210 chp ka24e/de who said u cant make 200 hp

[Bigvinnie]

So BigVin do you suggest I switch to stock cams and re-pin my stock intake sprocket a teeth or two retarded. I would but my setup pulls so sweet at 3.8K to redline. I dont see how increasing duration and lift slightly wouldnt improve power especially with all the bolt ons, larger TB, intake manifold honed, and ECU tune which is where most of us N/A guys would end up with. Unless we go F.I or increase compression.It would be nice to see someone Dyno with all the aforementioned with stock cams and then dyno with some stage 2, S1's or 248/248 swap.

A tooth or 2 retarded is too far I believe that would put you between the compression, combustion strokes? When I was saying to retard the cam I was implying to get a JWT adjustable cam sprocket. I've seen very impressive results from alot of the old datsun 510 guy's that swap KA's into there 510's. Using stockers and a cam gear some guy's were making over +20WHP.I also had an arguement with a guy in Zilvia over the matter. I agreed with his intake placement of 5 degrees retarded. But then he retarded the exhaust cam 7 degrees and leaned out too far with an SAFC. His EGT was probably going through the roof, but he did have a time slip to prove that he made a 14.9 in the 1/4mile. So that would be the equivelant of close to 200CHP. Claims all that was used was the SAFC, exhaust, and retarding of cams.

[3dKa24]

Well I wasnt really trying to say that is something I would do. Thats sounds promising so it seems cam gears are a essiantial tool for tuning. Too bad JWT is the only one who sells them for the KA or is there somewhere else to purchase them. I found this dyno online he only has a custom CAI routed to his bumper,S & S headers, greddy cat back, UNorthodox pulley, and JWT ECU and hes making 170TQ/169HP thats 194CHP after 15% drivetrain loss. So if he had Cam gears and tuned them he'd probably be at 200 +/- a couple HP. Heres the link http://www.geocities.com/wssnider/240sx.html Also it looks like hes using 4-1 headers and not 4-2-1.

EDIT=looks like the link is down Sorry guys.

[Bigvinnie]

Heres the linkhttp://www.geocities.com/wssnider/240sx.html Also it looks like hes using 4-1 headers and not 4-2-1.

Right I know about that geocities, I even have used that dyno in comparisson many of times.4-1 IMO isn't the best option for the KA. 4-1 are used on alot of high reving engines that atleast make any power past a 7000RPM redline. KA's barely make anything after 6500RPM. So it just makes more sence to split the pulses at lower RPM with a 4-2-1 to make power instead of a 4-1 which makes the majority of power 5500RPM and on.I personally own a 4-2-1 DC sports, and I have used 4-1's as well before the DC sports. Much more low end and midrange responce with the DC sports than I would get with a 4-1. Beyond my own personal experience that is the feedback thatI get from the majority of people. Also looking at Dyno graphs of s14KA's with the Greddy (4-1) header most were only making a 3whp gain compared to stock.The DC sports header makes almost 8whp compared to stock.

[3dKa24]

What are the supporting mods on that? Thats a sweet gain. But wouldnt it seem that if you have longer duration cams with a higher lift ex. 248/248 with more overlap need a 4-1 design. Because the cams are making power at higher RPM's and well a 4-1 usually has bigger diameter primaries than a 4-2-1 and needs more time for optimal air flow speed. When teamed up with Stage 2 cams (S1,JWT etc) that have all those characteristics a 4-2-1 design would counter the reason for these cams unless you do some major tuning with cam gears to make these cams peak at lower RPM's but they are all designed for mid to upper RPM power. So an exhaust system with wider primaries and 2.5" to 3.0" diamater would work well on the KA when you upgrade CAMs otherwise when in stock form with a 4-2-1 would be optimal.

[Bigvinnie]

What are the supporting mods on that? Thats a sweet gain. But wouldnt it seem that if you have longer duration cams with a higher lift ex. 248/248 with more overlap need a 4-1 design.

Your missing the point. The KA24de with stock internalls will not see a well balanced and harmonic rev of over 7000RPM. The scavaging effect doesn't produce enough exhaust flow at the 6000RPM to even need a 4-1 design.The KA with stock cam position only makes peek power at 5600RPM and slightly retarding cams will probably only make additional power too 6000RPM. So why would you need a 4-1 if it doesn't use enough exhaust flow at that RPM?

[3dKa24]

I know all this, Im just trying to see why 4-1 is so inefficient with the KA when the diff between these header types is their primary's diameter and the collector diameter and obviously 4-2-1 step down differently. But in effect a 4-1 will only make peak TQ occur later in the power band when combined with longer breathing cams, bored TB, Short ram, honed Intake mani this seems like a good alternative. Also from the dynos Seems like 4-2-1 has a dead upper end that a stock KA peaks at 3K and starts falling flat after 4600 til redline thats almost 2k rpm's with no apperant push. Thats when the alternative a 4-1 style theoretically helps peak TQ occur later so maybe were talking it peaks at 4K and its powerband will last till 5.6K thats only 800 rpm of downturn. I mean theoretically I have no dyno to prove but thats when my Camshafts seem to have a kick at around 4K so I believe that a 4-1 will suit my package better. Theoretically of course.

Which leads me to say this "A lot of low-end torque and not a lot in the upper range costs us horsepower in the end"
Modified by 3dKa24 at 8:22 PM 7/2/2006

[BadMojo]

I'm very tempted to try out those Brian Crower "Street" cams. I've got a 2.5" BRM exhaust, Catco high flow cat, Hotshot Header, AEM intake and a UR lightweight crank pulley (haven't put that on yet).

I've also done all the normal maintenance stuff to get the car running well...plugs, wires, cap, rotor, fuel filter. Compression checks out good.

I'd really like to add cams, the pulley and an ECU tune before fall. After all of that I'd like to get the car on the dyno. I'm not after massive power, the car is already fun to drive...just want to bump it up a notch or two.

With the above, do you think boring out the throttle body would be useful?

[Bigvinnie]

I know all this, Im just trying to see why 4-1 is so inefficient with the KA

Well first off there are a few reasons.Lets start with the example of the HOT SHOT VS. the DC sports which are both 4-2-1 design headers. Hot shot is primarilly designed for OBD1 KA's that use 240/248 cams STOCK DC Sports is a 4-2-1 designed for OBD1 KA's that use 240/248 cams STOCK Now no matter where your logic has been it still isn't making any sence to me where you get your cam combination from to power output. It's already been proven since there is increased scavaging using the 248 on the exhaust of OBD1 engines.Now the difference in primaries is that the hot shot uses much larger primaries and a 2.5" collector. DC Sports are a tad smaller and uses a 2,1/8" collector. Now beyond any theory it is proven that the DC sports and the HOTSHOTS are the top 2 headers on the market. The HOTSHOTS makes less HP due to it's larger primaries and collector, exhaust flow and pulses actually slow down in the pipe. DC sports uses a ceramic coating, and smaller collector and primaries to increase exhaust flow, by also keeping the exhaust temprature high and as you can see from the chart it has a pretty substantial torque and HP increase.So for the top 2 headers on the market DC makes relatively 8~9 HP and HOTSHOTS makes about 6~7 HP, a bit more torque than DC.

Now on any reasoning when there have been the Greddy or Megan Racing headers they simply don't make power. On average it's about 3 HP in the top end and that is about it. Shure the headers could make more power if the KA even had a strong enough power band that would ride longer to even 6500.

Considering that 3000RPM to 6000RPM is the midrange power band that is all the KA uses and is why a 4-2-1 works better and is better no matter what cam assortment you claim would work to produce better numbers. It's been proven on OBD1's....

[Bigvinnie]

With the above, do you think boring out the throttle body would be useful?

It would be very effective at increasing high end power. Don't make the bore too large as it will effect swirl. I wouldn't exceed a bore passed 62mm.

[3dKa24]

Youd definately get a nice bump esp. if you get those Stage 2 cams. Even if you dont get cams, opening up your TB should make the your throttle more responsive, because you are effectivly getting more throttle opening for a given movement of your foot