350 Wheel HP??

Post by **mmerritt2** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:36 am

:helpI am going to get a RB25DET into a 1990 240sx. I want to know the cheapest and most reliable way to get 350hp to the wheels. This is the first time I have posted on this forum and I already used the search button!!!

Thanks :rockon

Post by **Projekt** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:36 am

probably wouldn't be too tough. that's only about 380 flywheel and i'm sure an rb can do that half asleep :0)

Post by **93semax** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:36 am

IMO if you're looking for less than 400rwhp you should go with an sr20det or a KA-T. Cheap and RB25 don't go together

.

Post by **S15_silvia** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:36 am

seeing as how you can get the highest rb for les then the highest sr id say cheap goes better with an rb.....S14 Black Top SR20DET complete $3600 plus shipping

RB25 clip is $3250 rb26dett is 5500 and so is the s15 sr20 so thats not a big difference but i believe the rb20det is like 2500 and the s13 sr20det is umm 2850 so.... and i bet you could get 350 rwhp with the rb25det pretty easy and wiht lil money upgraded fuel pump and so on you know its capable of doing it stock ive been told

all the sr's i posted are not a clip its just the engine and tranny and stuff they call it a complete swap but they tell you you need a bunch of stuff still hehe go figure

Post by **mmerritt2** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:36 am

93semax~ The rb25det appeals to me though because it has 250hp stock and by simply turning up the boost you can kill some opposition!

Post by **FAST-DATSUN** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:36 am

HKE 2835 turbo, 550cc injector and computer to match..should give you what you want or alittle more..

Post by **S15_silvia** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:36 am

and also the rb doesnt lose so much hp through the drive train youll prolly have 230 hp to the wheels stock and if you used the s15 engine you would have prolly 215 or 220 maybe less i dont know i just know the rb doesnt lose as much hp

Post by **93semax** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:36 am

S15_silvia wrote:and also the rb doesnt lose so much hp through the drive train youll prolly have 230 hp to the wheels stock and if you used the s15 engine you would have prolly 215 or 220 maybe less i dont know i just know the rb doesnt lose as much hp

Back this up with some dyno proof please...Anyway one can get a red top sr20 for far less than $2850. It is my opinion that spending $3300+ shipping for a rb25 to do *just* 350rwhp is a waste. The original poster said cheapest solution and I believe a KA-T is the best answer. I'm not putting down the RB25...I'm waiting for mine to come in.

Post by **S15_silvia** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:36 am

no he didnt say the cheapest he said the cheapest between an sr and an rb..... and also list all teh parts you would need to get a KA-T to do 350 RWHP cause if you get the rb25 it isnt gonna cost much more then the pricce of the engien other then lil upgrades like the fuel pump and maybe a gasket or soemthing to get it to 350 rwhp its capable of that pretty much stock

Post by **ka24de_510** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:36 am

the rb doesn't "lose" as much because it actually has a higher output than what it's rated at. srs seem to be rated at actual output.

if you know please tell me how to get 350 rwhp (around 400 bhp) on stock internals in a KA.

for $3300 in a KA you're looking at maybe the 350hp if you can do it without getting into the block. you'll need a turbo, bov, manifold, downpipe, intercooler, piping, injectors, fuel pump, ecu/some fuel management, mafs, turbo timer, gauges and you'll be at the edge of your engine and probably $2600 or more. there's no way you can get block work/pistons/crank into the $3300 budget.

270-300hp I could see happening, but to me 350 seems high.

whereas with the rb25 and a z32 fuel pump you would nearly be there, and well within the limits of the engine.

Post by **meggala** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:36 am

k 350 hp in an rb 25 get your stock turbo hiflowed or buy a t3/4 internal gate a larger bosch fuel pump and an s-afc and you should get there the stock turbo is good for 300hpmeggala

Post by **Projekt** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:36 am

the rb doesn't "lose" comment is invalid. i personally would get the RB case the price isn't all that different. it sounds better. you'd have a straight six -_- and it would be far far less stressed making 350 to the wheels than an SR would. i'd like a side of reliability to go with my slice of cake.

Post by **mmerritt2** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:36 am

Projekt wrote: i'd like a side of reliability to go with my slice of cake.

I agree, reliability is one of my main concerns and I know the skyline engines are very reliable! Thanks for all of the input everybody, keep it coming!!!

Website · Post by **creophus** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:36 am

The idea of an RB in a 240 is very appealing. I don't know as much about the RB as I know about the SR. Most of what I know about the SR is from reading. I will admit that :rolleyes. I think the main benefit of the SR over the RB is that the SR just bolts right in. Therefore there won't be as many problems with the swap. Of course you can have a clean RB install, just like you can have a screwed up SR install. But what I'm saying is that the path of the RB is less charted than the one of the SR. Clearly you can make serious power with either engine. But like what 93semax said...RB seems over kill if you only want to put down 350hp to the wheels.

Post by **pitbull_240** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:36 am

From my understanding creophus, the RB is nearly as "bolt-in" as the SR. Do some more reading on the RB (not that I have done tons of it), and I think you will find yourself leaning towards the RB. For myself, I think good, solid HP, without the worries of a KA-T, is solid. I am with Projekt & mmerritt2 on that .....Quote »"i'd like a side of reliability to go with my slice of cake."[/quote]I don't feel the need to max out my engine just because I can. I want it to be reliable as well. I would love to do a KA-T, BUT for a project car. I would do a SR, but for nearly the same price, I can do the RB25, plus SR's (even though I like them too) are a BIG trend, with good reason. I like the idea of going to nearly 350hp without busting open the engine, while also not having something EVERYONE has. When I pull my KA, I am slowly going to build it from the ground up and prep it for Turbo.

Website · Post by **creophus** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:36 am

Ok, most of what I've read about was only about the RB26DETT. I have read that there are extensive modifications to get it to fit...including cutting and welding. Again, this is only information that I have read. I don't have any actual experience with it myself.

Also, you guys seem to be talking about the RB20, RB25, etc. I don't know anything about them. If there is a better choice for an engine swap into my S14 than the SR20, then I'm all ears!

I suppose I figured that you couldn't beat the SR swap without spending significantly more money and time.

Post by **ZERO** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:36 am

RB engines are probably as reliable as SRs. What it really comes down to is how much money you really have to spend. I would love to be different and get an RB20 or a 25, maybe even a 26, hell if I wanted to be different I would get a Skyline. But the truth of the matter is that if you only have money for a swap that is very limited, you might have to settle for something else. If you get an SR you are still being different, just not as much as you would like to be.

I was obsessed with getting an RB20, but when I came back to reality I relized that the risk factor was something to keep in mind. I'm not ready to take such a gamble right now so I'm going with an SR for now. If many of you are willing to take the risk, more power to you. You guys are probably willing to take more risks or know that you have something to fall back on, and that is great, because its because of people like you guys that we have a great deal resources available to us... so keep up the good work and good luck to all of you

Post by **93semax** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:36 am

KA-T 350++ HPNISSAN 2.4(KA24DE) pistons 89.0mm/9:1 $409 wisecoShot peen rods+ balancing $400JWT ECU $600Turbo t3/t4 internal wastegate $500UH Manifold $450UH Fuel rail + injectors $450Turbo timer $100Walbro fp $120Used starion IC $200D.I.Y. IC Piping $200BOV $200Down pipe $150

Total $3779

RB25det 350RWHPClip ~3300+ SHIPPING = ~3600Starion fmic 200D.I.Y. piping 200Down pipe 150 BOV 200 Custom drive shaft?? 150??GReddy Intake plenum 700--debatableInjectors 480cc s15 600--stock 370cc maxed at 350RWHPTurbo t3/t4 internal wastegate $500Turbo timer 100 Walbro FP 120 SAFC 300Total $6820 +/- who knows

1) I Highly doubt the stock SMIC will handle even 300rwhp2) If you go with a FMIC you may want a plenum which faces towards the front to reduce turbo piping which wil reduce lag.3) the stock 370cc injectors may be maxed before 350rwhp. 4) obviously my figures are just estimates and both are missing important things.

Quote »no he didnt say the cheapest he said the cheapest between an sr and an rb..... [/quote] No he didn't.. reread what he typed. :spank

Post by **rbsileighty** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:36 am

creophus wrote:Ok, most of what I've read about was only about the RB26DETT. I have read that there are extensive modifications to get it to fit...including cutting and welding. Again, this is only information that I have read. I don't have any actual experience with it myself.

Also, you guys seem to be talking about the RB20, RB25, etc. I don't know anything about them. If there is a better choice for an engine swap into my S14 than the SR20, then I'm all ears!

I suppose I figured that you couldn't beat the SR swap without spending significantly more money and time.

FYI... my car has cost $2600 with the motor in and running well... including the price of the car ($750).

What output would running a ball bearing T3/T4 yield on a RB20 do you think? If in the proper trim (auto-x friendly power band), I wonder if it could reach 350rwhp? Something to think about...

Website · Post by **creophus** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:36 am

Sounds like I'm hearing some great things about the RB engines. I do understand that they appear in Nissan's signature cars (Skyline). I live in Tampa and have just learned that there is a shop here that does SR swap. If I can get more bang for my buck, I'd love to go with an RB. Please keep the discussion going.

Night...can you tell us more about your swap. I'm also in the process of reading through some of the threads in the RB forum....so please don't tell me to search. I'm already doing that.

Post by **pitbull_240** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:36 am

93semax:

Man com'on....... Comparing a KA-T to a RB25. That's almost apples and oranges...... NO it's worse, it;s like comparing a HORSE to a PONY. A Porsche to a Yugo. When it comes to price. But I see you coveinantly forgot having to do compression, and leak down tests, on the KA, not to mention to do a SOLID KA-T some internals should be modified. (I am not saying it has to be though) Try something more reasonable where both engines need a clip sent from overseas.......

Do the same thing for a SR Blacktop (S14) and RB25. And don't find the highest RB clip and the lowest SR clip. Let's see how different the prices are versus the bang of HP..... and available HP after mods.......

Post by **mmerritt2** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:36 am

93semax wrote: No he didn't.. reread what he typed. :spank

I actually said what is the cheapest way to get a RB25DET to 350hp, not what is the cheapest engine to do it in or anything else. I just want to know the cheapest way to get a RB25DET to 350 wheel hp!! Thanks for all of your input!

Post by **rbsileighty** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:36 am

Here's some good info for you... maybe a template of what you can do for a RB25...

http://www.japanesemotorsport.com.au/newr33.html

that car is roughly 412hp at the wheels (HP=1.34*kW I think).

Post by **mmerritt2** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:36 am

thanx for that sight rbsileighty, but isn't that an rb25dett gtr? i could be wrong though, please correct me if i am!

Post by **Lin Dze** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:36 am

I Think it was originally a R33 GTST IIRC. But a hell of a car, check the vid at the bottom. Its for sale for about 45K AUS/25K US. Not a bad deal huh?

Post by **rbsileighty** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:36 am

mmerritt2 wrote:thanx for that sight rbsileighty, but isn't that an rb25dett gtr? i could be wrong though, please correct me if i am!

No... GTR's are all RB26DETT's. The site says "modifications include Trust TD06-25G Turbo Kit," so I'd say it's safe to assume it is a single turbo. That Greddy intake plenum is hot!!! I looked it up on the Trust's site http://babelfish.altavista.com....html and it is selling for $707 (85000 yen). I'd be all about that if I had a 25. Since I have a 20 instead i'll probably go with the UH one down the road.

Post by **cosmo** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:36 am

actually it's $714. http://www.takakaira.com/performance/ma ... tor>scroll down

Night, maybe you can help me out on this. Is it a bolt on affair? Is there anything else you need to do to hook it up? Will I need new intercooler piping?

http://www.skylinesaustralia.c...ntake

they were talking about it and I'm kinda confused.

Post by **Imissmyturbo** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:36 am

I was thinking about using the greddy Intake when I got FMIC and what I understood about doing the install is that you need to convert to topfeed injectors with this manifold (not sure on that just what I read on an Aussi board) but there was another discusion as to wheather it is really worth it. I would say it looks alot better but for close to 1K (all said and done) is it really needed? The stock manifold has shown to flow really good.

Post by **rbsileighty** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:36 am

Imissmyturbo wrote:I was thinking about using the greddy Intake when I got FMIC and what I understood about doing the install is that you need to convert to topfeed injectors with this manifold (not sure on that just what I read on an Aussi board) but there was another discusion as to wheather it is really worth it. I would say it looks alot better but for close to 1K (all said and done) is it really needed? The stock manifold has shown to flow really good.

It would allow for a strut bar...

Post by **rbsileighty** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:36 am

Well I just got off the phone with HKS... thought i'd share what I found out. I want to get about 350-380 at the wheels so I'm looking into the GT2835 series... and since I want it for autocrossing he said the ProS with the internal wastegate would be my best bet (faster spool up). This turbo puts out 420ps... so it's about what I'm looking for.

He also said a lot of drifter guys are getting into the new GT-RS turbo which has a 400ps output and the same internal wastegate. Now, the deciding factor for me would be the flange... more or less. I have heard everything from T-25 to T-3 for our turbo and some hybrid possibility also. Does anyone know what the actual flange is on the 20? The HKS guy said it is a T-3 and that's what the searches say too.

As far as using the turbo... will it just bolt and play (minus the fuel and whatnot upgrades). This would be the first time I've delt with this... thanks for the help!

Sig

P.S. almost forgot... spool up on a WRX was starting to boost at 3k with the GT-RS and 3500 with the GT2835ProS. He said the six should boost quicker...

350 Wheel HP??

350 Wheel HP??

Nissan Forums

Infiniti Forums

Datsun Forums

Technical Forums

Classifieds / Marketplace

Nissan Motorsports

General Forums