1995 Q45 Will not crank

[posplayr]

Hi I have been using the forum but have never posted. I'm looking for a little confirmation or suggestions. My Q45 has 125K miles on it. I recently changed valve cover gaskets and spark plugs. It has been running well.

Today I took a short in town drive. On returning home I stopped in the drive way and turned off the engine. The car would not crank after that. I pulled out the electronic FSM and did some preliminary diagnosis.

A.) The EL-48 Diagnostic Information Display indicates no malfunctions
B.) The EL-48 Self Check indicates no issues.

after reviewing the Starter System schematic on EL-15......

C.) I removed the BLUE starter Relay on the passenger side of the engine compartment.
i.)The B/Y wire on E4 goes to 12V when the ignition switch is turned to start.
ii.)There is continuity between the relay contacts at E3 when the solenoid is energized (open otherwise).
iii.) The solenoid clicks when the ignition key is switched on and off.
===> CONCLUSION: Ignition switch, Starter Switch are working
D.) The W/B at E3 has 12V power from the battery

E.) I applied 12V from the battery to the B/R wire at E4 of the starter relay. There is a small spark, so current is being pulled but no sound from the starter.

F.) Same difference I jumpered across the B/Y and B/R at E4 and no sound from the starter.
===> CONCLUSION: My solenoid is not clicking/working and I need to remove the starter.
This seems straight forward but , it has me cornered into removing the starter.

Any comments suggestions other than whacking on the starter?

TIA for any comments

EDIT: Two whacks with a hammer and a 1/2" drive extension to the side of the solenoid and the engine cranked right up.

I guess we know what it is now.......

[turael]

Haha, well done - reading through this I was going to tell you to give it a belt and see what happens. Had this happen with at least 3 other cars.

[posplayr]

OK I got the starter out and it was relatively easy so I will show how I did it. When I first read how difficult it was going to be I was a little worried but I knew I had taken a starter out of a 1990 Q45 a few years back and apparently the tool I made and used was still in my tool box. The key is a simple 14mm box end wrench. This is one I cut off for clearance to get both starter bolts off.


As mentioned before:

• * Put the front of the car on jack stands
  * Remove the engine pan
  * Remove the Heat shield
  * Remove and drain the hydraulic line for the steering fluid

The upper bolt was duck soup. The wrench goes right on and has a lot of swing, The only trouble is getting enough force with the short wrench to break the bolt loose. If I was stronger or had more room I could have perhaps does it with my hand, but the next best thing is to use the brain rather than brawn and I was able to use two interlocking C clamps between the wrench and the sway bar to break the top nut loose.




The wrench will also go onto the lower bold but has less room; use another box end wrench to get more leverage. You only get about 20 degrees of turn then you have to flip the wrench over and pull another 20 degrees then back to the original direction.








This is basically how you get leverage if the under body photos are not clear.



After getting the upper and lower bolts off, I could adjust the position of the starter and get a 12mm x 1/4" socket (short with no extension) onto the solenoid cable nut from the rear. That seem to be the hardest. After that is loose it takes a little finagling and to get the big end up so the gear end comes out first through the bottom.

Nothing else like sway bar or cross members was required to come out. I did not use any extensions except when removing the engine pan and the heat sheild 10mm bolts.

New starter should be at the parts store in the morning. I will carefully compare the two for size when I pick the new one up.

BTW I took the old selinod off and it looks like it was a little rusty or perhaps some insulation was falling into the solenoid plunger and stopping it from engaging the starter. No going to risk it. A new starter is going back in.


here are two other links for comparision.

starter-removal-repair-and-parts-frustr ... 20220.html


starter-removal-jed-coop-s-method-t426877.html

[posplayr]

Haha, well done - reading through this I was going to tell you to give it a belt and see what happens. Had this happen with at least 3 other cars.

Thanks , sounds like you must be a pro at this

[OwnerCS]

Nice job!

[posplayr]

Well the new starter is in and cranks much better than the old. The only problem I ran into was that the remanufactured starter housing was slightly different and did not allow the same swing in the box end wrench for the lower bolt. I found this out after the starter was already in and I was not going to pull it out if I did not need to.

I used a dremel grinder wheel and ground down the starter housing right where the wrench would hit. I also trimmed down the webbing where the box end was joining to the stem of the wrench. Weakened it a bit but not so much that could not tighten the bolt.

[posplayr]

Nice job!

Thanks, glad it is done; will tackle the moon roof next