210 chp ka24e/de who said u cant make 200 hp

[ridin4life]

here is some info copy and pasted from the website

Nissan 240SX and Altima

( KA24e & KA24De )

210 HP Normally Aspirated Street Engine Mods.

For those of you that want fun streetable power without all the expense of a Turbo system we have developed a great engine combination suitable for everyday driving on 93 octane pump gas.

Low to mid 14 second ¼ mile times without abusing your driveline or using Nitrous. For those of you hell bent on using Nitrous the JE Forged pistons and special Total-Seal Ring pack we use will easily handle 60-70 HP of NOS without too much worry. If you want a bottle only motor or plan on running a 100+ HP unit we can supply specially designed and coated Nitrous Pistons and valves.

All engines are done on your core or we can supply a core and sell it on an outright basis. Core cost is approx. $650.00. Shipping anywhere in the U.S. ranges from $150.00 to $250.00 for complete engines depending on where you are.

Complete Engine build-up includes….

· .040 overbore 10.5:1 JE Pistons

· Total-Seal Ring pack

· Race prepped stock rods with ARP bolts

· Detailed and Heat Treated crankshaft

· Lightened stock Flywheel

· Balanced and Blueprinted rotating assembly



· Race Ported, Flowed, CC’d Cylinder Head

· 3 Angle racing valve job with hand lap and back-cut

· Secondary Butterfly system removed.

· Intake manifold match ported.

· Throttle body opening enlarged for 65mm T/Body.

· Camshafts reground and indexed.

· Valves shimmed and adjusted.

· Heavy Duty Head Bolts.

· Felpro Gaskets



$3900.00 complete



Optional Upgrades:

Ceramic coat pistons for Nitrous use $49.00 ea

High Heat coat valves for Nitrous use $9.00 ea

Enlarge stock throttle body to 65mm $250.00

http://www.racetep.com/240sxna.html

[Ajax]

That list seems short for 210 ponies. Not even any ECU tweaks. Or I suppose with custom ground cams it could be a very peaky 210...I'd want to see dyno first.

[JeromeS13]

No one said "you can't make 200 hp" with an NA KA. We all know its possible, especially when you're talking about crank hp. But, we also know that its not cheap. And, for $3900, anyone could piece together a budget turbo kit and get a LOT more power to the wheels.

[PrimeS14]

i dont think that was his point. i'm sure this guy knows that also.

i'm looking to do the same thing but my target is more in the 240bhp range. i'll have to do pretty much what is on this list and then some.when your trying to build a car, or engine, your not doing it because its cheap or fashionable.....unless you have a honda, your doing it to see if it can be done.although some people have the " sh*t, I'll just throw on a $50 turbo from ebay, F#$K you" attitude.

just my 2 cents.

[neverlift]

and I think he was wanting to get 240 to the wheels. 4grand is way more than a budget turbo build.

[boznuttz]

diesel truck intercoolers

[BadMojo]

That list seems short for 210 ponies. Not even any ECU tweaks. Or I suppose with custom ground cams it could be a very peaky 210...I'd want to see dyno first.

I'd really like to see the dyno too. I'd be shocked (but pleased) if that made 210hp at the crank. That list has been on their website for ages and I've never actually seen anyone dyno or buy that engine.

Compression is low for what is supposed to be a high HP NA engine, unless that's something to do with CA's famous pee gasoline.

If anyone wants to pay $4000 to test this...

[Bigvinnie]

That list seems short for 210 ponies. Not even any ECU tweaks. Or I suppose with custom ground cams it could be a very peaky 210...I'd want to see dyno first.

I think people need to start thinking outside the box to truely understand the power gains when compression and the proper cc injection is matched.Honestly the stock ecu can be used to make 210 HP EASILY on a ka24Look at other big block engines that are prime examples such as the honda JDM H22a. It makes 200 HP at the crank with all stock bolt ons, on 10.0:1 CR and 300cc injectors on the same stock ecu tune that is used on there usdm models with a lower compression of 9.5:1 and smaller injectors.The scion/Toyota TC (2AZ-FE) uses a 88.5mm piston and a 96mm stroke (mimicking Nissan's KA platform) it ran 1 point higher in compression at 9.6:1 (instead of the KA's 9.5:1) and makes 5 more HP (BHP160). So an easy way for you to see HP for every point added with a stock tune is about 5HP for every point gained in CR.Just a thought I would add to show countless possibilities. So I can easily see a KA making 210 BHP on a stock ecu with 300cc injectors and 10.5:1CR.Yet no dyno

[PrimeS14]

well with that said....does anyone have a KA long block?i would like to get started on my project as soon as possible.so someone let me know if they have one.

[240TweakerNewbee]

and I think he was wanting to get 240 to the wheels. 4grand is way more than a budget turbo build.

It’s been about $10k to get 255 wheel HP out of my S14 SR20det motor (done right and reliability, that’s including the cost of the clip and labor for the swap). I'm sure someone could do it cheaper but Ill still be enjoying my setup for years after his dies.

[JesusLikesKFC]

hmm "210(not whp) motor" without a dynosheet and only 3900 bucks. basically what i paid for 250daily whp....done right. Your money.

[cdlong]

The scion/Toyota TC (2AZ-FE) uses a 88.5mm piston and a 96mm stroke (mimicking Nissan's KA platform) it ran 1 point higher in compression at 9.6:1 (instead of the KA's 9.5:1) and makes 5 more HP (BHP160). So an easy way for you to see HP for every point added with a stock tune is about 5HP for every point gained in CR.

that is the most flawed argument i've heard in a long time. the engines might have the same displacement, stroke, CR, but there is so much different about the engines that there is no direct correlation between CR and HP.

i've heard going up a full point in compression (1.0, not 0.1) will increase power by 4-7%. going from 9.5 to 10.5 alone will only bump the power up to about 160-165hp. i don't see head work and cams adding another 50hp.

i think that package is a load of crap. there aren't any intake or exhaust mods (maybe they assume you've done that and are taking credit for them) and you can run more than 10.5:1 on a KA. if they have somehow done everything right, and they post up a dyno sheet, i'll be quiet.

[Bigvinnie]

that is the most flawed argument i've heard in a long time. the engines might have the same displacement, stroke, CR, but there is so much different about the engines that there is no direct correlation between CR and HP.

How would that be? Do you notice that the EPA/Federal government regulate certain rules that are for cars/engines in the U.S to follow strict guidelines?That means when you get an engine with relatively the same rod stroke ratios in comparison, even cam specs will fall relatively the same as well as ecu tuning in order for vehicles to pass smog at the strictest emissions standards, as well as streetability and idle. I don't find it to be flawed at all.Besides in all reality it makes sence adding an additional .1CR, is pretty much the equivelant of 1 additional HP per cylinder, if infact the 2 different engines can show pretty much the same ecu tuning (comparable ignition and fuel maps to pass smog in all 50states).

[ridin4life]

just so everyone knows i dont own neither do i plan to buy this kit. just everybody say that u cant mak that hp.just proof u can.if i were to go na ill do it my way with a blue bottle in the trunk.i bet i can get more than 200 to the wheels with wat i would do

[cdlong]

i still haven't seen any proof.

combustion chamber design, intake and exhaust manifolds, exhaust can all be changed slightly to add or drop 5 hp independant of compression. maybe the toyota has a poor exhaust design that drops 10hp but the compression adds back 15 or maybe the exhaust is better but only adds 4 hp but the compression only adds one. i'm just saying it's a bad comparison.

[PrimeS14]

i know of a person who built a SR20det motor as a NA and made 300+ bhp. a lot of work went into it but in the end it was a reliable roadracing car.its possible! i have the SR motor in my car right now...that thing sucks. way too many parts not reliable enough.so if anyone knows of someone who has a KA i would like to start on my project. i will be building it with 12 or 13:1 compression with a destroked,knife edged and lightened crank. ITBs and a complete new fuel system. i'll proabably end up using the EMS to tune withas well.i dont know if i'll make the 250 hp target but i'm sure i'll get pretty damn close.

[hypertek_sideview]

i know of a person who built a SR20det motor as a NA and made 300+ bhp. a lot of work went into it but in the end it was a reliable roadracing car.its possible! i have the SR motor in my car right now...that thing sucks. way too many parts not reliable enough.so if anyone knows of someone who has a KA i would like to start on my project. i will be building it with 12 or 13:1 compression with a destroked ,knife edged and lightened crank. ITBs and a complete new fuel system. i'll proabably end up using the EMS to tune withas well.i dont know if i'll make the 250 hp target but i'm sure i'll get pretty damn close.

wasn't it a blue coupe with ITBs and running on a small diet of nitrous. it was featured in a mag not too long ago.

[Bigvinnie]

i still haven't seen any proof.

combustion chamber design, intake and exhaust manifolds, exhaust can all be changed slightly to add or drop 5 hp independant of compression.

True, but it is still a 16valve pentroof design head. Your only going to change the flame front slightly no matter what type of engine it is at that displacement (or at least, at almost the same bore size). Granted that bolt on's could in effect change or alter much of the power output, it still has to be streetable. Fact still remains, that particular Toyota/Scion engine makes (160BHP) on 87octane...

[PrimeS14]

wasn't it a blue coupe with ITBs and running on a small diet of nitrous. it was featured in a mag not too long ago.

its actually all motor on 100 octane.

the car is in Japan and was built about 3 to 4 years ago.

our frinds built about 7 or 8 engines before they perfected it... almost.

it ran good in a lot of the road racing events.

[JesusLikesKFC]

i know of a person who built a SR20det motor as a NA and made 300+ bhp. a lot of work went into it but in the end it was a reliable roadracing car.its possible! i have the SR motor in my car right now...that thing sucks. way too many parts not reliable enough.so if anyone knows of someone who has a KA i would like to start on my project. i will be building it with 12 or 13:1 compression with a destroked,knife edged and lightened crank. ITBs and a complete new fuel system. i'll proabably end up using the EMS to tune withas well.i dont know if i'll make the 250 hp target but i'm sure i'll get pretty damn close.

sr20det crap? Are you high? very easy to make power with good tuning. only things that "suck" are oilpump, and valvetrain. maybee u just had a lemon.

[PrimeS14]

sr20det crap? Are you high? very easy to make power with good tuning. only things that "suck" are oilpump, and valvetrain. maybee u just had a lemon.

have you built one?

have you compared one to a KA24 or a 4G63(my favorite) or a 3S?

sr20's cant withstand high RPMs. a lot of modding needs to be done.

have you seen how many parts are in the sr WOW!!!

yes the oil pump could be better and yes the valve train REALLY sucks.the nissan engineer who designed that should be fired.

[JesusLikesKFC]

yes ive seen the parts,no i have not fully built an sr...yet. only jeep motors in my auto class. im confussed here. are u talking/typing about n/a or turbo? hell if its n/a y stick with nissan lol. so far i dig my sr but im gonna part with it very soon. i need a new project/ experiance, somthing not bolt in and a bit of a challenge.

[BIGT94z]

200chp is easy bigvinnie has a write up on it at zilvia (i think) dynoed and everything. no true engine mods just bolt ons and ecu tune with 93 octane

[Bigvinnie]

200chp is easy bigvinnie has a write up on it at zilvia (i think) dynoed and everything. no true engine mods just bolt ons and ecu tune with 93 octane

It wasn't at zilvia, it was over at club240.com. It seems that thread gets around to several forums. Nothing but positive remarks for 200CHP on stock CR makes just as much power as a stock sr20det on 7psi of boost.

http://www.club240.com/forums/...30440

In my opinion as much as I've seen or helped participate in a high CR build, at 10.5:1 CR and larger injectors (300cc and above) the KA can easily put down 200WHP. So I believe that for the under $1000 in mods, and if you can internally build the engine yourself the whole total in parts should cost under $2000. If you cant build and a shop builds it, it will cost relatively $4000.The engine will need atleast 62mm TB or better for this modification. I don't like the price that TOP end charges for there TB's either. Ported TB's should cost you under $150.... I get mine serviced and ported at http://www.maxbore.com, for $150.


Modified by Bigvinnie at 2:21 PM 7/1/2006

[cdlong]

http://www.club240.com/forums/...30440

that's the first time i've seen some put in the effort to show the accomplishments of the KA and post a dyno. technically not proof, but i'll take it. i didn't doubt that it could be done, just that no one bothered to show how. i'm suprised by how simple it is.

i have most of that stuff already. that makes me want to get a tune and start running 91 octane (but i haven't had to pay for a tank of gas in two months).

[BadMojo]

It wasn't at zilvia, it was over at club240.com. It seems that thread gets around to several forums. Nothing but positive remarks for 200CHP on stock CR makes just as much power as a stock sr20det on 7psi of boost.

Interesting stuff. Do you have any opinions on the new Brian Crower cams for the KA24DE? Much better price than the Jim Wolf stuff. I'm just not knowledgeable enough about cam specs to know if these would be worth the $$$.

http://www.briancrower.com/mak...shtml

[Bigvinnie]

Interesting stuff. Do you have any opinions on the new Brian Crower cams for the KA24DE? Much better price than the Jim Wolf stuff. I'm just not knowledgeable enough about cam specs to know if these would be worth the $$$.

http://www.briancrower.com/mak...shtml

I haven't delt with any Brian Crower cams, so I really couldn't tell you. But if the Durations are more true to there duration than what Jim wolfe claims to there cams, that could be the cam that makes or breaks Jim Wolfe cams.On average the Jim Wolfe cams make about 8WHP on OBD1 KA24de's to my knowledge. How the overlap is provided through there duration is really were the power will be made. If Brian Crower cams are true to there duration you probably would be better off.

[3dKa24]

According to Crower the Ka24de Advertised Dur. is 256/256 I thought the most duration that the Ka had stock was 240/248 for the 90-94 240sx.

It also looks like JWT S1 have a longer duration than the crower "stage 2" 275/275 compared to 264/264 , and have a slightly higher lift .390 compared to .375 so the valves open more and for a longer amount of time which would give the S1 an advantage in the flow department. But for the price hes pushing em' STAGE 2 and STAGE 3at 280$ they seem like a good buy compared to JWT which go for 560$

But why is Crower showing the stock Ka as 256/256?
Modified by 3dKa24 at 1:12 PM 7/2/2006

[Bigvinnie]

It also looks like JWT S1 have a longer duration than the crower "stage 2" 275/275 compared to 264/264 , and have a slightly higher lift .390 compared to .375 so the valves open more and for a longer amount of time which would give the S1 an advantage in the flow department.

JWT cams are not a true 275*. After about a 270 duration the engine isn't very streetable and idle runs like shiat. Last I recall from memory the JWT cams durations are measured way below that.

Nissan has an odd ball way of measuring there cam duration.This is the true duration of there cams quoted from the PDM website....STOCK 91 Cams - Intake - 207 degrees duration @.050”, .350 lift; Exhaust 215 duration @.050”, .367 lift... This also means that stock cams aren't a true 240/248 duration.....

I don't think that larger duration cams are necesarily the route to take with the KA. I believe it is more where the established overlap is at. When I saw the actual cam specs from PDM racing I was looking through numerous other cam specs. I came across some vital information as to where power can be made with the KA. The FJ24 made 270BHP with a similar cam duration which leads me to believe that the further retarded the intake cam is from stock position the more power it will make, since the sucking power and velocity of inlet air has increased further down the intake stroke.

I believe cam gears may be more the route to take than actually buying reground cams. But at the price BC sells there cams for ehh why not...


Modified by Bigvinnie at 3:47 PM 7/2/2006

[3dKa24]

So BigVin do you suggest I switch to stock cams and re-pin my stock intake sprocket a teeth or two retarded. I would but my setup pulls so sweet at 3.8K to redline. I dont see how increasing duration and lift slightly wouldnt improve power especially with all the bolt ons, larger TB, intake manifold honed, and ECU tune which is where most of us N/A guys would end up with. Unless we go F.I or increase compression.It would be nice to see someone Dyno with all the aforementioned with stock cams and then dyno with some stage 2, S1's or 248/248 swap.