360 dead again...

[Morph]

Yep number 2 dead. First started freezing in Halo 2 a few weeks ago at random. Then about a week after that it started red ringing.... I tried to drag it back to AAFES but the bastards wouldnt take it, they told that i would have to take to back to MS and wait about 6+ weeks. PS3 Here i come. Funny thing is after mine died all of my friends died, one of them is on number 4 .

[OldmanPurdy]

Sorry to hear, at least the warranty has been extended now even though MS is slow as hell getting the new systems out.

[otterman]

I havn't really kept up the 360 problems but I heard it's because of them getting too hot? They do make water cooling kits for the 360. We're going to put on on my friends 360 (just for fun and to see if it helps.) I'm pretty sure it voids the warrenty but we're pretty good at removing the warrenty seals without breaking them. And if it keeps it from overheating and fudging up then who needs a warrenty?

[Morph]

Incase something else breaks??? Just a thought.

Mine did get hot as hell. Even being standing on the floor I could cook an egg on that ****er after about 10 min.
Modified by Morph at 12:57 PM 7/23/2007

[otterman]

Incase something else breaks??? Just a thought.

Mine did get hot as hell. Even being standing on the floor I could cook an egg on that ****er after about 10 min.

Eh, if anything else breaks we can fix it lol. Unless it shorts out or something fun like that. You can pretty much build an Xbox, hardware wise, out of spare parts on Xbox part store things.

It's crazy that all these XBox's are now starting to freak out. Or maybe just now it's getting more attention and they've been messing up all the time?

[dickie]

dunno but its good for ps3 for 2 reasons:

1. if the ps3 is relatively problem free, it speaks volumes on the build quality that went into it.

2. even if ps3 is plagued by a few issues in the long run, couldnt be worse than fubared systems that take 6+ weeks to RMA.

[Morph]

Ya, its prob been happening all along, one of my friends is on number 4, first two dvd drive was dead, 3rd, hdd went out on the 2nd day, and the one he has now will red ring on a cold boot. .

I havent had any probs yet with the ps3, runs a helll of alot cooler sides are nice and cool and the air that is coming out is warm but not alarmingly so.

[dickie]

so the 360 is like the equivalent of a hairdryer?

[OldmanPurdy]

so the 360 is like the equivalent of a hairdryer?

Yeah more or less, the heat alone shouldn't be enought to cause it to fail but because this is considered a childrens toy MS is required by law to use inferior lead free solder which has a lower melting point than leaded solder. The solder balls connecting the gpu and cpu actually begin to melt due to the combo of poor cooling/solder and loose their connection causing the 3 rings.

[otterman]

Yeah more or less, the heat alone shouldn't be enought to cause it to fail but because this is considered a childrens toy MS is required by law to use inferior lead free solder which has a lower melting point than leaded solder. The solder balls connecting the gpu and cpu actually begin to melt due to the combo of poor cooling/solder and loose their connection causing the 3 rings.

I wonder what MS is doing when people send them in? Are they actually fixing the heat issue or just replacing the parts and hoping it will be a while before they start heating up again.

[teddy]

I wonder what MS is doing when people send them in? Are they actually fixing the heat issue or just replacing the parts and hoping it will be a while before they start heating up again.

Replacing the parts. They have not come up with a fix for the system, not because they don't know how, but I'm assuming because it will cost them less to keep replacing, compared to reengineering and changing the manufacturing process. It was obvious when they extended the warranty that they have no intention of fixing it, and then have the nerve to say that the problems occur when you plug them into a surge protector or something like that.

Also, I think the official statistic released was something like a 30% failure rate.

[OldmanPurdy]

I wonder what MS is doing when people send them in? Are they actually fixing the heat issue or just replacing the parts and hoping it will be a while before they start heating up again.

At first thats exactly what they were doing hence why so many people have gone through many systems. However now they claim to have a fix, which I believe is related to the "xclamps" that hold the heat sinks onto the cup/gpu. They tend to flex alot which allows the chipsets to come off the board when they overheat.

[otterman]

At first thats exactly what they were doing hence why so many people have gone through many systems. However now they claim to have a fix, which I believe is related to the "xclamps" that hold the heat sinks onto the cup/gpu. They tend to flex alot which allows the chipsets to come off the board when they overheat.

So the chipset comes off when it overheats? They'd still have to send in the system to get it repaired (unless they do it themselves which would void the warrenty)

[OldmanPurdy]

So the chipset comes off when it overheats? They'd still have to send in the system to get it repaired (unless they do it themselves which would void the warrenty)

Well it dosen't come off per say but it moves enough to cause some of the connections to come apart. At that point it may as well have come off, I've fixed a few by using vinal washers and 10mm bolts to hold the heat sinks in place then I unplug the fans and let the system run. The heat the system generates actualy resolders the points back on and the bolts hold the sinks on tighter so that they don't come off again, now with the new warranty MS has its not something i'd do again but I can say this is a huge flaw on every 360 out there. After seeing this I now keep my 360 flat on the stand under the assumption that if the soldew melts that gravity will keep it in place..........of course the vents in the side are now covered.........man 5 years ago i never would have imagined a system could be this unstable

[bmike818]

my 360 just died last week... it's okay, I will send it in for repair and I am going to buy the Elite360. I would like to buy a PS3, but no games, and weak online features.

I play too much 360, so I blame myself for it overheating-I got my $399 out of it already. MS fixing it is just a bonus for me.

[C-Kwik]

Replacing the parts. They have not come up with a fix for the system, not because they don't know how, but I'm assuming because it will cost them less to keep replacing, compared to reengineering and changing the manufacturing process. It was obvious when they extended the warranty that they have no intention of fixing it, and then have the nerve to say that the problems occur when you plug them into a surge protector or something like that.

Also, I think the official statistic released was something like a 30% failure rate.

My understanding is that an effective solution has been designed and is being used in the repairs. It's likely they developed it some time ago, but needed to line all their ducks in a row to effect the 3 year warranty (I'm sure it was a logistical challenge). Moving forward, it would be a really bad idea not to remedy the problem either completely, or at least to a very acceptable minimum. I'd expect newly manufacturered units to be using the new heatsink/cooling design until the 65 nm chips arrive. Hopefully the 65nm design will eliminate the problem completely.

The warranty was extended to appease the gamers that are out there with the ticking timebombs (so to speak) and those with consoles that have already been bricked. As I said before, it would be a poor financial move to not have engineered an effective solution first.

The 30% failure rate has never been an official statement to my knowledge. In fact, anytime MS is asked about it, they simply state that they do not share that info. As far as I can tell, the 30% rate of failure is based on speculation and has exploded all over the web. Frankly speaking, aside from people I strictly know or know of over the web, I know at least 10 people with 360's. None have had the RROD. If the failure rate was 30%, I would expect that I would likely know at least one person (which would be 10% statistically) with the RROD. I believe the number is higher than normal for consumer electronics, but 30% seems to be quite high from my own observations...

[teddy]

Indeed, 30% seems high, but with all the "I'm on my 10th 360" stories floating around, it seemed to be a plausible estimate. I only know 2 people with 360's, neither of them having problems. But both of them aren't on their xbox consistently for long periods of time. I'd assume the majority of people with the RROD are people who play for extended periods of time daily, but that's just speculation.

I also was not aware that they were issuing a fix. I had heard them make a statement not too long ago about why they think the 360 has problems, but it was a bogus reason. And from what I gathered on forums, MS wasn't going to fix it. But that's good news if they are spitting out some kind of a solution.

[dickie]

I would like to buy a PS3, but no games, and weak online features.

i never understood why people use these 2 features to compare the 360 favorably to the ps3. Sony has SOOO much more 3rd party and game developer support signed on for their system than MS does, its like you're basically saying, "oh i will go ahead and buy the system that was released early - despite the fatal flaws that were maybe a result of doing so - because it has had time to accumulate more available games, even though in the long run the competing system will have more..."

as for online support, playing on xbox live or any other console-based online gaming feature is just silly compared to PC online gaming. if i wanted to play online, i would do it a) free and b) with a broader, more stable network. consoles are great for household playing, no matter what next-gen game i may be playing, you can be sure it wont be on-line.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Yeah, but...

AVAILABLE games

and

FUN games

Are two totally different things.

A bigger library isn't guaranteed to be a better library.

Just look at the Nintendo 64. System had a huge library. Of 99% crap. It had excellent 3rd party support, tons of exclusives. And the library still sucked.

Who cares who has more 3rd party support? If that third party support only provides games that suck, it makes no difference.

Also, the system that WILL have games a year from now doesn't do me any good now. Video game systems aren't an investment or something. You buy them to have fun. Waiting 2 years for a system to finally develop a decent library of enjoyable games doesn't make you any better off...

I'm certainly not going to sit on my butt and wait to find out if Sony's 3rd party partners are going to produce some decent games when I can turn on a 360 and play some now. More later doesn't make up for less now.

I guess the upside for Sony is that by the time they've established a decent library their system will be old enough to have dropped in price to the point that people will actually buy it...

Also, even if the PS3 was the undesputably superior system, with an undesputably superior library of very fun games, Sony STILL treats their customers like crap. Being a PSP owner was more than enough to keep me far away from the Sony bandwagon. I can't say I like the idea of spending 3 times what I did on the PSP and getting the same results.

[OldmanPurdy]

Are you defending the PS3's crappy online by saying that you should only play online gameson pc? Not sure if you've played online gaming for the 360 or not so if you haven't its understandable why you would think it sucks but the fact is alot of gamers (myself included) don't want to screw around with computers anymore. With the 360 I just pop in a game use the persistant friends list to see who's playing what and can even join their game in progress if I want. Also the full voice comms is great and something I don't believe many pc game's support without some 3rd party solution running in the background.

[Morph]

Are you defending the PS3's crappy online by saying that you should only play online gameson pc?

Crappy online? How? Only thing that i see different is a missing friends list on the ps button menu. Other than that its exactly the same.

EDIT: They just fixed that with the 1.90 update.
Modified by Morph at 9:28 AM 7/24/2007

[otterman]

Also the full voice comms is great and something I don't believe many pc game's support without some 3rd party solution running in the background.

Wouldn't XBox Live be considered a 3d party solution? Well maybe not 3d party because it's made by MS but it's still something you need to have voice comm in game.

A lot of smaller games have in game voice chat, like CS and I think Unreal has it too. Some of the other popular games have too many players for voice comm. BF2 and COD usually have a crap load of people playing on one server, it would suck and be kind of pointless to have an open game chat. Just a lot of people screaming at once.

Honestly, I'd rather have TeamSpeak and Xfire then in game supported voice comm and chat on any system (Xbox or PC) for clan use and for public chat. Xfire pwns for when you just one to have a small group of friends (less then 3) for when you're playing online and just want to talk to your buddies and not the whole server.

With these 3rd party voice comm systems being so popular already, it's pointless for PC games to waist time including a voice comm system in their games. I don't even understand why WoW is putting one in. You better be able to record the voice comm so we can still have those great videos of people getting pissed off playing WoW
Modified by otterman at 7:38 AM 7/24/2007

[dickie]

sooo.... xbox 360's relatively massive amount of "fun titles" includes what? Halo 3? anything else exclusive to that system? forza blows it, btw :P

what are you comparing the n64 to? the main competitor was... the original playstation. there was literally a crapton of awesome games for that system, some of which became franchises that will carry over to the ps3.

the xbox was known for its relatively low number of "hit" games compared to the ps2.

and how is this even supposed to be an argument when its based on something as subjective as your opinion on which games are "good?"

the fact of the matter is, statistically speaking, that with the amount of game releases available for the ps3 there will HAVE to be a better variety and selection than xbox.

as for online play, im saying that consoles still have a long way to go before they can compete with PC titles in that arena. as it stands, i would MUCH rather be playing BF2 on a stable dedicated server than a laggy pos xbox live connection running Halo 2.

[OldmanPurdy]

as for online play, im saying that consoles still have a long way to go before they can compete with PC titles in that arena. as it stands, i would MUCH rather be playing BF2 on a stable dedicated server than a laggy pos xbox live connection running Halo 2.

I'd rather play Rainbow Six Vegas on a non laggy dedicated server also, but like alot of other people I don't want to go out and buy a computer specificaly to do that then have to run seperate programs for a friends list and voice comms. Im sure the end result works better but to say playing 360 games online is stupid because a PC does it better is a pretty eliteist comment.

[dickie]

how is it elitist? i dont think that's the word you wanted to use there. i probably spent around the same amount on my pc setup that someone would spend on their 360, a game, the live package and mic etc... and my computer does a lot more than just play games. if anything i would be more practical and down-to-earth.

[otterman]

I'd rather play Rainbow Six Vegas on a non laggy dedicated server also, but like alot of other people I don't want to go out and buy a computer specificaly to do that then have to run seperate programs for a friends list and voice comms. Im sure the end result works better but to say playing 360 games online is stupid because a PC does it better is a pretty eliteist comment.

Eliteist.... but true.

and my computer does a lot more than just play games. if anything i would be more practical and down-to-earth.

Can your Xbox look up p0rn? NO </thread>

[OldmanPurdy]

Eliteist.... but true.

Can your Xbox look up p0rn? NO </thread>

No but my Wii can and does

[otterman]

Wii pwns but I didn't know they could look up the p0rn!

With the Wiimote and all the crazy motion sensitive devices for the Wii... the possibilities for WiiPorn devices are insane.... zomg I can't wait.

[dickie]

No but my Wii can and does

hell yes, and on the big screen too!

[OldmanPurdy]

how is it elitist? i dont think that's the word you wanted to use there. i probably spent around the same amount on my pc setup that someone would spend on their 360, a game, the live package and mic etc... and my computer does a lot more than just play games. if anything i would be more practical and down-to-earth.

You may not have intended to but to me it sounded elitist because you implied that if your not playing online games on a PC then its not worth doing and thats not true, its like telling someone not to bother auto-x their car because there are faster ones out there.