2014 Vette specs released.

[Hijacker]

I agree (with the possible exception of the 370Z). But with Toyota preparing to re-launch the Supra, which has been suggested to have GT-R-like performance for $20K less, perhaps Nissan will soon wake up from their fog.

We thought the same thing when the Toyaburu came out. Nissan still didn't take notice.

[float_6969]

It sounds like a bargain to me! I wonder how it compares to the MacLaren? *Heads to Google*

[gwoods]

You pretty much confirmed my assertion, not that there's anything wrong with that. Personally, I'd be concerned about owning a technological terror GT-R after the warranty expires, plus the lack of a 3rd pedal is a deal killer.
.

The GTR is faster in any situation and has a back seat. There are three 2009 GTR's one with 28k miles on Autotrader with asking prices in the high 50k range. There are also 980 Z06 Corvettes for under 60k on Autotrader. At 60k either would be a better choice for me than the Stingray. Although honestly I would never buy one new or ever 1 year old. 2 seat cars are not practical for my house so it would have to be cheap/old enough to be a weekend toy.

In my Nissan/Infiniti experience reliability is fantastic. I put 127k miles on my G35 sedan, at least 10 trackdays, at least 30 nights at the dragstrip. I wore out the front hubs at 80k/100k and I had a cam position sensor fail all of which I fixed myself for under $500. Prior to that I ran the wheels off a 2001 Nissan Altima GXE Limited.

A car that cost 60k is going to need to be my daily driver. As much as I enjoy rowing the gears myself for day to day driving a responsive automatic with paddles is my preference. As a service manager I put over 100k miles on a Toyota truck with a 5spd and got that out of my system. Daily drivers are automatics, weekend toys are manual.

I'm turning wrenches on my 1965 CJ-5 right now (4spd manual). When I am finished with it and we have moved I will buy a used sports car that must be a manual transmission. I am 99% sure my 5th car will be a 996 911 convertible, however I also am looking at C5 Z06's my budget is around 20k and both are in that range.

You can get a 1999 Ferrari F355 Spider with 19k miles on it for under 60k

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale ... x=19&Log=0

[flohtingPoint]

You pretty much confirmed my assertion, not that there's anything wrong with that. Personally, I'd be concerned about owning a technological terror GT-R after the warranty expires, plus the lack of a 3rd pedal is a deal killer.
.

The GTR is faster in any situation and has a back seat. There are three 2009 GTR's one with 28k miles on Autotrader with asking prices in the high 50k range. There are also 980 Z06 Corvettes for under 60k on Autotrader. At 60k either would be a better choice for me than the Stingray. Although honestly I would never buy one new or ever 1 year old. 2 seat cars are not practical for my house so it would have to be cheap/old enough to be a weekend toy.

In my Nissan/Infiniti experience reliability is fantastic. I put 127k miles on my G35 sedan, at least 10 trackdays, at least 30 nights at the dragstrip. I wore out the front hubs at 80k/100k and I had a cam position sensor fail all of which I fixed myself for under $500. Prior to that I ran the wheels off a 2001 Nissan Altima GXE Limited.

A car that cost 60k is going to need to be my daily driver. As much as I enjoy rowing the gears myself for day to day driving a responsive automatic with paddles is my preference. As a service manager I put over 100k miles on a Toyota truck with a 5spd and got that out of my system. Daily drivers are automatics, weekend toys are manual.

I'm turning wrenches on my 1965 CJ-5 right now (4spd manual). When I am finished with it and we have moved I will buy a used sports car that must be a manual transmission. I am 99% sure my 5th car will be a 996 911 convertible, however I also am looking at C5 Z06's my budget is around 20k and both are in that range.

You can get a 1999 Ferrari F355 Spider with 19k miles on it for under 60k

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale ... x=19&Log=0

GTR's
Porsche's
Ferrari's
Corvette's

The first three break regularly, they also break the bank when they break (it's an extra fun double-fail). Vettes, they very rarely have issues and when they do, it's cheap GM stuff.

Look, I stress the hell out of my 15 year old car, look at the friction circles I posted. I also always carry more than myself driving the car, most of the time it is at least two people, if not three drivers per event. Here is the list of things I've had issues with:

-LCA tq specs from GM are not good enough for proper tires (ie: Hoosier A6's). We yanked both LCA's loose and lost camber up front at the DC Pro Solo. When we put the car back up on the rack after the event weekend was over, we were at 1.9 deg instead of 2.7. We corrected it and tightened the bolt using a metre long breaker bar. Has not come loose.

-Endlinks are plastic. GM has since updated this and created metal endlinks which cost very little and are a legal SCCA update.

-Motor runs hot, so you have to turn on the AC (to get the extra fan going), which leads to you sitting in your car in comfort while cooling down the vehicle.

Thats it... We beat the balls off the car and it keeps running like a champion (quite literally too, this car so far has won three Pro Solos and two National Tours). You cannot say that about the other three cars you listed, and fixing them would cost quite a bit of coin. No thank you...

The car is just total bliss to drive at the limit, especially with proper tires (ones that dont make any noise =P).

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iHi0WMglP0[/youtube]

[AZhitman]

The first three break regularly, they also break the bank when they break (it's an extra fun double-fail). Vettes, they very rarely have issues and when they do, it's cheap GM stuff.

Have fun with those $3K+ tuneups on the "faux exotics."

[AZhitman]

-Motor runs hot, so you have to turn on the AC (to get the extra fan going), which leads to you sitting in your car in comfort while cooling down the vehicle.

I'd be surprised if this actually "cools" the coolant - sounds like a recipe for heat-soaking the condenser, then the radiator. There's a simple mod to make both fans kick on, and the Vette responds real well to proper ducting and more efficient fans (three upgrades I did to mine almost as soon as I bought it).

[Bubba1]

[quote="gwoods"]
You can get a 1999 Ferrari F355 Spider with 19k miles on it for under 60k [quote="gwoods"]

So what? My neighbor just bought a new loaded 2013 Corvette grand sport this week, race package, extended warranty, 1 yr on star+ satellite radio subscriptions and paid well under $60K. Not only does that C6 blow the doors off that old 355 in pretty much every category including your beloved 0-60, in just 11,000 miles when it comes time to do a 30K service on that 355, you'll be spending over $15K just for the service.

[flohtingPoint]

-Motor runs hot, so you have to turn on the AC (to get the extra fan going), which leads to you sitting in your car in comfort while cooling down the vehicle.

I'd be surprised if this actually "cools" the coolant - sounds like a recipe for heat-soaking the condenser, then the radiator. There's a simple mod to make both fans kick on, and the Vette responds real well to proper ducting and more efficient fans (three upgrades I did to mine almost as soon as I bought it).

Unfortunately, in Stock class we're not allowed to make such modifications =(

Yea, the moment we come off course, the AC goes on and once we park back in grid, the hood goes up and the car gets left running. We pop the AC on to get the extra fan running to help circulate air. The coolant from a run gets to about 220-230F and will drop back down to 195-200 by doing the AC/hood-up process. Then when we get finished running for the day, we leave the car on in the same manner to get the oil temp back down to something reasonable.



The biggest reason we worry about the coolant temp, outside of the fear of overheating, is that the Vette, when exposed to high temps for extended periods of time, will go into a low-octane fuel table and it will run like crap. When we're out at Lincoln Air Park in Nebraska for the National Championships, we want every horse from the ranch to be galloping.

[Looneybomber]

-Endlinks are plastic. GM has since updated this and created metal endlinks which cost very little and are a legal SCCA update.

I ran into a guy a few years ago when I parked my black s2000 next to a black C5 and my (now ex) wife tried to get into his car instead of mine. Well he happend to come out of the store just as she was getting in his car. That struck up a long conversation about things and he mentioned how he melted 3 or 4 end links from his track days. I thought he was just BS'in me.

[flohtingPoint]

-Endlinks are plastic. GM has since updated this and created metal endlinks which cost very little and are a legal SCCA update.

I ran into a guy a few years ago when I parked my black s2000 next to a black C5 and my (now ex) wife tried to get into his car instead of mine. Well he happend to come out of the store just as she was getting in his car. That struck up a long conversation about things and he mentioned how he melted 3 or 4 end links from his track days. I thought he was just BS'in me.

Melted?!?!? I would be skeptical about that, but broken for sure. With a 33mm solid front swaybar, I snapped em fairly easily. But yea, GM has updated these quite some time ago and the new metal design has superseded the plastic junk =)

[Dittoz7]

So the moral of the story....Buy a ZR-1?

[gwoods]

So the moral of the story....Buy a ZR-1?

or a 355 spider

@Bubba... so what ... I didn't know is the Grand Sport is fast!

Heres a question, is Chevy going to do a redesign on all other vette flavors? We have a Stingray that looks nothing like the old Vette. So I would imagine a Stingray body ZR-1 is coming.

[flohtingPoint]

@Bubba... so what ... I didn't know is the Grand Sport is fast!

Heres a question, is Chevy going to do a redesign on all other vette flavors? We have a Stingray that looks nothing like the old Vette. So I would imagine a Stingray body ZR-1 is coming.

In terms of motor, Grand Sports are no different than base model Vettes. "Grand Sport" is just a nice word that GM came up with that sounds better than Z51. It's a revised suspension package with a few other nick-nacks, but same hp as base.

It's the C7, so yes, the car, and all badge levels of it will be redesigned and not look like a C6.

[Looneybomber]

Melted?!?!? I would be skeptical about that, but broken for sure. With a 33mm solid front swaybar, I snapped em fairly easily. But yea, GM has updated these quite some time ago and the new metal design has superseded the plastic junk =)

Yeah, It's been a while since we had taht conversation, and I was remembering "tie rod ends", which doesn't make sense, since you can't melt metal. So I interpolated he meant tie rod end links since those are plastic. Are there other bits around the tie rods that could melt on a vette? I had forgotten all about that conversation till this thread.

Plus this would'a been on a C6. All he did was track/race his car, and drive it on weekends (met him at a liquor store on a Sat night). Each year, he'd trade it in for a new one that way he wouldn't have to do any maintenance.

[AZhitman]

Unfortunately, in Stock class we're not allowed to make such modifications =(

Yea, the moment we come off course, the AC goes on and once we park back in grid, the hood goes up and the car gets left running. We pop the AC on to get the extra fan running to help circulate air.

I'm aware of the how and the why, I just can't believe the rules wouldn't allow a simple wiring fix to address a design shortcoming.

Is someone wandering around checking to see if both fans are on "high?"

[AZhitman]

So I interpolated he meant tie rod end links since those are plastic. Are there other bits around the tie rods that could melt on a vette?

Nope. Just the sway bar endlinks.

I replaced mine with beefy aluminum heim-jointed units less than a week after I got the car.

[flohtingPoint]

By the time the C6 rolled around, GM had long updated the sway endlinks (I have an early C5). I've never melted anything on my car, cant imagine what he was saying.

[flohtingPoint]

Unfortunately, in Stock class we're not allowed to make such modifications =(

Yea, the moment we come off course, the AC goes on and once we park back in grid, the hood goes up and the car gets left running. We pop the AC on to get the extra fan running to help circulate air.

I'm aware of the how and the why, I just can't believe the rules wouldn't allow a simple wiring fix to address a design shortcoming.

Is someone wandering around checking to see if both fans are on "high?"

Rules outside of weight (and weight is only for mod/prep classes) is governed completely by the competitors. There is a big spot-check at the National Championship for [insert random item here], but the rest of the time its up to your fellow competitors to make sure you're not breaking any rules. When we get done with all our runs, the cars go back to grid for impound, where we leave the doors unlocked, hood/trunk up for everyone to inspect to make sure we're not cheating. Nitpicky, yes, but protestable none the less, and if it means losing out on two A6's (value 700 dollars), nobody would chance it.

I wont have to worry about stuff like that come 2015. The SCCA is getting rid of stock and replacing it with something called "street" where all the classes are like "stock" for the most part, except you have to drive on 200 treadwear tires or above. I go to Walmart on street tires, I dont compete on them =)

[Bubba1]

@Bubba... so what ... I didn't know is the Grand Sport is fast!

Fast is a relative term. The grand Sport my neighbor just bought is 436 hp stock. Faster than most cars the owner will encounter on a daily basis.. But when you factor in that it costs less than your Jaaaaaaag, (or a Ferrari) to buy, costs considerably less to repair, has a better reliability record, it handles as well if not better, plus it holds its value waaayy better, the fact that it's one or two ticks slower 0-60 in an automag article seems less significant when viewing the bigger picture.

[gwoods]

I bought my Jaggggg one year old with 14,538 miles on it for about 45k, now new yeah it was a tad over 72k but I don't normally buy new cars for this exact reason.

The difference in 0-60 can be tire or surface.... my car is reviewed to 0-60 in 4.2 seconds on the Dunlop Sport Maxx that won't take full throttle in 1st or 2nd. Before I had the car for a month it had Michelin Pilot Super Sports installed. I can now use full throttle in 1st above 30 mph.

[gwoods]

Unfortunately, in Stock class we're not allowed to make such modifications =(

Yea, the moment we come off course, the AC goes on and once we park back in grid, the hood goes up and the car gets left running. We pop the AC on to get the extra fan running to help circulate air.

I'm aware of the how and the why, I just can't believe the rules wouldn't allow a simple wiring fix to address a design shortcoming.

Is someone wandering around checking to see if both fans are on "high?"

How many CFM's does that factory fan move? On my Hemi Ram I removed the clutch fan and installed a junk yard fan from a Mercury Sable wagon. It moves 4000 cfm on the high side and 2000 cfm on the low side.

I wired it to come on the low side with ignition
High side was on a thermostatic switch (never got that hot)
High side was also on a toggle inside the cab so I could rapidly cool the truck at the track

You might look at swapping in a better efan and have it come on all the time low side like my design.

[Bubba1]

I bought my Jaggggg one year old with 14,538 miles on it for about 45k, now new yeah it was a tad over 72k but I don't normally buy new cars for this exact reason.

The difference in 0-60 can be tire or surface.... my car is reviewed to 0-60 in 4.2 seconds on the Dunlop Sport Maxx that won't take full throttle in 1st or 2nd. Before I had the car for a month it had Michelin Pilot Super Sports installed. I can now use full throttle in 1st above 30 mph.

That's very wise, as Jags are among the faster depreciating new cars you can buy. (I believe the S class Mercedes depreciates even faster) But since a new Corvette depreciates significantly more slowly than the car you bought for yourself, doesn't that suggest that the Corvette might not be as overpriced as you assert?

The difference in 0-60 can be tire or surface.... my car is reviewed to 0-60 in 4.2 seconds on the Dunlop Sport Maxx that won't take full throttle in 1st or 2nd. Before I had the car for a month it had Michelin Pilot Super Sports installed. I can now use full throttle in 1st above 30 mph.

And this supports my point. Since you recognize that 0-60 times can vary significantly due to different factors, (that's in addition to the two you mentioned) why place so much emphasis on it?

[gwoods]

Sure its a bargin I suppose.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Track times are great and I do know how to drive but 0-60 I use that every day. So my number 1 shopping point for a car is how fast can I get away from one light to sit at the next.

I see things COMPLETELY the other way around. I don't spend all day on a track, so ACCELERATION is meaningless. I can't make use of it on public streets without being an a**. I CAN benefit from good handling, a communicative chassis, good brakes, good steering (what I wouldn't give for a faster-ratio steering rack!), an excellent driving position, and a transmission that does what I need/tell it to. I LOVE power, don't get me wrong. But if I had to choose between ONLY power and ONLY handling...handling all the way. I'd rather have them both. They support each other.

[gwoods]

BRZ is the car for you then MOD

[float_6969]

LOL, that was my thought exactly. I'll take power, ie; old muscle cars. There is a reason people STILL like them. They handle terrible, the brakes are death defying, but MAN are they fun to drive!

I'll take power

[Looneybomber]

[old grandma talk]
Hey I love power, handling, performance, etc... but for me, everyday, I use MPG! It might be because I am loafing around in a 12y/o explorer sport with worn out suspension, but I'm moving around like I am driving miss Daisy.

Put me behind the wheel of a Z06 and I'm sure I'll drive a little quicker/harder on a daily basis, but on a normal day, I'd probably use about 1/8 of the vette's potential. On the track, I'd probably use 2/3. The car's handling potential greatly exceeds my driving potential. Sure I can floor it and use all 450hp, but setting up for turns, turning, and exiting...?

So, that said, the C6 427 vert would be my preferred car. Lots of HP, but a tiny bit of performance lost due to being a vert...but I would enjoy the car a lot more as a weekend toy!
[/old grandma talk]

I'll take power

I'll see your power, and raise you 5 MPGs.

[AZhitman]

My C5 got close to 30mpg.

</vette fanboi>

[Looneybomber]

Fast is a relative term. The grand Sport my neighbor just bought is 436 hp stock. Faster than most cars the owner will encounter on a daily basis.. But when you factor in that it costs less than your Jaaaaaaag, (or a Ferrari) to buy, costs considerably less to repair, has a better reliability record, it handles as well if not better, plus it holds its value waaayy better, the fact that it's one or two ticks slower 0-60 in an automag article seems less significant when viewing the bigger picture.

Here's where I will side with Gwoods. Who normally drives vettes (not for track purposes)? Middle aged to old men, or young D-Bags. Who drives Jags (nice ones, not old crappy ones)? Middle aged single men with their sights on women a decade younger than them. Because they know that a Jag will get them more tail than a vette.

So I know everyone is bagging on Gwoods since the vette is a better performance value, but there are other aspects to an XK then just track performance.

[gwoods]

See I could care less about the price of gas or how many mpg I get. Our Sequoia gets 13.7 mpg and my Jag usually breaks the 14 mpg point unless I have a particually bad week and drive it in anger and then well its possible to get 12 mpg out of 16 gallons of premium.

I like handling too don't get me wrong but how many times are you going to take that left or right turn at the limits of a Stingray on the street?

How many track days did you attend last year? I didn't do a single one and I only made it to the drag strip once.

So performance I can use on the street is acceleration. Not just leaving a light but when your already moving and a hole opens in traffic if you have a car that can accelerate you can get into that hole and get around PapaSmurf metal melissa guy who has a small weiner and a huge truck.

In my case I didn't give up much in the way of handling for acceleration. .88 G on a 200 foot skid pad and 61.5 mph lane change 70-0 mph braking takes 160 feet 60-0 braking take 109 feet and motor trends figure 8 took 25.9 seconds @ .74G average.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sed ... ewall.html

VS the Corvette Grand Sport braking of 60-0 mph in 101 feet and the same Motor Trend figure 8 in 23.7 seconds @.82G average. lateral acceleration was 1.09 G

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/cou ... ewall.html

Here is the two cars reviewed next to each other I need the back seat and the performace is comparible especially with a tire swap on the Jag. The Grand Sport would not hit over a G on a skidpad without the F1 Supercar tires.

I guess what I'm trying to say is if your going to make a 2 passenger sports car it needs to be crazy fast or I'm going to buy a sedan with very similar performance. At 50k the Stingray is a good deal but the limited seating and similar performance to the E63, s65, S7, S6 XFSC, XFR, CTS-V which don't have the limits of the Vette make it unappealing to me.