200sx hybrid project - RB25det with full suspension and brake upgrades (56k=NO)

[S12_hybrid]

Let me start by saying, I know this doesnt classify as a Z car, but where else WOULD it classify? I associate myself with the older car crowd (20+ year old chassis) and have personally owned a 1988 300zx NA (Wicked little car).

Anyways, this has been my project of the last two summers.. It has consumed my every day and night. Please feel free to ask questions.

















I hit some major roadblocks with chassis work. I am by no means a body man, and barely have 3 months of mig experience under my belt (without shielding gas).. I will let the pictures do the talking.

I am doing a toad conversion on the front end using grand prix headlights. In this picture it shows how I am attempting to blend the headlight panels into the hood.



I re-enforced the bottom of the headlight panels with strips of metal, and made certain the body fill penetrated all the way through so that there was a good, solid base to work with. The hood now feels like one piece, and it very very strong.



Here is the 240 subframe which we pulled off the 240 parts car. We swapped 300zx (Z32) 5 bolt hubs onto it.. Having some trouble getting the axles back on, and my friend broke one of the CV boots, so they will need servicing.



Hub close up/differences.



We drilled through the rear crossmember (trunk member) and passed all thread through it. This is used to sling the 2 rear bushings of the 240 suspension assembly. This picture is deceptive.. Literally about 12 hours of work is all on that one beam.. Measurements, drilling, re-drilling, adjustments, more measurements... Sigh...



This greddy intake manifold will simplify the intake ducting. It is a work of art, and I paid out the nose for it. It makes the engine look killer though.



The bane of every engine swapper's existence: The wiring. This is the soon to be blended lower engine harness. I am using the 200sx starter relay, oil pressure sensor clip, alternator plugs, and excitation (ignition) wire.



Sideways engine mount. I am using the 240sx crossmember, but it needs to be drilled out to work as it is longer than the 200sx member. The 240sx crossmember MUST be used with these mounts as the tabs use the slope on the upright bits as a support, and on the 200sx one there is too much torque applied to it. It would make sense if you saw them side by side. I promise.



240sx coupe dash cluster. With digital display and Heads Up Display. I am using this because it accepts a digital speedometer signal, and just generally looks cool. Fitment isnt that great though.. I can do better.



Left = stock RB25det throttle bodyRight = VH45DE throttle body (infiniti Q45) it bolts right up to the greddy intake plenum



90mm of pure throttle. It has a slide throttle which accelerates throttle response in the upper power ranges. Pretty cool stuff. TPS sensors are NOT interchangeable (they are if you have a series 1 Rb25det, or RB20det) so I must manually wire the TB (only 3 wires).



Size it up. I can fit my arm inside the plenum.. As can a grapefruit.



The floor of the trunk. We must weld these shock towers in place due to the fact that the 240sx uses a shock assembly, and not an independant spring and shock. This is gonna be really really tough.



I reinforced the floor because I wasnt happy with the 1/8" thick steel supporting the entire subframe.



I messed this one up. Those are actually the FRONT 240sx calipers, along side the rear rotors.. The shiny bits are the 300zx rear rotors and calipers. They are HUGE. I have the e-brake assembly on order. The ebrake uses a shoe type brake INSIDE the rotor hat to prevent rotor warping.. It's quite intricate (and expensive).. This is why I need that brake bias valve.



Left = 1992 maxima caliperRight = 1989 240sx caliperNot a whole lot of difference here, but I couldnt afford 300zx calipers at this time, and I will probably be getting F50 brembos once I have saved up enough. I will be using altima rotors. I am sticking with 4 bolt in the front.



Much larger pad surface on these calipers.



Custom steering wheel. I welded a 240sx spline to it. :w00t:



The piece of 240sx transmission tunnel we need to use. The aftermarket mounts we have dont even come close to fitting the 200sx bolt holes. AND the 200sx tunnel is too narrow (mounts are too fat).. More chassis modifications.



I have some pictures of the test fit, but nothing very recent.. We have to lift the car into the air and put it ONTO the engine, but that there are no rear wheels we cant really move the car around.

UPDATES! I dont have picture of my front suspension, but I totalled the cost for it alone, and it's in the area of 1800$.. I shat my pants after I counted...

Here we go:



Properly toed wheels thanks to fully adjustable S13 tie rods, bolted to an S12 steering rack which sits atop an S13 crossmember. Wheels are RTX unknowns, 17x7 with a fwd offset. I've purchased 1/2 wheel spacers to compensate.



Old VS new, S12 tie rod on left, Brand new BING's fully adjustable tie rod on right, picture taken without the tie rod end.



Fuel pumps. Walbro is sitting inside cage (not tied down yet), S12 is on left. As you can see, the trunk had water sitting in it and has lots of surface rust.. Nothing a brillo pad + tremclad cant fix.



Ah yes the EPIC hole in the transmission tunnel. Basically what I am doing is welding in a piece of S13 tunnel to accomodate the transmission. This is partly due to how close I am mouting it to the firewall.



Me welding the rusty spots on the frame with patches.



To position the rear shocks, we had to make reference to the factory mounting locations. Essentially we built a jig which could be placed on the shocktower. It's tip would reference to very top and dead center of where the coilover need sit. We used an S13 with factory mounting locations: it was conveniently located right next to the S12.



The car.



It's neighbour.



































STARTUP!

Video quality isnt the best, it was a cell phone..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsxsbGb7iLY

The sudden "Whoa whoa stop it" and discussion on the metal shavings is no cause to be worried. It was the cam angle sensor - somehow it was rubbing against the cam gear bolts.. I took it off, cleaned it up and its fine..

I'm the guy in the red shirt whos running around.. My favorite line "Lets go get beers, guys".

Engine is messy with wires and hoses and **** like that, but this is of course still a work in progress.

Wow.. That was tiring.

-Dan

[evildky]

AWESOME PORJECT! RB in an S12!? wow I've aften dreamed of VG30ET but wow!and I hope thats tempered rod you used to mount your IRS, and some crossbracing for those rear strut towers might be a good idea

[S12_hybrid]

I've added a 1.5 inch square tube crossbar and plan on doing a full trunk bracing in the future - I just dont have the talent or money at the moment.

As for the IRS supporting rods they are tempered.. By me with a torch...

Eventually I am going to gut the trunk and install a fuel cell and latticework. I didnt like having to mount it like that but talent, time, a money were an issue.

Thanks for the feedback, i'll get some 1/4 mile times as soon as it hits the track.. I would be very lucky to crack the 12s; but I am shooting for low 13's.

-Dan

[FoxFire]

omfg awesome s12



i like the s13/300zx conversion partand the uniqueness of it

but... why an rb25?theres no replacement for displacement

rb weighs more, costs more, sits higher/farther foward, requires 97 octane ron, has limited american support and makes less TQ then a vg30et stock for stock and even less tq when boostedrb = te gayness

ps you shoulda posted this in the s13/s14/s15 forums s12 is NOT a classic z

[Racinjitter]

but... why an rb25?theres no replacement for displacement

rb weighs more, costs more, sits higher/farther foward, requires 97 octane ron, has limited american support and makes less TQ then a vg30et stock for stock and even less tq when boostedrb = te gayness

ps you shoulda posted this in the s13/s14/s15 forums s12 is NOT a classic z

Have you ever tried to pur a VG30ET into a s12? I had one years ago, and pretty much everything was fabbed up to work, albeit not very well either. Heat soak was horrible and clearance issues up the wazoo. Granted it did move like a bat out of hell.

BTW what is 97ron equal to here in the states? like 89 IIRC? Here in Mi we have 85, 87, 89, 91, 92, 93, 94, 100, 104, 110 octane redily available at the pumps. and a vg30et requires premium gasoline 91+, wait the non turbo requires midgrade 89.

[S12_hybrid]

omfg awesome s12



i like the s13/300zx conversion partand the uniqueness of it

but... why an rb25?theres no replacement for displacement

rb weighs more, costs more, sits higher/farther foward, requires 97 octane ron, has limited american support and makes less TQ then a vg30et stock for stock and even less tq when boostedrb = te gayness

ps you shoulda posted this in the s13/s14/s15 forums s12 is NOT a classic z

This may be an S chassis, but do you really think the S13/14/15 guys give a damn? Nope. Thought you guys of all people might appreciate an older car - I guess I was wrong about you.

And with regards to the motor choice the RB DOES have huge aftermarket support - but you're right NOT in North America. I am fine with this.

Why did I choose an inline 6? Aside from the fact that they are among the most inherently balanced engine layout around I enjoy the ease of serviceability. On a V engine you've got 2 separate heads, 2 separate exhaust manifolds (AND That damned crossover), a very complex intake manifold with twice as many gaskets, and side to side space is far far more limited.. Any mechanic will tell you that aside from belts and checking timing that the sides of the engine should always be more accessible. And no this was not influenced by a certain RB26 in a certain '67 Mustang.

And guess what? I've got at least 2" of space in front of my engine - plenty of space to replace belts and remove the crank pulley etc.

As for the displacement argument - thats true. But the VG is not renowed for its revability and high power levels. Guess which line of motors are? True this is only a 2.5.. But plans for the future include a RB30e block with the RB25det head mated to it - to produce an RB30det..

I could have swapped an SR or a KA-T into this within a few weeks and been done with it - but in my opinion that would just be lining up with the rest of the crowd..

I suggest you buy an S12 and put the coveted VG30et into it, and i'll see you at the track - we'll see where success has placed it's bountiful speed.

-Dan

[FoxFire]

im not talking ****... i was just wondering why not the easiest route

for 2.5L its sick and i agree i-6 engine are the most balnced engine everi happen to LOVE the 7mgte and most bmw motors... but the rb's sound best

s13-15 owners respect these old cars, IF they know what they are, but,most have never seen one ive gone with my s12 to the pavillions car show in AZ and had a CROWD of 240 guys around it

people just dont understand the vg30'si was just reading about a guy that got 700 whp on a stock n/a vg30e bottom end , antother guy, is pushing 1100 whp with stock crankjason84na2t on the z31perfomance.com has been pushing 450 whp on a stock bottom end n/a for 15k miles as have many others

i OWN an 87 SE s12 which came vg30e from factory i have 1.5 inch clearance from hood and ~9 inch from radiator to crank pully.



i also own an s13 with a vg30et going into it.heres the writeup to the swap zerothread?id=260485

i gotta say great job... its a sick swap and it runs... what kinda of power you going for to the wheels

[evildky]

I gotta say, after years of wrenching on L6's the VG's are a HUGE PITA! I think nissan made them just to rack up the labor charges

[NSR_s30]

Awesome project!!!!!!!! I'm eyeballing a S12 coupe around here as a new project. I'm thinking if I get it I want to go CA18DET, as it bolts right in with no major modifications.

[nsrZ32]

Awesome project!!!!

[Mr1der]

holy ****.

more details on the rear end conversion please.

[nicochama]

hello from fellow club-s12er. hehe hows that project going btw?

[TKE SigO 258]

This may be an S chassis, but do you really think the S13/14/15 guys give a damn? Nope. Thought you guys of all people might appreciate an older car - I guess I was wrong about you.

Hey now. Us 240 owners love s12's.

Looks very nice. Can't wait for the final product!

[jEzTeR]

Cool project!

Keep us updated.

[BoostFab]

woow nice project. talking about 2400lb car

everything looks good, but one thing concerns me is the rear bolts that holds up the rear subframe; i think you should weld a wide+think plate to the frame of the trunk and pass down a large bolt with head and weld the bolt down to the plate to avoid it from loosen as there will be lots of torque from that rear end on the rb25. i'm affraid your rear subframe dropping on a highway. the trunk seems brittle, weak from rust??

[S12_hybrid]

Hi guys. So the car has been done for quite some time now..

It made a 6000km journey COMPLETELY untested all the way across canada. Had horrible fuel consumption, but glorious speed the whole way through.

The brakes on this car are completely nuts. There is a face-bending amount of stopping power. I need to get R compound tires in order to exercise them to their full potential, but on a warm summer day I could definetly feel it.

This summer I hope to hit up a few autocross comps, I will be certain to post THOSE and a BURNOUT video as well..







and a quick little video of it struggling in a cold start:(No its not a blown headgasket, its just very cold in canada)

http://smg.photobucket.com/alb...3.flv

Now my task is to upgrade the cooling system and repair the massive rats nest of wiring and vacuum lines. Also, perhaps a HX35 holset turbo and a standalone efi system?? Me likey...

Merry Christmas!

-Dan

Edit: Video fixed.
Modified by S12_hybrid at 12:07 AM 1/2/2008

[NSR_s30]

Video doesn't work, but it's awesome to hear that car is done. I'm really interested in hearing it.