$36,050

[nissangirl74]

That's the STARTING price of the 2012 Leaf.

How do the powers-that-be at Nissan not realize that <most> people just don't have that type of money to invest in a car that is so high maintenance?


http://blog.caranddriver.com/2012-nissa ... ilability/

[Rev_D21]

Because post-2002 Nissan is dumb.

[Jesda]

And the Volt dropped its base price as well (by making the Bose system optional).

So now both cars are competing in the under-$40k segment. I'm sure both will be money losers for the next 5-10 years though.

[nissangirl74]

if I had $36K to spend on a car, it wouldn't be for a Leaf; that's for damn sure.

[alms24sebring]

Hell yeah, Id be happy to burn more gas.

Thats rediculous..

[admin]

Some dumb a** tree huggers will pay it unfortunately.

[alms24sebring]

Yeah.. They will sell

[skydragoness]

I think they will sell. Isn't there an insanely huge waiting list?
Cheaper and more room than a Tesla...

[Kompresshun]

I wouldn't buy one, but as others have already said, i'm sure there will be plenty of hippies that will. If it's labeled even somewhat economical, it will sell.

Personally, I would rather walk down the road with a 370Z steering wheel in my hands, than drive a Leaf. Just sayin'.

[Encryptshun]

Personally, I would rather walk down the road with a 370Z steering wheel in my hands, than drive a Leaf. Just sayin'.

OMG

thread winner

[Bubba1]

I wouldn't buy one, but as others have already said, i'm sure there will be plenty of hippies that will. If it's labeled even somewhat economical, it will sell.

Personally, I would rather walk down the road with a 370Z steering wheel in my hands, than drive a Leaf. Just sayin'.

$36K is pricey but with such a limited range, and relatively few recharging options away from home, I don't see the Leaf becoming much more than a niche vehicle in temperate climates. I'm sure they'll sell a few thousand of them, but I don't foresee Nissan selling as many leafs as they do Altimas any time soon.

[Razi]

I wouldn't buy one, but as others have already said, i'm sure there will be plenty of hippies that will. If it's labeled even somewhat economical, it will sell.

Personally, I would rather walk down the road with a 370Z steering wheel in my hands, than drive a Leaf. Just sayin'.

[Mr1der]

and I'll be driving a Fit, Fiesta, Mazda2 or perhaps a Korean car instead and still knockdown nearly 40mpg's and not feel like an idiot.

[Jesda]

I wouldn't buy one, but as others have already said, i'm sure there will be plenty of hippies that will. If it's labeled even somewhat economical, it will sell.

Personally, I would rather walk down the road with a 370Z steering wheel in my hands, than drive a Leaf. Just sayin'.

Funniest GD thing I've read in months

[Eikon]

I read that is costs between $6 and $8 in electricity to recharge a Leaf... and that gets you about 75 miles. Seems to me that it's about equivalent to a car that gets 40 mpg. Might as well spend $20k on a Civic/Elantra/Sentra/Versa/Forte etc....

Can anyone confirm?

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Can anyone confirm?

Let me crunch some numbers real quick.

[themadscientist]

Not cheap.


I think they would do better to push the technology on mass transit platforms so they can migrate to the consumer market with cheaper products. I'd buy an electric car, but not at that price. If I can get that better-paying job I'll likely build my own and bring it in under $10K

[PapaSmurf2k3]

The leaf battery pack is 24 kWh. I pay between 11 and 13 cents per kilowatt hour. We'll say I get a good deal and use $.15 as a figure. We'll also say that the LEAF is 90% efficient at charging (10% loss in heat through the cable, charging junk and whatnot).

(24kWh *$.15 per kwH)/.9= a whopping $4 to charge it... and that is "playing it safe" with the numbers. It's probably cheaper than that in most places (probably more than 90% efficient at charging, and most places pay less than $.15 per kWh).

[themadscientist]

Anybody figured a way to "siphon" one?



It's bound to become a thing when they are prevalent.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

I "siphoned" a normal car battery once. My battery died while parked, and the car next to me happened to be unlocked, so I popped the hood and jumped my car off their battery... without their car running.

..it was cool though, I knew the chick.

[themadscientist]

Did you shock your tongue sucking on the jumper cables?

[PapaSmurf2k3]

No, I used protection thank you very much.

[themadscientist]

Slid a jimmy hat on it did ya? You've done this before.

[Eikon]

The leaf battery pack is 24 kWh. I pay between 11 and 13 cents per kilowatt hour. We'll say I get a good deal and use $.15 as a figure. We'll also say that the LEAF is 90% efficient at charging (10% loss in heat through the cable, charging junk and whatnot).

(24kWh *$.15 per kwH)/.9= a whopping $4 to charge it... and that is "playing it safe" with the numbers. It's probably cheaper than that in most places (probably more than 90% efficient at charging, and most places pay less than $.15 per kWh).

So it costs $4 to go 75 miles. Not bad! If gas is $4 a gallon that is equivalent to 75mpg. So let's say you pay half the normal cost to power a leaf than you would for a Civic.

So at 12k miles per year: Leaf = (12,000/75 = 160 full charges x $4 = $640)
Civic = (12,000/39 = 308 gallons x $4 = $1230)
The difference is $590.00 per year

The difference in the price of the cars is $8500 since the Leaf still has the $7500 tax credit.
$8500 / $590 = 14.4 years.


So if you buy a 2012 Leaf, you'll have to drive it until 2026 and have 172,000 miles on it to finally get ahead.
AND.. that's not counting the cost of the quick charge unit that most people will want. It also doesn't figure in the limited use (range of 75 miles per day). On the other hand, the value of zero emissions from the tailpipe does have an intrinsic value to many people.

Now.. as the technology improves, the function should improve and the price should decline. That will narrow the gap. Also, fuel prices are sure to continue increasing, which will narrow the gap even further.

[themadscientist]

And now for something completely different. Compressed air cars!



No major technologies to develop. No new infrastructures to put in place. Every gas station has a compressor, but would need to have a more powerful one to reach the operating pressures required.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:EngineAir

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJeMnZuOOJU[/youtube]

It's not perpetual, nor could it ever be. that's a ridiculous statement there are always losses when converting energy and the system is not very efficient.

Now, if we can just convince the Italians to design the body.

Maybe Honda, their air car concept is sexy as hell!
http://www.laautoshow.com/dc10/Honda.html

The Honda Air concept is a vision of the future of lightweight and alternative fuel performance vehicles; a coastal cruiser for the aggressive lifestyle. Inspired by the modern roller coaster as well as skydiving wing-suits, the Air is powered by a compressed air and pneumatic regulator system. It utilizes turbo vacuums and external air-flow to regenerate tank pressure for extended range and increased boost for an estimated 100 miles. The chassis doubles as the master tank and all components, including seating, are mounted to the central chassis/tank to eliminate redundant structure and reduce overall weight.

Vegetable based polymer panels and fairings protect occupants, maintaining the solid Honda method; safety for everyone. The Air’s cockpit and package maintain the aggressive human packaging of a modern roller coaster aimed at maximizing the open air experience. In order to reduce weight and increase dynamic performance, a hub-less wheel and drive system eliminates the use of heavy drive train components. Glass reinforced seating panels, urethane tire composition and skeletal sub-frame components combine for drastic weight savings. Using a Honda generator / air compressor at home or tire filler at your local filling station, the main tanks and reserves can be filled quickly and safely.

At just under 800 lbs., the powerful anthem of pneumatic propulsion and a character unlike any zero-emission vehicle exemplifies Honda’s concept of fun to drive. The pow[air] of dreams.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

So if you buy a 2012 Leaf, you'll have to drive it until 2026 and have 172,000 miles on it to finally get ahead.
AND.. that's not counting the cost of the quick charge unit that most people will want. It also doesn't figure in the limited use (range of 75 miles per day). On the other hand, the value of zero emissions from the tailpipe does have an intrinsic value to many people.

Now.. as the technology improves, the function should improve and the price should decline. That will narrow the gap. Also, fuel prices are sure to continue increasing, which will narrow the gap even further.

I did a comparison for Greg back in the day between a corolla or Versa versus the leaf (or Volt... I don't remember haha).

There ARE other things that play a factor though. Oil changes add up, which you don't have with the leaf. You also don't have other engine items to worry about (I don't think it has any belts), spark plugs, etc.
You're gonna bend over and take it when it needs new batteries though.

I'd also be interested in seeing the progression of the electric car, and see if it makes older models "obsolete", much like progression of computers. It'd be interesting to see what that does to resale value. Do you compare it to a new EV, or a new traditional auto, or older traditional auto?

[nissangirl74]

If I want an electric car, I'll go buy a Dime shell and have Jason build me one of these. Now THIS, I would pay $36K for. All day long.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rVTIpS5 ... re=related

510 > Leaf

[themadscientist]

Or just eat Porches and Ferraris.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXqYbNEi ... ure=relmfu[/youtube]

[dgms240]

s13 rolling chassis ~$500-1500
300hp ev motor ~ $10,299
http://www.electricmotors.com/
battery bank (28 chained batteries) ~$3000
custom flywheel and adapter plate to mate to s13 trans. ~$??

300hp EV S13 <$20,000

[PapaSmurf2k3]

^ How are you going to charge it?