud. But I'm much more comfortable spending money on things like food stamps and health care for those who are without means to otherwise acquire it than I was with the previous admin financing 2 foreign wars. I'd rather see a kid with a hot dog in his hand that news report about the US involvement in a foreign war. No one seems to worry about that though. If you really want a convo about much needed reform, I'm betting it would make a great topic for another thread.

[stebo0728]

Let's kick the old lady with Alzheimer out of her assisted living arrangements . She can sleep under the bridge with bubba right?

Where's her family in this picture? Sure, there is a statistical number where the answer to that is "she has no family", but I'd wager a much bigger portion of that statistic involves snot nose brats she failed to raise properly that say "to hell with her, put her in a home".

[R/T Hemi]

Sure. Let's take the food stamps away from the single mom and laugh when her kids go to the cupboard and it's empty. Awesome idea. After all, she can always get a job as a stripper and leave her kids in the back seat while she works right?

Let's kick the old lady with Alzheimer out of her assisted living arrangements . She can sleep under the bridge with bubba right?

Things like this right?

Here's the ugly truth no one wants to confront. Why did this single mom even have a child she damned well knew she wan't going to be able to provide for? Its called responsibility. And no I'm not advocating she abort the child, I'm advocating she keep her damned clothes on, and legs closed. I'm not advocating we give her free pills either. Im saying $9 a month pills are much easier to afford BEFORE having 2 or 3 kids you can't afford.

Oh good gawd. I'm betting it's god's will that she got pregnant too? We saw how far that comment got that fool in the election. (he lost)

And before you jump my a**, what I just said hits home for me. I have 4, and I really wasn't in a financial position to do so. But I'm fighting my own battles. If someone is just going to be a welfare broodmare, and decide to find another baby daddy because it'll increase her plunder take, then screw them. I'm not a big fan of government deciding whether parents are fit or not, but if someone repeatedly has children they can't afford, perhaps these kids need new homes.

And I will congratulate you for your family and your accepting responsibility for them. But, you really need to look at the welfare rules. (I have a relative who is a social worker with the Dept Pub Welfare). Having babies is no longer a way to guaranty unlimited welfare.

Perhaps you missed another option. Name the father and make him accountable. DON'T punish the kids.

[stebo0728]

What the f*ck good does naming the father do you when he's a career criminal? You ain't gettin' no chedda' of dat brotha'

And don't even try to equate what I said about taking responsibility for one's actions with those reprehensible rape comments. What percent of the situations we're discussing event originate with a birthed rape child? I'd wager its pretty low. And of those, how many actually keep the child instead of passing them on to a willing family? I'd bet that brings the number even lower. Sorry bro, that's a red herring.

[WDRacing]

This thread highlights our problems. Conservatives want to cut spending and the Liberals don't. Find a way to cut a trillion a year or we're NEVER going to balance the budget let alone pay down the debt. That's just fact. We can him haw all day about who's fvcking problem it is and who caused what...nothing changes. We're paying out a metric ton more then we pay in. We're Europe waiting to happen unless we cut spending.

Tax increases don't make a difference people. Seriously...why do you Liberals think we'll be ok as soon as we raise taxes on the 250k+ club? That won't even come close to digging us out.

FFS we have to stop spending.

Here's a CNN article for you guys to read.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/05/news/ec ... /index.htm

[Marenta]

Whoa there guys... every single one of you knows what it's like to be a horny bastard and men can and will say the damnedest things to get into a girl's knickers. So, it takes two to tango. That child is not the sole responsibility of the mother, and if the father is a deadbeat (http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/05/news/ec ... d-support/) and the mother decides to raise the child, why should she be punished for accepting responsibility for her actions? If she's working a part-time job or going back to school or whatever, and she's trying to further her life and still be responsible for a child, I say that she deserves the support. Once she makes it out of her situation, she'll be donating back to the same system that helped her when she was down.

Edit: Oh, and to put things into perspective about raped women keeping kids:
http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/10/25/a ... liticians/

[R/T Hemi]

I agree with Marenta. It's no different than giving a college student grants to help complete his education. Once he graduates, he returns the benefit to society by becoming employed and pay back into the system for 40+ years.

[WDRacing]

[R/T Hemi]

[Marenta]

Your enthusiasm astounds me, Brian.

All I'm saying is that this extreme notion of abuse being the norm is not the case. I know more people who legitimately are on social programs and are busting their arse off trying to find work and help their family survive. I know more of these cases than the Obamaphone cases.

Don't get me wrong, either. I'm not saying that these programs shouldn't be slimmed down and trimmed and pruned and generally reduced. I'm just saying that they shouldn't be removed in their entirety.

[stebo0728]

Address the abuses and we'll have a clearer picture of real need.

And if women wan't to claim sole right over their body, which I don't begrudge them, then they have to claim sole responsibility as well. And no body is saying "don't have sex" here either. Do it responsibly. And if you can't do it responsibly, then don't do it.

But this one issue is a bell weather for our overall problem. As I said in R/T's other post. We've set up a legal and moral system that condones plunder. How do you walk that back? How do you walk back a near majority portion of America that buys into cradle to grave government control? Human are like electrons, we take the path of least resistance, and our nation is starting to short circuit, and we seem to have no overload protection.

[WDRacing]

Reminds me of Gnomeo and Juliet...just watched that with my kids the other night.

Seriously though, check out this link, it's a great list of facts, I like 39 myself. If you were alive when Jesus was born and you spent 1 million dollars a day since then, you'd still have not spent a trillion dollars.

Also, we spend over a million bucks a minute on the Nat Debt interest.

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/arch ... ional-debt

It's a serious problem, it needs to be dealt with or the country will collapse. If it collapses all the good intentioned spending won't matter at all. Stopping the wars entirely and taxing the 250+ club isn't going to fix it. We have to cut spending. So like it or not, you're going to have to cut entitlements.

[Marenta]

It's a serious problem, it needs to be dealt with or the country will collapse. If it collapses all the good intentioned spending won't matter at all. Stopping the wars entirely and taxing the 250+ club isn't going to fix it. We have to cut spending. So like it or not, you're going to have to cut entitlements.

I'm not sure about R/T, but I've made it pretty plain and clear where I stand. I'm willing to cut entitlements and hell, I'd like to see them slimmed down considerably, just not abolished. I'm not saying it's going to be pain-free and we're all going to hold hands and sing Kumbaya, but I'd like to see REAL tax reform as well as entitlement negotiations. With those entitlements come the military spending, too.

I don't want to see any more tax code changes. I want to see the tax code wiped clean and start from fresh. Flat tax, fair tax, sales tax, whatever tax.. it's a whole hell of a lot better than what we've currently got. My problem, is that I want both. Cutting and Tax reform, both. Not just one, not just the other.... BOTH.

[stebo0728]

That's it, you just hit it Marenta. No one is actually saying get rid of these things altogether, at least not anyone that matters. A safety net is ok. But when conservatives start wanting to prune, the immediate response is "OH WE CANT GET RID OF THAT". Well dammit not one said get rid of that, we said "lets spend it better" or "lets stop enabling career moochers". Public aid should be temporary, and sometimes you have to cut someone off before they better themselves, that's just how it is.

[WDRacing]

Your enthusiasm astounds me, Brian.

All I'm saying is that this extreme notion of abuse being the norm is not the case. I know more people who legitimately are on social programs and are busting their arse off trying to find work and help their family survive. I know more of these cases than the Obamaphone cases.

Don't get me wrong, either. I'm not saying that these programs shouldn't be slimmed down and trimmed and pruned and generally reduced. I'm just saying that they shouldn't be removed in their entirety.

Did you see anywhere that I said cut these programs? No. I also never said that cases of abuse were the norm...anywhere. I'm saying...now pay close attention so I can quit saying the same damn thing over and over again.

WE'RE BROKE. We don't have a choice here, it's too late, it has happened already. Tax increases and stopping the war AINT GONNA CHANGE THAT. The economists have already concluded that as a fact.

We can all get together and blame the Bush family and Reagan and any leader that wasted our money on the way to where we are right now. That doesn't change the damn destination. Jesus, it's like you guys are ok with watching the country go down the drain. Just because the election is over doesn't mean anything has changed. We're still totally up s*** creek without a paddle and you guys keep rocking the friggin canoe and giggling like school girls at a pajama party.

We can't keep going on like we are, it's impossible. We're at 6 billion a day in interest payments on the debt...that was last I looked, it's more now. We're totally f'd for crying out loud and RT is yammering on about free college education. Hello!

*Ninja Editing Done*

[ImStricken06]

DOW drops 100+ at opening. I guess the lack of tax relief for the filthy rich is upsetting the little b@$tards.

why the hate, jealousy, and straight up disgusted attitude towards "filthy" rich "bastards"?

whats gonna happen if one day you strike it big? what if you open a business and it turns you into a millionaire? what if you are a business partner in a venture that strikes it big = are you gonna hate yourself? are you gonna give it all away so you are not mistaken for a "filthy rich bastard"?

-seriously man, its one thing to have healthy jealousy(the one that motivates you to do better/work harder) - and another that simply hates anyone that has more than you. and PS: not all investors are "filthy rich".

[WDRacing]

If I get intense it's not personal btw. I'm just passionate about this topic and I get heated quickly. Please consider my posts as if we're shooting pool and drinking beer. You guys probably know this by now though...

I swear a lot in person and I have a Boston accent if that helps the image any

[ImStricken06]

Neither candidate and nobody in congress gives two s*** about America's problems.

well said. all they care about is pandering to a voting block thats going to guarantee them a seat.

if liberals cared about the country's future, they would seal off the boarder, kick out illegals, stop allowing anchor babies to come into play, cut back welfare handouts to able bodied individuals, and instantly label gangs (bloods/ms13/sur13/crypts, etc) as domestic terrorists and allow law enforcement the ability to dismantle the TERRORISTS the same way they allowed law enforcement to target any 'white-power' organizations. its funny, cities are being destroyed by bloods & crypts & Latino gangs and they are NOT labeled as domestic terrorists. yet a couple low-rent/low-life 'white power organizations' are labeled "terrorists".

-but that would target a huge population of minorities. and as we all know the lazy & criminals vote DEMOCRAT.

[Marenta]

If I get intense it's not personal btw. I'm just passionate about this topic and I get heated quickly. Please consider my posts as if we're shooting pool and drinking beer. You guys probably know this by now though...

I swear a lot in person and I have a Boston accent if that helps the image any

I'm not taking it personally. There are two things that people get really heated about, really quickly: politics and religion.

When I was casting my vote, I couldn't vote for BO. I went with my gut and went with Johnson.

I hate that Pubs are against tax reform, and I hate that Dems are against entitlement cutting. It sickens me. It HAS to be both. This one way or the other crap is what got us here, and it infuriates me to no end.

I'd like to think I'm a reasonably well-adjusted able-bodied individual, and if I can accept and work with people that have completely differing opinions than me and still get something accomplished; I don't think it's too far of a cry to be able to demand the same thing from our congressional leaders and the POTUS. It's called compromise and sharing, you learned it in kindergarten.

[szh]

I went with my gut and went with Johnson.

So did I ...

I hate that Pubs are against tax reform, and I hate that Dems are against entitlement cutting. It sickens me. It HAS to be both. This one way or the other crap is what got us here, and it infuriates me to no end.

Totally agreed here.

Z

[ImStricken06]

HA, that's the problem. Conservatives want to cut entitlements, and the ones you offer up are SS and military benefits. Why aren't you intellectually honest enough to discuss the people who've become wholly and completely dependent on papa liberal to pay their way? When we talk about wanting to cut entitlement, you know damn well we dont mean social security and military pension. You know damn well that we're sick of buying people food and phones and houses when they're perfectly damn capable of paying their own damned way, unemployement be damned. Half the problem with unemployement is we allow people to refuse to underemploy themselves for a period of time. There are plenty of jobs out there begging to be filled, that folks are either too lazy or too "overqualified" to fill.

couldnt have said it better man. very well said.

[ImStricken06]

There needs to be a statistic (repeated by different organizations) that proves how many people on those social programs are actually abusing the system

JUST TAKE A CRUISE THROUGH ANY GHETTO IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ON ANY WEEKDAY DURING THE WARM MONTHS. when normal people are going to bed because they have work in the morning, the ones abusing the system are up till 3am grillin/smokin/chillin/dicin/drankin, and then gettin "they fuk-on".

hey Marenta, how do single mothers do it in just about every other nation? they dont get crap from the government = but they manage.

again, go take a spin through the ghetto and see for yourself the rampant abuse of the system. YOU have morals and only used what you needed and left the system once you were back on your feet. unfortunately greed ALWAYS overtakes any form of socialism, hence its constant failure.

[Marenta]

Whoa whoa whoa.. So, JK Rowling who used UK's gov't assistance didn't put it back to good use?

As much as I hate Wiki... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_state

If you're outside those areas, you don't survive as a single mother because you are honor killed, starve, committ suicide.. any slew of death options. Not every nation has the option of women working and making a living for their families. But, of the countries that this is an option.. yeah, they all have "welfare" for them.

[ImStricken06]

welfare needs to be re-examined period.
it punishes those who want to work. if you work hard and make more = they take away your benefits. all that does is give the inclination to NOT work hard and to NOT seek better employment.

welfare needs to be capped at 6months to 1year of help, no more often than every 3years. that will give people the help they need, and then the people will be forced to seek a better job or place in life because the help WILL end soon.

welfare needs to STOP giving more money to women who produce more babies. babies = paychecks. plenty young women realize that welfare isnt all its cracked out to be, and start producing more kids to make more money.

welfare needs to be for single moms AND married moms. this will stop the game women are playing: get knocked up by the boyfriend and then claim the baby's father is a deadbeat and a run-away while that is a total lie.

welfare needs tro drug test its applicants and to constantly drug-test them just like many governmental places of employment.

if i think of anything else all add lol

[szh]

Whoa whoa whoa.. So, JK Rowling who used UK's gov't assistance didn't put it back to good use?

It is easy to find exceptions to any "rule", of course!

But, one exception does not make the norm.

Z