1998 Nissan Pathfinder Alternator Replacement ?s

[Alibireason]

About two years ago my Pathfinder started having problems not starting after sitting for a few days (I got a new car so Pathy stopped being my daily driver). I took the vehicle to O Reillys and they the alternator tested bad while on the vehicle. I found an alternator at the junkyard for $30 and O Reillys put it on their machine inside the store and and it passed completely. I installed it and it seemed to work at first, and then it would only start with a jump, and once turned off the car would have ZERO power and would need another jump to turn on again. I also checked my work (I'm an amateur) and noticed I hadn't tightened the alternator ground wire completely. I painstakingly tightened it. Still not working.

My memory is foggy but I know that I did go through three Wal Mart batteries (love that warranty (install battery-car won't start, battery tests bad, rinse and repeat)) I added some Stabil Storage fuel treatment knowing it would be sitting until I fixed it. Over the past 1.5 years I've turned it on with a jump (very hard to get it to turn over, but it always does and runs fine until I turn it off again. Last month I jumped it and took it to O Reillys and they were able to test the alternator with the engine running and it failed.

My questions are:

-What are the possible consequences of not having tightened the ground wire completely? Could it have worked had I not made that mistake?

My local Cost Less has these remanufactured alternators:
Pure Energy $135 ($72 core)
AC Delco $193 ($49 core)
Denso $264 ($68 core)
BBB Ind. $145 ($65 core)
Bosch $187 ($70 core)
Remy $153 ($73 core)
Which is recommended? Can I get away with purchasing a cheaper one?

Should I replace alternator belt along with alternator?

I recall it being a huge pain to get the alternator back on. It seemed to to get stuck trying to install it. Any tips on installing it (lube, angle, etc.)?

Thank you,

Daniel

[mdmellott]

Sometimes the lower cost options are not always a bad choice but there are risks with quality and sold as a remanufactured alternator, quality varies even more with different brands. I would try to make certain that it was not mischaracterized as remanufactured by asking what parts were replaced. A rebuilt alternator has had worn out parts replaced but does not necessarily meet all factory specifications of a new alternator. A remanufactured alternator also has worn out parts replaced and more, to meet all factory spec's. It's almost impossible to see the difference and know if it will last a day after a short warranty period or years longer. A longer warranty is a good sign you may be able to trust the quality of the build.

Bosch and Denso have typically been a reliable choice, but they do cost more. Of the lower cost units Remy has a fairly good reputation. However, everyone of the brands you listed depends on how they have been rebuilt or remanufactured. It's a "let the buyer beware" sort of thing.

As for replacing it - as you have done once already - patience is really the only trick to it. The alternator has a very limited slip fit into its mounting position. It will get stuck, trying to put it in place, if it isn't slipped into position perfectly straight. Replacing the belt is a judgement call you will have to make. If it has indications of wear, like shown in the following image, or it's pushing 10yrs old or 100K miles, replace it.

[mdmellott]

-What are the possible consequences of not having tightened the ground wire completely? Could it have worked had I not made that mistake?

Hi Daniel. No worries on this question. It won't work if the ground is not connected well but you didn't wreck it having not done so at first. The regulator in the junk yard part, or some other aged electronic piece, probably just gave up the ghost after first testing functional by O'Reilly. The IC regulator, diode, and brushes will always be replaced with new parts, in a remanufactured alternator, and maybe even the stator and rotor. A rebuilt alternator may not.

I found a review on Remy versus Pure Energy alternators you might find helpful, but it only speaks to new versus new, and not refurbished alternators.
https://claytonnotes.com/remy-vs-pure-e ... ternators/

[MisterH]

If you don't already have one it might be a good idea to get a multimeter so you can run a couple simple tests to see what your starting/charging system is doing. With it, you can do things like check the static charge of the battery and then the running voltage while the engine is on. Always start with a known good battery at full charge. Lastly you can check for parasitic drains on the system to figure out why voltage drops occur when parked overnight. One last thing you check for since these trucks have a lot of years on them, is one thing that stumped me when it happened last year: I too had a battery that was quickly discharging overnight. Found I had a 6 amp current draw and it was caused by the brake lights being on all the time. THey were on because the little rubber stopper at the brake light switch that turns them off when the pedal is released, had simply disintegrated and fell out due to age.

[Alibireason]

Thank you very much for the highly helpful info!

Mister H once I get the new alternator/battery installed I was going to look for parasitic draws just to be sure. That is what I initially thought the problem was. Was it any easy fix for you to replace the rubber stopper?

md mellot that is a sigh of relief. I had this feeling I had done some damage. I was asking an auto parts clerk about alternators and this very nice woman behind me said to go with Pure Energy (reman) brand. She said she works in a shop, it is what they use, and that they stand by them. They are $135 with the core and have a lifetime warranty so that is where I plan to start. If problems arise I guess I will become very efficient at replacing an alternator on a Pathfinder.

md the alternator belt looks good, but I am guessing it is older than 10 years. Before the car stopped turning on I had quick squeak from the belt on start up that I was able to correct adjusting the tension. I'll keep an ear on it.

Thank you both for contributing to NICO club. Not only has helpful answers enabled me to do A LOT of work on my vehicle successfully but I hadn't been on here in a couple of years until recently and noticed that some of my many question had up to 5000 views. It's good to know that this assistance is hopefully helping others as well.

Keep up the good work!!!

[MisterH]

"Mister H once I get the new alternator/battery installed I was going to look for parasitic draws just to be sure. That is what I initially thought the problem was. Was it any easy fix for you to replace the rubber stopper?"

No, really simple replacement.

[Alibireason]

UPDATE****

I got the reman. Pure Energy alternator and installed it with problems only I created like assuming I could but the belt on AFTER I had the alternator bolted in. No amount of loosening the tensioner gave me enough slack to slip it on. I took the bolts out, moved the alt., slipped on the belt and was able to install with ease. I had zero problems getting the alt. into the correct position (the junkyard one I tried to install a while back would not slip into place easily). At the moment I can't afford a brand new battery as well so I charged the bad battery (fried by previous alt.) to 14v and the car turned right over. I let it idle for a few minutes, turned it off, and it turned right back on. I drove for 20 minutes and when I got home I turned it off and it then it only clicked. I jumped it, let it idle for 5 min, turned it off and then only click. I see a new battery in my future.

While in my driveway after the car had been running about 30 min I used my Fixd code reader to get live data (below):
Do these numbers suggest much I should look into?

My ABS illuminated as well as a code (P0161 O2 Sensor heater Circuit Malfunction Bank 2 sensor 2). I'm going to start a new thread for that.

[MisterH]

Those reading aren't relevant- what you want to know is charging system voltage and current while running; which any simple tester will have. If you suspect you have a bad battery you need to know you're starting out with a known good one. One simple test is to view system voltage while the car is running at idle. An optimal reading should be between 13.5-14.0v. That will verify that your charging system is OK.

[Alibireason]

******UPDATE #2******

I found a used battery at the junkyard for $40. The clerk hooked up a battery tester and it passed and it had just finished charging. The old bad battery I had before was an Everstart Maxx (part #) W24-700, CCA 700, reserve capacity 140. This junkyard battery is a AAA brand (part#) C-34, CCA 690, and reserve capacity 110 (same size as old and correct post position). I put a voltmemter to the junkyard battery before I installed it and it read 12.8v. I installed it and it turned right on, first crank. With the car on the voltmeter read 14.2v. I let it run in park about 10 minutes and turned it off, and then it wouldn't start. Click, click, and then not even a click but the dash lights still illuminated. I jumped it and it turned on. I let it sit for about 15 minutes and then took it for a 10 min drive. I used the Fixd OBD app and scanned it a few times while driving and the battery read between 13.1-13.8v...with the higher readings coming when I was going about 30mph and the lower readings I was only going 10-15mph. After I got home with the car in park and running the voltmeter read 13.8v on the battery. After almost 30 min of the car being on I turned it off and then only got click, click, click, and then not even a click again. Battery with car off reads 12.75v.

Do I need a different battery? Is battery probably bad? Starter issues? Parasitic draw? CCA, reserve capacity?

My next step is to get it going again and have local parts store test the battery and alt while it's running.

Thank you.

[mdmellott]

Do I need a different battery? Is battery probably bad? Starter issues? Parasitic draw? CCA, reserve capacity?

Electrical issues drive me crazy but it's usually simpler to fix when you figure out what to test before throwing parts and money at it. It runs great and then nothing. Sounds like a relay or ignition switch getting hot when it's running but then won't function again, after turning off the engine, trying to start it back up. I wish I could tell you for certain what to check. I usually get lucky just going through the Nissan FSM and testing everything I can think of, with my multimeter, until I land on the defective component.

[Alibireason]

I tried to turn the car on and and only got a click. I pulled the fuse for FL80A ACC IGN from the fuse box behind the battery, reinserted it and the car turned on only once, then click. I took it out and reinserted it again and the car turned on 5 times in a row. Then click. I tried removing-reinserting the fuse again and nothing for several attempts in a row. The 80a fuse is bigger and has a blue strip in the middle. If the fuse were blown would the blue strip be broken? Mine is still connected. How would I test this type of fuse? Thank you.

[MisterH]

Sorry this is still giving you problems. It's also possible that your starter relay is failing. After it's been heated up and running for bit, shut it down and try to restart. If you just get just a click again then take a hammer and whack on the starter a couple of times. If it starts immediately after that you may have found the issue.

[mdmellott]

If the fuse were blown would the blue strip be broken? Mine is still connected. How would I test this type of fuse?

If that fuse was blown, the car would not start at all, so that's not it. A continuity test will confirm a fuse to be good or bad. There is no such thing as an intermittent problem with a fuse. They are either good or bad.

I would test the ECCS relay. Here's how. https://www.etechnophiles.com/test-rela ... ultimeter/

[mdmellott]

If it is not that, your ignition switch, ignition relay, or starter are suspects to check as well.

[Alibireason]

I may have found an alternate cause of my problem. When I bought the car I was told that to get it started I would have to put the key in the ignition and wait for a single chirp. Once I hear it turn the key to where it stops just before turning it on (accessory?) within about two seconds you will hear a double chirp and only then at that doublechirp moment will the car turn on. Otherwise you get just a click like I am now. Are all Pathfinders equipped with this type of anti-theft chirping or is mine probably aftermarket? Is there a way to disable it? I figure if I disable it and the car starts every time I will have found the culprit.

Yesterday I started the car and drove it for about twenty minutes then parked and turned it off only to get a click. I was about to try and tap the starter but I tried once more and it turned on. I was getting it to start about 80% of the time and I remembered the chirps so I started really focusing on turning the key during that brief 1 second doublechirp window with still about 80% success. Could this anti-theft chirp precaution be malfunctioning? I don't recall it being this sensitive.
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I also pulled this relay and was able to set the voltmeter to I believe 200 ohms and I touched the only two vertical pins and got a reading of.75. That means it is working right? I set the meter to the one where I think you are testing for continuity with a beep and tried every combo of pins and never could get it to beep. Which ones should I be touching for continuity beep?

I'm a little confused. MD, in your pic it labels the first relay as ECCS, but the diagram on the lid calls it EGI and the ECCS is a 7.5a small fuse on the left row of fuses. What am I missing?

I went to the junkyard and found the brown relay on a 1996 Pathfinder and it tested the same way as my original with the voltmeter: on 200ohms .75 and I couldn't get a continuity beep from any combination of touching pins. After replacing the replay I still get it to start about 80% of the time.

My ?s are:

-How to test for continuity in the six prong relay?
-Chirping? Can I disable it (pull the fuse/relay)? Could it be the culprit.
-Is my fuse box diagram accurate?

I am extremely grateful for your help!

[MisterH]

" I was told that to get it started I would have to put the key in the ignition and wait for a single chirp. Once I hear it turn the key to where it stops just before turning it on ..."

That behavior is not factory. It sounds like the previous owner installed some kind of additional wiring and/or anti-theft devices that are interfering in the normal switch operation.

[mdmellott]

I may have found an alternate cause of my problem.

Yeah. I think you may have identified what the problem is. Why and how this is happening, I don't know.
The image I posted is from the '98 Nissan FSM. The relay/fuse box cover, commonly used on other Nissan models as well, is labeled as it should be. No worries though. Don't spend any more time on that.

The only time these PFs should chirp is when you lock the doors with the remote fob.
I have no idea what is going on with what you described of the previous owner's instructions.

MisterH may be right about something going wrong with some aftermarket add-on or maybe something is wrong with the Nissan anti-theft system. There is a theft warning relay in the relay box next to the driver side fender, plus two others for theft warning horn and lamp. Maybe try swapping out the theft warning relay with another one of the same type. There are several of the same types there, like the front fog lamp relay. I have no idea really.

[Alibireason]

I swapped the anti theft relay with an identical one and am still getting the same results. It will start ten times in a row, then a click, start 5 times in a row, then 5 clicks in a row, then it will start. It did have a false start one single time where it was halfway turning over and then didn't complete, then a few clicks in a row, and when it finally turned over it felt as if it was completing the anomaly false start. I also went to the junkyard and found the brown and grey relays from a 2008 Nissan and replaced them with no success.

I found the aftermarket Trilock Vehicle Security System under the driver's side down to the left of the brake pedal (see photo). I would like to remove it regardless. Is this easy to do or will I be opening a can of worms??

At Easter dinner I met a guy who owns his own mechanic shop. I picked his brain and he told me that to test a starter it has to be done while on the vehicle (he claimed taking it an auto parts store starter test doesn't subject it to the full load that it would while on the car). He mentioned using a circuit test light to test the cable coming from the battery to the starter while someone else is trying to turn the car on. I've added a pic on my positive battery post. I can't visualize what he said...how would I perform this test (step by step)???

[mdmellott]

I found the aftermarket Trilock Vehicle Security System under the driver's side down to the left of the brake pedal (see photo). I would like to remove it regardless. Is this easy to do or will I be opening a can of worms??

Mystery solved. Can of worms - Easy or not. It's the source of all that ails you. I can't find any information on that devise. Probably out of business. Found a Jeep Wrangler forum post with the same question of how to remove it but that too had no help in doing so. I doubt it is as easy as just unplugging it, since it has likely severed and spliced into your ignition wire. Get rid of it and put the original wiring back together. Good luck.

[MisterH]

"Is this easy to do or will I be opening a can of worms??

For someone who routinely works on automotive wiring and is good with reading schematics, it can still be a mess. That person will have to first identify and then trace every wire in the starting system to to determine how it differs from the factory wiring and then correct it. Not pretty at all. That said, now that you know the specific steps in the starting sequence you could just live with that behavior and drive the car accordingly.

[Alibireason]

Wow thank you for investigating this. I have no faith in myself to mess with wiring like that. Sigh.

On another note with the starter: I doublechecked all the connections coming from the battery and made sure they were secure and snug. I looked at the fuse box under the dash and looked at the fuse for the starter...it was intact but with some reddish discoloration on the prongs. I changed it with another similar one.

Before doing those things I put the vehicle on ramps to get a good look at the starter. Of the two nuts holding down whatever wires they are attached to I was able to slightly tighten the TOP one, but only just a bit. It was not fully tightened before but it is now. Thinking I may have a strong lead with the intermittent problem starting I tried to fire it up and now it will not start at ALL. Before doing this I was able to to get it started 5 times in a row, then one click, then 3 starts, then a click. That's when I decided to look at the starter. Now nothing at all, as if I'd made it worse. Sometimes it seemed as if I didn't even hear a literal click when i tried starting it. The battery was at 12.4v before looking at the starter, it is now at 12.2v. I'm guessing a jump will work.?

Not sure if this matters but I recall reading something about the dimming of dome lights while trying to start a car. This last set of no starts i turned the dome lights on and every time I tried to start it there was no dimming at all. Is this a clue?

Thank you.

[VStar650CL]

No dimming means the starter isn't drawing any current. Under a 150A+ load from the starter motor, a healthy 12V battery drops to around 10V. That's what causes the dimming. So your starter either isn't getting a solenoid signal (likely in light of that junk under the dash, which probably uses a relay to cut out the solenoid signal), or your starter has bad brushes or a bad contactor, making it unable to draw current.

[Alibireason]

I really appreciate all of this help and advice. I would be twiddling my thumbs without you people.

I will try replacing the starter first. I scoured youtube for videos of the process and found some decent ones, and I have the Haynes manual as well. I have a feeling it will be a PITA (tight location, not having the exact length tools to manuever in that tight spot, etc.)...any writeups on the topic, which tools to have, or helpful tips to help get me through the process would be extremely appreciated.

Thank you.

[mdmellott]

...any writeups on the topic, which tools to have, or helpful tips to help get me through the process would be extremely appreciated.

Testing first, before spending more money and time on parts with your fingers crossed, makes more sense to me. What is this thing? The white/red color or the two wires tells me those may be from the ignition switch. The gnarly looking wire pinched under the +battery terminal looks like it goes into the bottom side or underneath that reddish colored device or maybe landed onto the +battery terminal. None of that looks normal, especially the gnarly looking wire.

[VStar650CL]

I'm with Md on this, you shouldn't be throwing parts at what may be a bad connection or something cheaper like a P/N relay. Invest in a $4 test lamp and see if the solenoid wire lights up at the starter when an assistant turns the key. If it doesn't then the problem isn't the starter. If it does, do the same test with the probe on the threads of the starter main lug (the threads, not the nut or the wire terminal). If that goes dim or out when the key is turned then your cabling has a problem.

BTW, that gnarly wire looks to be added on. The two fat W/R wires are a parallel connection to the fusible links and then downstream to everything else, including the alternator. From what I can see in the WD's, there shouldn't be anything else attached to the hot terminal.

[Alibireason]

I know that the gnarly red ended exposed wire goes up along the firewall to a fuse and then to my car stereo amp in the very back of the vehicle. I already know the shop I took it too does sub par work...In 2019 when I had the amp installed they had the fuse housing just hanging above a very hot section of the engine and it melted. I had to take it back and have them install a new one in a better spot.

Earlier this week I had the car turning over about 75% of the time. I had switched out relays with no success. I had taken it to O Reillys and the manager went to test the alt/batt/starter. Then of course when I went to turn it over it wouldn't several times in a row. The manager said that despite not turning over the starter passed (apparently from the attempts), as did the alt/batt. He mentioned checking the wiring on the starter. I was able to tighten the nut holding the wire under the rubber boot just a bit. It wasn't "loose: but it wasn't snug either. I was hoping that would have helped but from that point on it stopped turning over altogether. That is when I noticed that when I was trying to turn it on the dome lights did not dim one bit; stayed the same brightness.

I decided to try taking the starter out. It was not too difficult once I assembled the right socket/swivel/extension. When I was loosening the lower bolt it was soaked in oil, and the big hunk of metal behind the starter seemed to be weeping oil at the seam. I wiped the "wet" (for the sake of the person testing it) oil off of the starter and took it to the parts store for testing and the clerk told me they would not test it because it was too greasy...apparently a starter had caught on fire before while testing. He also said the oil was probably the reason the starter failed.

I took pictures of the starter and the hole with the big gear the starter fits into. The starter itself is from Nissan/Mitsubishi. Could this possibly be the original starter (Pathfinder has 247k miles)? Should I clean the starter and try to have it tested? I hope these pics shed some light on this. Thank you.

[VStar650CL]

Testing a starter doesn't necessarily tell you anything unless the tester is pretty sophisticated. Problems which cause shorts such as degraded stator windings are easy to diagnose, but opens from bad brushes or contactors are much more difficult, especially when they're intermittent.

Now that the starter is out, the solenoid wire will be very easy to check but very hard to verify. With the starter in place, if the lamp lights but the starter doesn't spin, you can be fairly certain the starter has an issue. With the starter removed, if the lamp lights, something upstream could still be fooling you because there's no starter to verify things. I don't want to sound like a critic, but the way you're going about this is wrong.

[MisterH]

Just want to echo what the esteemed VStar is trying to tell you. I've seen a few posts here where people are clearly pointed to the real source of their problem but for various reasons they want to explore every possible alternative cause OTHER than the one that will fix it. I get why some people may want to do that - it's often because the real fix is out of their technical comfort zone or will be too expensive. In your case, your ignition wiring has been modified in a way that disrupts the normal startup behavior so it appears you have two choices: put the wiring back the way it should be or just live with it as is. BTW, that oil all over your starter is typically due to
leaking of the passenger side valve cover.

[Alibireason]

Thank you both. Sounds like my options are to put the starter back on and try the lamp light tester (which I just bought), or install a new one and test it then. Given the clerk refused to test the starter because of the grease, could I clean the starter and have it tested in a parts store (what should I use to clean it) before reinstalling it? Would that give any definitive results about the starter itself?

This probably doesn't matter but the day my car stopped turning over completely I did try tapping the starter with a rubber mallet and still no start. I tried twice.

Also should I be concerned about the grease buildup inside the hole where the starter sits (see pic). Should I clean that too while the starter is off?

As someone who only knows what I've learned about auto mechanics from you fine people, youtube, and my Haynes manual, I just want you all to know how much I truly appreciate that you are taking the time to help with this. Thank you.

[VStar650CL]

Grease doesn't hurt starters, there are gadzillions of Pathies, Frontiers, and Xterras running around with crud-covered starters just like yours because of leaky valve covers. Motor oil and most greases are electrically-inert and don't affect the stator and rotor insulation. For practical purposes it's a rust preventative. Use Brakleen if you want to make it shiny so they can test it.

A rubber mallet probably won't work to jar bad brushes, we usually use a 6 pound hand sledge.

Given the junk under your dash, I'd first see if there's a signal getting to the starter solenoid terminal without reinstalling the starter. As I mentioned above, if you do see a signal then it may not prove anything because the starter is absent, but if you don't see a signal, you can be pretty confident the problem is upstream, most likely from the junk.