200hp NA?

[sykane]

I was wondering if it was possible to get a 200 whp out of a 240 without a turbo or nos.Im guessing it would have to be a de for this to even have a chance.Is it even possible? I would want it to be a daily driver so it cant have such high compression that it needs racing gas or anything like that. If 200whp isnt possible then do you think 200 at the crank is a more realistic goal?

Thanks

[Exar-Kun]

you can do it, it's the same with anything, it just takes money.

I have 163rwhp right now, no internal mods...so another 30hp or so isnt too much out of range...

I suppose if i had larger injectors, a larger MAF, high comp pistons, cams, and extrude honed the intake manifold(s) it would get me around that number, last time I talked to JWT, they said if I did cams and cam gears, ecu and dynot uned it, I could see about 175-180hp...without the higher compresson pistons and honing, etc.

I may or may not go that route, since I wnat to go turbo. But the JWT cams with cam gears will work wlel with a turbo since you can adjust their timing.. we'll see.

also, this has been discussed in finum on these boards, search around, theres a pretty comprehensive listing of what it takes around here somewhere..-chet

[[Zero-S]]

You know what chet...I think it'd be kinda fun to build a 200rwhp ka...

I could start by pulling my old engine...

[Checkered-Member]

200 whp is very easy

you will need the following

Intake -> bigger TB -> ported intake manifold -> aggressive cams, valve job, head P&P ->10.5 compression pistons + bored block -> headers, cat-back

Optional:A balance will be helpful although not necessaryRemove emissionsLight weight Under-drive pulleyupgraded ignition: wires, plugs, amplifier, higher amp battery

[Tsukai240]

that is my perfered set up. i wouldn't mind a little extra bore to up the disp. to 2.5/6 liter. but wouldn't slaping on a turbo be more bang for the buck?

[[Zero-S]]

what like build a full na setup, then go turbo? No.

You would have to again lower your compression (IE no more 11.1:1 cr pistons...which were a pretty heavy investment to begin with), that expensive header you bought to milk your na ka would go...etc...

[Checkered-Member]

but wouldn't slaping on a turbo be more bang for the buck?

YES it is, I did research for about a year, my conclusion

If i went NA I would get a maximum of 220hp and spent a minimum of 5KTurbo I would get a minimum 240hp and spend an max of 5k

[Tsukai240]

what about the maintenence of a turbo car? i think that would be more costly than a NA setup. correct me if i'm wrong.

[marshun]

200 whp is very easy

you will need the following

Intake -> bigger TB -> ported intake manifold -> aggressive cams, valve job, head P&P ->10.5 compression pistons + bored block -> headers, cat-back

Optional:A balance will be helpful although not necessaryRemove emissionsLight weight Under-drive pulleyupgraded ignition: wires, plugs, amplifier, higher amp battery

headers and a catback? header and custom exhaust is more like it.

and this engine would get a higher compression and possible an overbore. and after gettin all the good stuff you'd prolly need to get **** blue printed and balanced. you dont want **** flying apart. then to add other stuff you'll prolly need rocker arm protection and new valves.

its allot of money either way. is there a reason you've ruled out the turbo?

[sykane]

I was looking at going NA because this would be my daily driver. I didnt realize how expensive it would be compared to a turbo setup. How much more matience would a turbo setup require compared to a NA setup?I mean if turbo offers more bang for the buck and i am able to make a daily driver relible setup then i see no reason i shouldnt go turbo

[Exar-Kun]

A properly chosen, installed and designed turbo setup requires minimal maintenence over a N?A setup.

GOod quality synthetic oil(mobil 1, redline, motul) are needed in both built N/A and turbo applications.

to be hoenst, the kind of buldup a 200hp naka would require would hardly be "Streetable", it would probalby be pretty nasty, to be honest. a turbo setup jsut requires a bit more thought, and some very thorough maintenence checks(that you should be doing regardless)-chet

[SilviaS14KA24DE]

how nasty? not being a smart ***, but seriously, I would like to know pros and cons of both. NO biases please

[[Zero-S]]

Nasty as in omfg this thing has power you can feel right off the line. Nasty as in the clutch doesn't give. Nasty as in its extremely loud.

[SilviaS14KA24DE]

haha hell i'd be interested in na ka if i got 180 rwhp. that'd be a HUGE performance upgrade already.

[180fan]

the use of the word "nasty" makes it sound ever so scandelous! ha ha ha

[SilviaS14KA24DE]

LOL. I would think that it'd be SWEET with all those upgrades to the KA. Not nasty. or NaStAAAAAAY

[Exar-Kun]

drive my car, then tell me how you feel. Most people that drive it go "dude...it aint right"...kazama engine mounts and all the other mods make it loud, a bit unbehaved(vibrations, etc) but a great car to flog around.

I think I'm going to get the cams and cam gears just to see how much more power and unruliness I get out of my car

as far as pros and cons:

NA PRO:-nice powerband, lots of 'area under the curve'-Killer sound -THe feeling of not having to use 'boost' to get good HP from a small displacement engineCON:-will never, ever be as fast as a properly modded turbo engine. forget about it.-Idle/emissions may be off when getting a cam profile for high rpm and high HP use-lots of 'odd' things, idle timing, vibrations, noises.

TUrboPRO:-boost is good, turbo sizing, turbo mods mean more HP easier later on, if everythigns done correctly-*pssssht*-300+rwhp is obtainable, allowing you to eat even the quickest street cars.CON:-Cost, its about 5k or more to do a turbo kit correctly(in every sense of the word)-COmpressor spool time (aka lag), too large a compressor(high HP) may not spool quick enough for some people-Heat issues may arise if not done properly, and requires much more attention to keep maintained and running correctly

there ya go -chet

[Ender_Zero]

someone above mentioned blueprinting. im to lazy to go and find it and quote it....anyways, i talked with the machine shop that built my 69 camaro's 406 small block, and asked them about blueprinting. he said that the ways of blueprinting are over, with the precision thats maintained in the machine shops that make aftermarket engine parts, blue printing is no longer necessary. i would think that applies with nissan parts as well. just me thinking out loud....

~ender

[[Zero-S]]

Thats just like saying pencil and paper are outdated so you should do everything on computer...but what happens if your computer crashes/virus/hand of god comes and zaps the begeesus out of it?

Better to have more than one way to do things.

[marshun]

someone above mentioned blueprinting. im to lazy to go and find it and quote it....anyways, i talked with the machine shop that built my 69 camaro's 406 small block, and asked them about blueprinting. he said that the ways of blueprinting are over, with the precision thats maintained in the machine shops that make aftermarket engine parts, blue printing is no longer necessary. i would think that applies with nissan parts as well. just me thinking out loud....

~ender

not necessarily. since we have 4 bangers the power would come from high revving. and if you have the parts weighing different amounts and theyre not the same size etc etc then yer motor would wear out prematurely.

but in a v8 wich doesnt rev as high, yeah you dont really need the blue printing.

[mackdaddy240]

that is my perfered set up. i wouldn't mind a little extra bore to up the disp. to 2.5/6 liter. but wouldn't slaping on a turbo be more bang for the buck?

Well I just bought a ka24de and tore it apart. Im sad to say that theres not much room in the cylinder wall when it comes to boring to 2.6 liter. You'll be really lucky if you managed to get any more then 2.45. which has become a problem when it comes to boring and running high compression pistons.

anybody know where to get slightly oversized pistons for a 90 ka24e?? because my block has a lil wear and I wanted to bore but havent found any pistons to fit it if I machine it.:help

[Altiman94]

2.5l is attainable and has been done in our ka's.

[masticatingcow]

2.5l is attainable and has been done in our ka's.

Yes, but through stroker kits, not overbore.

[Tsukai240]

what about destroking(2.2/0L) it in order to get the revs up(8k redline) and taking advantage of the good vaulve train in the KA.

[[Zero-S]]

And lose my torque?? No thanks.

[Indy]

In reference to "blueprinting". An engine is designed to certain specs. When it goes into production, it is impossible to produce every engine to that standard, so every spec has a tolerance it can be within. So, you can have a production engine where every spec is at the outer limits of the tolerance and it will be a 'lemon'. Conversely, you can get that 1 in a 1000 car were it is exactly to spec and it is the best car you've ever owned.

The term "blueprinting" is the process of building the engine to the original design specifications. Every gap, bolt torque, etc is exact.

The mechanic previously mentioned was correct in the fact that tolerances in modern cars are alot smaller than they were in the 60's. Is there room for inprovement? Maybe. Is it worth it? Maybe.

"Balancing" is usually included in the same sentence with "blueprinting". This is where all rotating parts are precisely balanced to reduce vibration as the revs get higher. Again, modern engines that rev higher are balanced better than the old days.

Now, what was the original question? Oh Ya, in order for you to get the power you are looking for, it will be in the high end of the rpm spectrum (as previously mentioned). A KA wasn't designed to to that. In order for it to happen, you will have to have every measurement in the engine PERFECT and have it precisely balanced so that it doesn't vibrate itself into oblivion when it gets there.

Also remember, money=speed... how fast do you want to go?

[Charlie240sxt]

ther a shop some where that has a Ka you can order with like 220hp N/A or some thing forgot the site i bet you could find it if you really wanted to but a 250whp ka-t can be be a DD if done right with no short cuts

[barrigas14]

look for the AEM stand alone kit or something...there is a thread on a forum that i found a couple days ago that got crazy hp gains on it. let me find it.

[barrigas14]

here it is...protype though

http://forum.aempower.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=8725

[Exar-Kun]

guys, its not the crank/pistons/valve train stopping the KA from making good high RPM power..its the cams and head configuration.

after talking extensively with JWT, ed (dyno tuner for american lemans series cars as well as speed worl challenge cars) and the guys at balanced performance(who do some amazing work on very, very fast cars...and have JWT's ear on pretty much anything) the KA head wont flow worth a darn past 7500rpm, regardless of porting, alrger valves, etc..it just wasnt made to flow, or does it NEED to flow that high to make power.

after talking with JWT, I'm going to install my silica+Ti valves springs and valve retainers, I had the head redone with forged steel valve guides, new valves seats, its getting JWT cams and cam gears, and a ECU shortly matched to both the cam profile and the settings of the cam gears..

it will make power to(before the drop off) 7,000rpm according to JWT, after which the head design wont allow it to flow well...

but then again, the KA makes plenty of lower-rpm power to begin with, which is why its so fun to drive and what makes it such a nice turbo and road race engine.

balalncing the engine will help vibrations and things if you plan on running 7k+rpms (say, on an etenxded road race) and things like that, but isnt necessary, the KA experiences valve float after 7500rpm, with new vavle guides, retainers, etc JWT and ed says it moves to about 7800, tops.

to be honest, I'd rather have my power a bit lower in the RPM band, and since its such a torquey engine, its got a meaty power curve, so you gets lots of pull all the time...a nice combo IMO. I'll keep everyone updated on how it works out, right now I'm doing a bit of suspension work to my car..

-chet