4.5 pgs of crap and FI vs NA +F1

[WDRacing]

I say we delete everything except our debate on FI vs NA...lol.

[DjPantsSpecR]

lol, no that debate is almost as big a problem as fake dyno charts, or a wang-shaped dyno chart.

[Bigvinnie]

How are you making your peak power at 14.7:1 at WOT in the upper end of the rpm range? Most NA motors tend to make their peak power with AFR's around the 12.8-13.7:1 range.

I use an SAFC to lean out with, and use an auto ecu on my 5 speed stick. I've tuned biki before on my friends cars and yes about a 12.7:1~13.2:1 is better if you increase the ignition timing which would increase the cylinder tempratures, this is also dependant on manifold and header modification.Last time I used my friends wide band I was running 14:1 AFR flat. It makes alot of power if the distributor isn't advanced. I tuned it from a 13.7:1. When I did advance the distributor it felt as if I lost alot of torque at WOT, so I left timing at 20BTDC, I wouldn't be surprised if it made decent if not more power at stoich even dropping the timing a little more down towards 18BTDC.Just so you know I'm not a liar like most people in this forum I have a quick pic.Just with bolt on's and SAFC adjustments I was able to run at 15.3 at infinion raceway, with a .838 reaction time it was a bit short of a 16.1. NHRA tracks include reaction time, it is the most rediculous thing I have ever heard of. I run head up wiht my friends H22 prelude running a VAFC.

[Jookmasta]

so he hasnt posted up any dyno charts yet?

[WDRacing]

All you need now is a little boost....LMAO. Sorry, couldn't resist.

Have any of you guys considered a low boost high compression build? I don't know of anyone in KAT who's actually attempted it.

I have ALOT of idea's in that category, but I'm more of a high boost kinda guy myself.

WD

[nismofly]

Didn't they run on basically straight Toluene with like a splash of water?? I can't remember exactly, I used to know when I was getting into the DIY Alky Injection. But methonal is just so much cheaper...hence my lapse in memory...or perhaps it was the beer.

i dont remember about back then, but these days theyre required to run gasoline, its one of the things that keeps their power in check

that said, of course its super secret crazy gas that takes half of shell's chemical engineers to develop...but it is still gas

[Bigvinnie]

All you need now is a little boost....LMAO. Sorry, couldn't resist.

Have any of you guys considered a low boost high compression build? I don't know of anyone in KAT who's actually attempted it.

I have ALOT of idea's in that category, but I'm more of a high boost kinda guy myself.

WD

High compression scares me. My friend at Nissan of Antioch owns a 350z. He added a Greddy turbo kit and fried the motor before we even made it to the freeway. There is just way to much fine tuning involved when the compression is higher than 9.5:1 CR. Alot of my honda buddies have done super charging with the jackson racing kit on the K20a's, and one of my friends has an experiment on his H22 with a 10.0:1 CR. I have noticed that there isn't alot of boost on high compression before it blows.
Modified by Bigvinnie at 6:19 PM 12/7/2006

[ShionS14]

Yes they used some sort of crazy mixture like that, it was before my time so I am not in the know pre late 90's. Now they use a petrol mixture similar to 102 octane racing gas.

lol, a few things have happened in this thread.

the only things i wanted to add about any of this debate was this:

on the level of these F1 cars, the N/A motors do infact, as you say " have the magical hand of boost gods" IN them.

you cant tell me that an all-motor engine with a plenum and runners tuned to high rpm, doesnt use a gain of at least 1-2+ psi depending on max rpm.

thats why N/A motors like plenums under the size of their displacement. less volume allows the air in the plenum to be "packed" or pressurized more easily by the columns of air bouncing back and force and inverting.

turbo motors like plenums to be 100% or greater than the motors displacement. for example i hear Xcesssive has choosen 3.2 liters for their KA plenum. This is because turbos are already pressurizing the air, and too small of a plenum couldnt move enough air. this will start to cause turbulence and possibly reversion of sorts.

so... i guess all i wanted to say is that N/A motors use pressurized air to make more power....

and we're missing the point of this whole thread:it sucks and its four pages.

If you look at an F1 engine lay out they utilize individual throttle bodies, actually WD wasn't it you that posted the Renault engine being tested? Sitting static this engine can only rely on vacuum to draw air into the cylinder. Once the engine is in the vehicle and the airbox is attached, you put the car in a forward motion, and air is pushed into the chamber. Now I don't have numbers or speeds but the engine continues to suck in more air than the forward motion can push into the chamber leaving a vacuum, until a certain speed. Once that speed is reached than you would have a positive pressure, how much pressure would depend on the speed. The only fallacy in that is an F1 engine is so efficient at sucking air in that the minute amount of positive pressure created becomes negligeable. In our cars you would call this a ram air and it does help actually. Maybe we should move the FI and NA stuff into the Technical forum?

[DjPantsSpecR]

no, this thread sucks, maybe we'll come up with something decent for someone dumb enough to have read to page 4.

i wasn't going to even touch F1 technology because i havent had time to research it properly. Those air boxes do have ridiculous ram air technology, but i think the psi is limited to around 2-3psi at serious racing speeds. again this is jsut going off of what i remember reading.

now even though these are ITB's, this resonance still obviously exists because it would only apply to wideopen throttle. and that on a properly tuned intake on a very high rev situation might be producing around 2psi of boost for one peak rpm.

so, now the next part im not sure how it works, and since this is all something i cant prove, i can only assume this:

if the air is pressurized in the open plenum from ram air and while at a specific resonance RPM tuned by the cams and runners, do the pressures add up cumulatively, or are they multiplied?

it could be multiplied because the air coming into the system is already compressed, and it is the air being used in the plenum and runners to compress the air further during resonance.

so i wondering after all is said and done they are making 4-6 psi of additonal pressure, or 3-4 psi. either way it's too ways to gain a fairly significant amount of pressure in an all motor app.

has anyone seen the skunk2 k24 rsx all motor car that runs 9s? there are some cool pictures of that plenum/ram. i'd love to know whats happening

[nismo_power]

Just with bolt on's and SAFC adjustments I was able to run at 15.3 at infinion raceway, with a .838 reaction time it was a bit short of a 16.1. NHRA tracks include reaction time, it is the most rediculous thing I have ever heard of. I run head up wiht my friends H22 prelude running a VAFC.[/QUOTE]

so ur saying that ur car is stock with just bolt ons such as I/H/E and a safc, ur running a 15.3 at the tracks without the reaction time???cause if thats the case then u have a fast a$$ car....and ill be doing that too!!!!

[WDRacing]

All this intake talk leaves out the most efficient exhaust system on the planet. I mean it scavenges the exhaust so well, it basically pulls the exhaust gases out without help of the exhaust stroke. The manifolds being constructed from unobtanium retains every ounce of latent heat energy to transfer the spent gases right out the exhaust tip at mach speeds...creating that oh so beautiful music...man just talking about that makes me horny.

This thread doesn't suck...I think it picks up quite nicely after I bashed the retard with Daddy issues.

WD

[DjPantsSpecR]

thats not even talking about how it is dumped onto the body.

the exhaust outlets are an aero part of the car, and that pressure differnce also helps promote flow, and aero.

F1 stuff is still way above my level, and it blows my mind everytime i learn another thing

[WDRacing]

I wish I had the time to learn even half of the tech that goes into F1...thats why I'm a turbo guy. In thrust we trust man...

[neverlift]

yeah this thread is great alot of good info once the lying was done. Plus it will pave way for noobs that think about lying about dyno charts.

I gtech at over 190hp all the time I dont come tell you guys because its bull ****. I just erase and go again. On his dyno I bet I can get over 200whp

[ShionS14]

The exhaust is truly remarkable it is made up of an inconel titanium alloy if I remember correctly and ofcourse they pulled out the books on sound waves and resonance in order to get them to scavenge. As for the aero that is truly where these vehicles shine. Around 4 lateral g's, 2 under acceleration, and I think it is 4 g's on deceleration. The tires even had aerodynamic properties until the FIA regulated those as well. And that is why Alonso's neck is so huge!
Modified by ShionS14 at 12:04 AM 12/9/2006

[WDRacing]

Yeah, they are inconel, which to me is unobtanium...lol.

Aero is one place my knowledge definitly dipps into the retard scale. Since I'm a 1320 guy...keeping it planted and going straight is WAY easier then figuring downforce equations in the wind tunnel.

[ShionS14]

And then just think of thhe computers on board controlling everything I need to check but I think the FIA was going to give them a "Boost Button" which would allow the car to have an extra 500 revs for a determined amount of time, similar to using NOS the driver controls when to use it and for how long in each spurt. Would definately change the field up.

[WDRacing]

Yeah especially if they only gte a certain amount of "boosts" per race...like 5 total. That would be like one of those video games...lol.

WD

[neverlift]

I believe that is the cosworth power to pass button your talking about. And it was used all this year, from hearing the guy Hobbs talk about it,it made huge gains for those "bursts". Dont get started on the g's and yes that alonso has a big ****ing neck actually one of my favorite motorsports.

[DjPantsSpecR]

just speaking on an earlier post:

As a member of FSAE, we build a smaller, slower (not slow at all) formula car. unfortunately not many people are familiar with this.

we pull 1.9 lateral G's, almost 1G acceleration, and about 2G's in decel.

its balls to the wall, but i just wanted to say that im fairly certain Top Fuel Dragsters and Funnies are the only ones to pull 8 Gs in Decel. thats only because of a chute, and 300+ mph. F1 pulls are 3+ decel G's.

yeah neverlift, i got startedon G's, nigga please.

[ShionS14]

Unfortunately Cosworth is no longer an engine supplier as of this year though.

And I totally spaced and didn't realize I had put 8 g's as deceleration it is between 3 and 4 g's.

[WDRacing]

Unfortunately Cosworth is no longer an engine supplier as of this year though.

And I totally spaced and didn't realize I had put 8 g's as deceleration it is between 3 and 4 g's.

You should be beaten...

[Bigvinnie]

so ur saying that ur car is stock with just bolt ons such as I/H/E and a safc, ur running a 15.3 at the tracks without the reaction time???cause if thats the case then u have a fast a$$ car....and ill be doing that too!!!!

Even better!!! The year before that I ran a 15.1 just slightly shy of a 15 flat.There is a large difference in those times from 3 things that ocured the next year.My synchros are now shot in 2nd and 4th gearIt was 10 degrees cooler the year before, this years time the temprature was 99.8 degrees.My VLSD now has more slip as now it works like an open diff.I am .2 seconds shy from making a 14.9 which is the average 1/4 mile time of an sr20det.
Modified by Bigvinnie at 5:43 PM 12/8/2006

[ShionS14]

Yes i should be beaten. Oh well though, I am interested to see how next season turns out especially since Raikkonen is taking Schumi's seat and Masa is still going to be number two even though he did remarkable this season. I am still not sure why Alonso said he left Renault because of reliability issues with the car because Mclaren is worse right now. It is going to be interesting I can't wait. It really sucks though because nobody I work with or even know watches the races, most never even heard of it, so while they are of talking about football I am stuck actually doing my job because no one shares my same interest for me to jaw jabber with.

[neverlift]

I like masa dont get me wrong but kimi with a well supporting team can do good work. A pretty bad run this year IMHO,howerver I felt like mclaren was not 100% backing him in efforts to win the constructors championship. I think alonso will get better performance/reliability from mclaren, I think they just dint want kimi to take the championship to ferrari. Alanso in my opinion left simply for the fact his old chief was kinda a d!ck never talking with just at and I cant stand that **** myself. Also would you like to walk up to a ***** and be like I drive F1 for mclaren(panties drop) or renault? (chastity belt gets tighter).

I too am the only person I know that watches and enjoys f1. untill now.

DAMN IT DJPANNIES! ohhh **** thats a good one! WTF? is FSAE I'll bite for a minute. Man that manifold idea I have is bouncing around but time/cash(xmas) is tyte like tyres wida stretch. Fine nigga talk about them G's,I cannot tho I pull a .01 g on the gtech for accel
Modified by neverlift at 5:49 AM 12/9/2006

[ShionS14]

Oddly enough, I knew the 240 was a good handling car straight from the factory but I finally saw the numbers, .98 lateral g's, that is pretty good for a entry level sports car!

[thomasjamal]

wdracing

1.im not lying

Dude, you need to either:

A. Post some real freaking proof or

B. Just admit that you are lying.

Because nobody here believes anything that you are saying. Of course, you don't care what people here think...

Except that you keep posting like you do...

If you have really done all of the work you claim then you should just put up some proof, quit acting like Fast and the Furious thinking it's cool to keep your engine secret, and get the respect you deserve. If you're full of crap, then just go away.

[WDRacing]

Man, you're ruining our new thread...this has turned into a FI vs NA thread with info about F1.

[audtatious]

Dood!!! I am putting down maaaad numbers with my Maxima. 689.62382978 wheel horse powah. All by simply tightening my alternator belt!!!!!

I will post a dyno chart later. Just sit there in anticipation

[WDRacing]

You liar, I seen you bolting on those dual PC fans for boost. Not to mention the SplitFire stickers hidden in the trunk...can't even trust our Admins anymore