$2 a gallon, here we come....

[AZhitman]

This may sound like an incredibly ignorant question, but chemistry isn't my forte...

Why can't we synthsize a fuel replacement, sort of a synthetic energy source that would replace gasoline? I mean, we can manufacture synthetic oil (I know it's just the base stock) but isn't that a start?

Eager to hear Fred's thoughts on this.

[carlos_knology]

I'd venture to say that a synthetic replacement (assuming such a thing is possible) wouldn't be cost-effective.

Heck, a quart of Mobil 1 is close to $5/quart. Granted, demand for this theoretical synthetic fuel would be exponentially higher that existing demand for M1 oil, it still sounds too expensive.

[VimyJ]

You can't go to little ole Texas and drill a well 2000 ft to get a gusher. Those days are gone. All the discoveries are smaller and more remote. There isn't another Arabian Ghawar field. The cheap oil is gone.

[VimyJ]

The Alberta oil sands have 175 billion barrels of recoverable reserves using existing technology and new and more efficient methods are being developed constantly. Enough to supply NA for 100 years. Overall reserves are estimated at 1 trillion barrels. The product is called "syncrude" and its gasoline and distillates have been being used in the midwest US for years. But it isn't cheap like the stuff from Saudi used to be.

[nuQ]

the next big area of untapped oil reserves,,,the caspian sea area, with a pipeline right through afghanastan. i'll post more tomorrow, don't have my facts in front of me. the billions in contracts were put on hold when the taliban took over political control. it was in develepmont. i'll give you the companies and govt. contracts,,,,,might shock some of you!!!!! especially those thinking "pro bush, cheney"!!! and no i'm not a democrat or "lefty".........more a "truthy"!!!!! LOL be patient,,late here on the east coast!

[DAEDALUS]

Re: Hitman's question. One requirement of any fuel is that it generates (a lot) more energy than what's needed to produce it. Oil is simply an energy-rich substance, like coal, that can be easily converted to gasoline. Energy-rich liquids are so damn easy to use. Easily transported, stored, and consumed. Creating a fuel, even if possible, would require spending more energy than what the fuel would hold, and that energy would have to come from something else. It's a fundamental entropy law of thermodynamics...kind of like how an airconditioner expells more energy than the amount of cooling it gives. Beyond oil, what's left is coal, nuclear and wind/solar/geothermal. The last choice is *really* weak...how many solarcells or windmills does it take to create 300hp? Coal is dirty and limited. Nuclear power will eventually have to dominate I think at some point, perhaps not in our lifetime, but at some point. Cold fusion is a theory that I don't understand much about, but I grasp that it flies in the face of thermodynamic laws, which is probably why it hasn't been achieved yet. Will it ever be? Has it already been, but snuffed out by the oil cartel? There's a conspiracy theory!

[AZhitman]

I support nuclear power, always have, ever since I was a kid and toured several facilities.

My dad was a QC Inspector for Bechtel, and he helped build some of the US's greatest nuclear plants.

It just makes good sense. Clean, efficient, safe, and plentiful.

The damn "greenies" and hand-wringers really crippled our nuclear capabilities in the 80's and 90's. These are the same buttholes that are now clamoring for clean, efficient, safe and plentiful alternative fuel sources, when it was right in front of their faces all along.

Sad how ignorance blinds otherwise well-meaning but misguided people.

[airman]

Why can't we synthsize a fuel replacement, sort of a synthetic energy source that would replace gasoline?

Why not... Fuel cells: http://www.fuelcells.org/

Nobody can trick fundamental laws of our universe (DAEDALUS explained). May be we can make a deal with aliens?

[AZhitman]

LOL - Thanks Rob and airman for the edumacation.

Anyone ever read about flywheels as a power source for cars? Interesting stuff. Theoretically, a flywheel powered car could accelerate quicker than ANYTHING we're used to - kinda like dropping the clutch on a topfuel dragster.

[airman]

VimyJ is making a point. If Russia's oil was cheap to develop, produce and deliver it would already be in your tank. I lived for 30 years in Western Siberia, my parents worked in gas industry. How much should be poured into such project? And all must be returned with profit. It will be done eventually (we all need oil, right), but in the best case it will just slow down oil price growth for some time. But whatever is happening is for good. AZ94Q, spelling 'syberia' is funny, like spelling 'infinity' .

[DAEDALUS]

One source of engergy that intrigues me is ocean tides! They have conceptual prototypes of floating generators out in the ocean that somehow use tidal energy to spin a turbine, thus creating power. Tidal forces aren't likely to run out anymore than the moon is likley to lose its orbit. Nature has more energy than we could ever use; the problem is in capturing it efficiently and effectively. I suppose genetic engineering might help us to squeeze exponentially more oils and hydrocarbons out of plants, which may somehow be converted to usable energy.

[Sopdadope]

Wow I hadn't realized this but premium gas skyrocketed from $1.85 to $2.15 at some local pumps. I read an article in the Popular Science rag that profiled VW's development on a hybrid motor a la Insight except using diesel as opposed to gas. Engineers are optimistic they could squeeze out 90miles/gallon. If that's the case, I'll have a hybrid-powered Passat.

[driverdriver]

VW Product?

Trust me. Stay away, stay far away. My familiy has owned two (lease runs out sonn on current one). They are full of serious problems and their dealers have poor customer service. If you don't believe me check out JD Power and Consumer Reports. VW consistently ranks at the bottom.

I think a good part of our gas price problem is caused by the unrest in the Middle East by the W. Bush administration. Aligining yourself with a far right government in Israel, launching a fictitous war and subsequent occupation in Iraq and then lately the whole (still unfolding) Iraq prison brutality issue (you know its only going galvanize more hate in the Middle East against Americans and attacks) is not a good thing.

[VimyJ]

Do not take this as a political opinion but rather as an economic one: I believe the Bush administration invaded Iraq over energy in the main.

The middle east oil reserves are vital to US and global economic growth. Oil is a fungible commodity and although the US only gets about 15% of its imports from the middle east what affects supply in one area affects prices elsewhere. This is analagous to food supplies in as much as crop failures in one area of the world affect futures prices globally.

I believe the administration is attempting to take the long view regarding the middle east. The hopeful talk of a "prosperous democracy" taking root in Iraq can be interpreted as "a reliable energy source" taking root in Iraq.

In a related note, I watched an interview with Exxon CEO Lee Raymond on the Charlie Rose show last night. He said that there is no way that his company would invest anything in Iraq as long as there is the threat of civil strife.

It remains to be seen if the Bush strategy will pan out. "Black gold" pun intended.

[Need4Speed]

Vimy.....sorry that IS a political opinion!

Since you brought it up.....

LOOK What is SOOOOO wrong with the US and GW going after the bad guys that caused 911? Why does it have to be an energy conspiracy, blah, blah, blah.....I mean the bas__rds killed over 3000 people.....3000 AMERICANS!! Mabey you have forgotten....I have not!

I'm SOOOOO sick of hearing all of the aplogists say that this war is this or that....you know what this war is.....it's about PAY BACK, It's about What goes around, Comes around, It's about letting the whole world know that we don't just talk the talk....WE WALK THE WALK TOO....unlike most of the Socialist, so-called "Free" rest of the world.

Bah!....I'd like to see what Europe would have looked like if the US had not saved their AZZES twice!

Everyone likes our money and protection....and yet our sunny day friends (except UK and AUS) are the first to stab us in the back when the world is preceived against us...get a backbone!

This war is EXACTLY what it seems to be....a WAR against evil, terrible people...DEAL WITH IT!

I'm sorry but you have touched a GREAT BIG NERVE in me!

I am sure that this "conversation" is beyond the scope of this web site and I appologize to the Admins and the members for my outburst.....

ANDY

[VimyJ]

Someone please remove Need's post. Sheesh.

I posted an economic opinion. Regardless of your views, there is an economic compontent to the invasion of Iraq to a greater or lesser degree. My post was written with regard to the economic component.

[nuQ]

""""""I'm SOOOOO sick of hearing all of the aplogists say that this war is this or that....you know what this war is.....it's about PAY BACK, It's about What goes around, Comes around, It's about letting the whole world know that we don't just talk the talk....WE WALK THE WALK TOO....unlike most of the Socialist, so-called "Free" rest of the world. """"""""

funny. a country NEVER will spend billions and billions on "we walk the walk too". better look into geo-politics.

i said from the start that every that came out of the 9/11 horror made no sense and was called a "taliban" supporter!!!! could give a thousand examples, write me off-site if interested.in todays paper i was shocked (but really not), the panel investigating 9/11 stated that a higer up in the FAA crushed in his hand the actual tapes of the controllers handling the hi-jacked planes, then proceeded to cut them up into small pieces then dispose of them in multiple garbage cans!!!!!! i kid you not, this is the exact wording!!!!! check it out yourselves!!!! this is unbelievable,,,,,and there's no cover-up going on??????

[nuQ]

for those who make think our involvement has nothing to do with oil, think about this, might put things in perspective.

the caspian sea region is thought to contain the worlds third largest oil and natural gas reserves, projected reserves of more than 800 billion barrels and equivalent in natural gas. the combined reserves of the americas and europe are around 160 million. the largest reserves being in kazakhstan and azerbaijan (both of these countries are in halliburton's portfolio---yes cheney's old company and still it's largest stockowner, and cheney was on kazakhstans oil advisory board. to make a long story short (leaving out many eye-opening details!), in the mid 90's halliburton was named head contractor of a pipeline (and drilling) traveling through afghanistan. in 96 the taliban took power but wanted to let the project go forward cause it would net them over 100 million a year. the big oil comp. unocal needed the state dept. to officially recognize the taliban govt. unocal even flew taliban officials to their offices in sugarland tx and to meetings w/ the state dept. in dec. 97. many womens groups and human rights groups protested unocal for being in bed with a regime like the fundamentalist taliban, but the final nail in the coffin was the 98 bombings of the embassies in kenya and tanzania. everything shelved. fast forward to sept. 2001. no prior knowledge of a terrorlst attack, hours after the attack it was bin laden in afghanistan, we invade, may 2000, unocal and the interm govt. announce plans to build this pipeline. names like cheney, bush, daddy george, haig, kissinger all pop up in some fashion with these oil rich countries and companies!!!! there are many more facts, names, contracts that would shock you, can give you these if you like. very hard to write all this off as just a coincedance. follow the money trail!!!!

[tkd_q45]

Moderators, shouldn't this thread be moved to the "General Discussion" forum? I fail to see the "Infiniti" content/value in this thread.

Everyone else - interesting discussion

If you got to know me better, you'd probably say I'm a "lefty" or dare I say even "liberal" - but you know what? I LOVE BURNING GASOLINE! There, how 'bout that! I own not one but TWO V8 powered cars - one of them a Q45 - there I've done my part to Infinitize this thread! And not the modern day fuel LS1 V8 fuel effecient types either! I do have to admit to wanting better MPG so that I don't have to spend so much darn money on gas. But I love the feel of a V8. So I make my choices mindfully. I see it as doing my part to finish off all the cude oil so we can then really move onto alternative fuels and not be jacked around by those countires with the oil.

Those of you who are really passionate about one side or another (left or right for lack of better definition) - do you really think you're going to change the others point of view? Or am I just being naeve in that people are just simply enjoying the name calling?

[VimyJ]

One can only hope to provide facts and research. To automatically gainsay because one finds the conclusions disturbing or upsetting shouldn't diminish the value of the information unless, of course, information can be provided that can factually and logically refute a propostion.

There is a "Flat Earth Soceity" and those who believe the moon landings were faked. You can lead a horse to water....

[VimyJ]

One thing to be remembered about Russian oil production: Their own demand is increasing at a rapid pace.

During the height of the Soviet Union they consumed about 9 million barrels per day (mbpd). They currently consume about 2 mbpd but are rapidly industrializing again. Their current production is 9 mbpd. Not much hope from Russia for cheap oil.

Read the latest ink in the "Petro" thread.