Starter removal - Jed Coop's method

[JeffTepper]

A few weeks ago I posted about an intermittent start/no start condition on my '94 Q45 with 113,000 miles. Suggestions from the Board included the likely diagnosis that my starter brushes and possibly commutator were worn and needed refurbishing. I finally found time this afternoon to try and remove the starter. The excellent write up by Jed Coop was the basis of my effort. Unfortunately the method he suggests for removing the lower starter bolt does not work. There is no F'king way two 6" extensions with a u-joint in the middle can wrap around the side of the starter when coming from in front of the cross member. For those of you that have actually removed your starter motors successfully, PLEASE share your method. Thanks in advance for all helpful suggestions.

Regards, Jeff
Modified by JeffTepper at 3:08 PM 5/31/2009

[JeffTepper]

After three days with no replies, would it be incorrect to conclude that no one here on the forum has successfully removed their starters??????????????????????????

[maxnix]

Maybe no current readers.

There are other posts on it. Find them.

[lino]

I replaced the battery and alternator in my car but not the starter.

However, at the local Infiniti dealership someone brought their G50 Q45 in to have the starter replaced and never came back for the car when the service department phoned them with the amount of the bill. The car was sold through auction with no title and now the new owner who bought it from the auction is trying to sell it as a parts car for $400.

Another dealer I visited a couple of years ago also had a G50 Q45 come in to have the starter replaced and never came back for it in 6 months and that car was supposed to be sold through auction.

That's all that I know about starters for the G50. Sorry I don't have anything that's helpful to you.

[Drake57]

I did mine about 6 months ago on a 1992 Q45: I disconnected the battery cable, removed the stabilizer bar, and used various combinations of sockets, 3/8" drive flex handle (breaker bar). I don't recall it being such a big deal, it took a couple of hours. It seems like the uppermost mounting bolt was a little difficult to reach, but I managed.

[Drake57]

PS - it had reached the point of that the starter might or might not spin when I turned the key, and the bendix also made an awful sound like a dry bushing when it disengaged. Once when it would not start, I bypassed the normal circuit, and shunted +12 to the solenoid signal wire to the starter and it spun. The next time it failed to spin, I replaced the starter as described above, now it starts smoothly and reliably.

[JeffTepper]

FWIW, I searched back SIX years and other than Jed Coop's thread, I found nothing else about the lower starter bolt removal. I find your comment about no current readers having experienced this problem most curious and your suggestion to continue searching less than helpful. If you know about a prior thread that is on point, would it kill you to provide a link? If you don't know of one then IMHO you really haven't added value to the discussion.

My initial post specifically sought assistance from those members who ACTUALLY removed their starters successfully and I thanked them in advance for their helpful suggestions. From your response, it would appear that you are not someone who can provide such helpful assistance on this point. Have you forgotten that the point of a forum such as this to share knowledge and help each other overcome difficulties??

Regards, Jeff

[Drake57]

Jeff,

To the best of my recollection, I accessed all mounting bolts from behind the cross member - I think the flex handle was essential, because it is so slim in profile, it would fit between the starter and the cross member, given the right length of extension/socket combination.

I apologize for not recalling any more detail - it has been at least six months, but I promise you I did in fact remove and replace my starter without removing the cross member.

IIRC I had an assortment of extensions and universal joints, all 3/8" drive, necessary to fit in the tight constraints.

As I mentioned above, it took me about 2 hours start to finish. Your last resort would be to remove the cross member as described in the archives, which is considerably more work, but it can be done - I just did not find it necessary.

PS, Until yesterday, I had not accessed this forum for 8 weeks, so current readership matters as regards available assistance.

If I can help, I will try - I just may not get a chance to crawl under my car until this weekend.

Drake.

[JeffTepper]

Drake:

Thanks so much! I truly appreciate your insight.

Regards, Jeff

[qship96]

Worth paying the 1 hour labor to have an experienced professional do the job....my tech completed the job in about 40 REAL minutes, max.

[elwesso]

Starter replacements are usually one of those jobs that are really easy with a plethora of one time use tools (obscure) but really a pain with standard tools that most people have..

Be sure to post up what you did for everyone else!

[Drake57]

It took the mechanic 40 minutes, but you still had to take your car there, pick it up, and spend your time to earn what pays the bill, all of which takes time, real or otherwise. I just don't recall it being such a big job. I usually find it more convenient to do it myself than to have to fool with someone else.

Jeff, when using a universal joint socket extender, some masking tape wrapped around the flex part will provide a degree of stiffness sometimes necessary when fishing it into a tight space, yet allow flexibility as needed. You may also need to combine a deep socket with a short extension or u joint to get just the right length.

It also seems as if once the mounting bolt is broken loose, I could finish loosening it with fingertips.

[JeffTepper]

After much effort and a some cursing, I was finally able to remove the starter. In the original thread by Jed Coop, he suggested the 14mm stubby combo wrench with a 1/2" drive ratchet for the upper starter bolt. I found that when I disconnected the Power steering line, removed the heat shield and lowered the anti-sway bar, the stubby combo/ratchet did the trick for the lower bolt as well.

Though I appreciate the other suggestions including the swivel handle breaker bar, I just couldn't get them to work.

Now it's off to the re-builder to refurbish the brushes and commutator as necessary.

Thanks again for the helpful suggestions.

[Q-ZILLA]

My starter took a dump the other day and after spending time with the FSM (worthless), on Nico, Q45.org and Google, I undertook one of the biggest pain's in the asses to date with My Baby...

God bless you Drake57... You make it sound almost routine and mundane… I found this to be tedium to the umpteenth degree.

Disconnected battery, two jack-stands on the garage floor, dropped the front stabilizer bar, removed the heat shield and disconnected the connector. I did not want to mess with the power steering line.

Then trying with the tools I had for about an hour trying to bust 2 lousy bolts.… Went to Harbor Freight. My ratchets were too long or too big, open ends too big for bottom bolt, etc… Combination chaos… Bolts were frozen, used penetrating oil. It also took a while for me to get the “setup” right. I don’t claim to be a genius mechanic…

Purchased a 3/8” 4 pc wobble ext set, 3/8” stubby ratchet and an extra u-joint. Got the upper bolt loose by taking a 14mm 3/8” socket to a u-joint to a short ext to another u-joint (both u-joints had duct tape on the “loosely”) to 2 long ext (about 14” in total), then to a 1/2" adaptor/ratchet.



I went up right behind the cross-member near the opposite side of tension rod bolt area and then tilted toward the bolt. Maybe not the prettiest way to get torque on the TOP bolt, but it broke the thing loose.





I did not experience “finger-tight” extraction, saw that somewhere... Used a 3/8” stubby ratchet with a short (2 or 2 ½”) ext to finish extracting. Last maybe 5-8 threads, finger-tight.

EDIT: When I put it back up th next day to check it out and re-torque the bolts, I found a much better path to the top bolt... Sorry JeffTepper, it is very do-able





Bottom bolt is a real pleasure… Some dumbass engineer with tiny hands and fingers should die… Anyway, after trying a variety of unsuccessful setups, I got the BOTTOM bolt loose with the 14mm to a u-joint, to another u-joint to a short ext to a flexible ratchet. Yes, 2 u-joints back to back… I forgot the 2" ext for the pic to a 3/8" flexible.







I’m sure someone thinks I’m nuts, but it is what it is and it worked.

It was a pain to finish bottom with socket-ratchet, so slipped on a 14mm closed ended wrench-ratchet. You cannot get your fingers on it to loosen, don’t waste your time, mine was far too tight anyway. After what seems to be a 1 or 2 click ratchet stroke x 100, it will get to “finger-tight”.

Worked the starter around, twisted, removed power lead to rear of unit, tilt rear up twist counterclockwise a bit and pull out.
Now for some more fun… Getting the new one in… While wiggling new starter around, line-up and finger-tight top and bottom bolts in about 6 or so turns, bottom bolt is a b****. Make sure you jack that thing in flush, and then reverse above.

I’m a rookie mechanic… Took me 4-5 hours, from beginning to end, including a trip to store, a couple phone calls and some quick grub. When I have to do it next time… 1-1.5 hours.

After viewing these posts for these past years… I’m sure there will be a couple Know-It-All’s out there saying I shouldn’t have done this or that. Too Bad!

Maybe if some of these “hot-shots” would post these types of procedures, this site might become more valuable to its members. I was stunned to find so little information on this common repair. Thank God it’s over… Till next time anyway!

[elwesso]

Thanks for posting! Fortunately starter replacement is not too common on G50s, so its not one of those painful experiences that most people face.. However, it seems painful enough to be miserable for those who do have to replace it.

Starters are almost always a bear to get to.. Be glad its not a 1UZFE Lexus engine where the starter is under the intake!

[BCC93QT]

Meh, i never want to do a starter again. Would rather probably do an engine swap again than just the starter. Seriously!

[qship96]

One of those jobs worth paying an hour or two labor to your favorite shop to do!!!!!

[Q-ZILLA]

I might have taken pictures, but I was bitching most of the time, and would have probably bashed the camera or something.

Having had time to think about it, it really wasn't that bad, once I figured it out. I guess I just like the fact that I didn't pay somebody else $160-180 and got some more cool tools for the next adventure.