1990 Q45 - Transmission mission

Post by **Q45_90_NorCalif** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:07 pm

This first part is a recap from a post I made earlier today at Yahoo! Forum.

“I am the second owner of a 1990 Q45. I bought it in 1994 at 78,000 miles. It is now at 130,000 miles and the original transmission is going. The car sounds very loud and gravelly in neutral or reverse as of a couple nights ago. Most of the noise goes away in other gears. The other night, while in Drive it seemed to slip into neutral. I assume this means the transmission is going. I gather I am lucky to have had it last this long.

I have been a “good” but uninformed owner when it comes to maintenance. Followed the dealers recommendations on service. I had the oil changed every 3,000 miles but that sometimes took 5 or 6 months of driving. It appears that the previous owner did all the recommended stuff during his lease.

I do not believe the car has ever had the chain guides replaced. The dealer recommends I don’t mess with it if I’m not hearing any noises.

I replaced the AC compressor 5 years ago at 100,000 mi. and the AC evaporator core a couple years ago around 120,000 miles. Also at the same time were new front struts, rotors, pads and rear shocks. All to the dealers spec.

I put some nice BBS wheels on it in 99. Added about $1,200 for 4 good speakers, an amp and a sub-woofer.

The car drives great, smooth, fast, quite, etc. – at least before the trany problem. Looks very good but has had the driver’s door replaced a few weeks ago.”

------------------------

Based on the feedback from Heath & Jayson (thank you both) over there, I think I will spend the bucks and keep the car instead of looking for a 94 -96. Anyone disagree?

I have a local non-dealer shop to do the work. I’ll order the Trans. from Joe in Scottsdale for $1,800. I’ll also have the chain guides done. I am getting some conflicting information on the radiator. The shop I will use recommends replacing it ($370 from Joe) and continuing to use it to cool the transmission but with the Mobil 1 ATF. Thinks this would be enough to keep it cool.

Heath suggested skipping the radiator and installing a B & M fan. The shop says that can work but is concerned that adding another piece of hardware will disrupt the limited air flow to other components and may not be needed. Any thoughts?

Are there any other obvious (or not) items that should be taken care of during this servicing?

Thanks!!!

David

Post by **Mayhem_J30** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:07 pm

Q45_90_NorCalif wrote:I do not believe the car has ever had the chain guides replaced. The dealer recommends I don’t mess with it if I’m not hearing any noises.

David

ummm...sounds like you need a new dealer.

Post by **PalmerWMD** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:07 pm

Q45_90_NorCalif wrote:
1) I do not believe the car has ever had the chain guides replaced. The dealer recommends I don’t mess with it if I’m not hearing any noises.

Based on the feedback from Heath & Jayson (thank you both) over there, I think I will spend the bucks and keep the car instead of looking for a 94 -96. Anyone disagree?

2). The shop I will use recommends replacing it ($370 from Joe) and continuing to use it to cool the transmission but with the Mobil 1 ATF. Thinks this would be enough to keep it cool.

Heath suggested skipping the radiator and installing a B & M fan. The shop says that can work but is concerned that adding another piece of hardware will disrupt the limited air flow to other components and may not be needed. Any thoughts?

Are there any other obvious (or not) items that should be taken care of during this servicing?

Thanks!!!

David

Hi David, Welcome to our site.!:)

Let me start out by saying that both Heath and Jason are well respected members of this site as well and their advice is well worth heeding.

In advance sorry for all the typos :ofaceNow to adress your questions as in the above (abbrecviated) quote:

1) Chain guides; Many dealers labor under the above misconception that this can be heard.

I could write a lot more on it, but use our seacrh function in our articles section on our homepage look for "90-93 Q45 chain guides" This is a compilation of a long thread on this subject as posted on our old NCIO site and we took it with us.It will answer any question you may conceivably have, about this issue.Just be sure to read it as the cam chain guides are very critical.

2) While a new radiator is always a good additon to a hi mile car (since it is likely it lost some of its cooling power) it is not neccessary to protect your tranny (though it would still help if you kept the stock "cooler" set-up rather than upgrading to an aftermarket system)).When heath Suggested a B&M, I suspect he was referring to a tranny cooler (which also made by hayden) rather than a fan, they are generally best set-up when by passing the stock "cooler" tubing.In the stock set-up the tranny fluid goes thru radiator, but when adding a cooler it bypasses that.Those BM/Hayden coolers can be set-up in front of the rad and in our experience as a group, the mildly restricted airflow has not shown any ill effects on the radiator.They are inexpensive parts ($50-90) and have been shown by many PPLs experience to dramatically increase tranny longevity even when used hard.The combination with a premium ATF such as MOBIL1 works especially well.

3) Other items you might want to do:-replace braking fluid to protect ABS system and braking performance-Replace rear diff fluid w/ a premium GL-5 such as MOBIL1 GL-5.-replace powersteering fluid w/ MOBIL1 ATF (yes ATF).

I am sure others may have additional suggestions.

Fred...

Post by **Q45_90_NorCalif** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:07 pm

Fred,

Thanks for the welcome and all the specific information. Big help!

I coult not find the articles section of the home page. Was I looking right at it? Anyhow, a general search for "90-93 Q45 chain guides" did not result in finding the long thread. Any tips?

If I understand you correctly the best bet for keeping the tranny cool is to bypass the stock "cooler" tubing that goes through the radiator and add a tranny cooler in front of the radiator. Also, the radiator can be replaced or not depending upon the condition it is in.

Next best choice would be to replace the radiator and go with the stock cooler tubing. Yes?

Thanks again, what a wonderful resource this is.

David

Post by **aaacomp** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:07 pm

And you can get a new radiator off the internet for less than $300. Also, if you Know of a GOOD transmission repair you could get the the repair kit and get it done for less than $1000.00. Save all your money and get the guides done first.http://www.carradiatordirect.c...ITI&mhas radiators for around $250....:thumbup

Post by **Q45_90_NorCalif** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:07 pm

aaacomp,

Thanks for the radiator link. I'll probably give them a try if I go for a new one.

I think when I started searching old threads in these forums a couple nights ago people generally felt the tranny repair kits were too risky. I may be remembering incorrectly as it has been a blur of incoming information.

The guides will get done regardless... I'm just lowering the overall price as I get more info. like on the radiator.

David

Post by **DAEDALUS** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:07 pm

The guides are such an important topic, just do a search for "chain guides", and you'll find everything relevant.Mayhem's right--drop the dealer. They are the front line of the Infiniti marque, and Infiniti won't acknowledge it is a design flaw. Welcome!

Post by **PalmerWMD** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:07 pm

Articles search:

1) Go to our home page

2) On bottom left type into search window a general word of what you are looking for in this case "guides"

3) Make sure you enter "infiniti articles" into the "search in" function

4) Several results will boot up all of which contain useful information but teh one labeled "Guides to 90-93 Q45s" is the most comprehensive.

Keep in mind that this article is a copy of of a thread on the old site when you read it. SO it will bounce a bit between questions and answers.

Fred...

Post by **PalmerWMD** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:07 pm

Q45_90_NorCalif wrote:Fred,

1)If I understand you correctly the best bet for keeping the tranny cool is to bypass the stock "cooler" tubing that goes through the radiator and add a tranny cooler in front of the radiator. Also, the radiator can be replaced or not depending upon the condition it is in.

2)Next best choice would be to replace the radiator and go with the stock cooler tubing. Yes?

Thanks again, what a wonderful resource this is.

David

yes to 1)

2) is not a reall good solution but sometimes recommended by book, but expereince of us out here shows 1) to be vastly superior and cost effective solution.

Fred...

Post by **PalmerWMD** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:07 pm

BTW,

Most of the infiniti diehards/Gurus here are from the yahoo site originally, back from when it was still called the yahooinfintiownersCLUB, before they went to groups.

Many of us didn't like the changes brought on by the groups format, so we migrated here as a group, first to our old NICO.com site and now to this new NICO site (.net)

Many of us here still look into the yahoo groups site, on occasion.

Fred...

Post by **Q45_90_NorCalif** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:07 pm

OK, found my way to the Home page and the article. Pressing the home button at the top of this page would not take me there. It just took me to the list of all the forums and not tohttp://www.nissaninfiniticlub.net/where Fred's instructions make sense.

FYI, I will not be using the dealer for the service.

Any other thoughts on aaacomp's suggestion of going with a tranny repair kit?

David

Post by **PalmerWMD** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:07 pm

I respect aacomps advice about the repair kit.

If an economical solution was the prime consideration, I might go that route, but if it was affordable for me I would still buy a factory reman from Joe of Infinti of Scottsdale or Tom from Infiniti of Lisle.

Last time I checked they ran $1750 for the part, find shop to do teh install for $500-600 and you have an infiniti reman tranny for $2300 (but w/o the factory warranty on labor, just on the part, which can be a hassle, but most feel thats a calculated risk).

Factory remans are said to be pretty good, especially if fortified with an external tranny cooler and premium synthetic ATF such as MOBIL1 ATF ( but redline ATF, AMSOIL ATF have equal or better reputations too).

Fred...

Post by **Q45_90_NorCalif** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:07 pm

Well now they're $1,800 from Scottsdale. I think I will go that route but save on the radiator if I need one.

David

Post by **Q45tech** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:07 pm

"I think I will go that route but save on the radiator if I need one."

I is not necessarily the radiator but the integrated transmission heat exchanger that the rad is changed for [it gets pluged and coated inside losing its effectiveness]..... regardless you must add an external cooler.

The new M45 has a big one [AT cooler] in front of the rad/condenser guess they finally started reading posts! Actually this is getting very common as many new cars and almost all SUV designs are going that way now!

If your rad hasn't been changed in 10 years good idea to replace it anyway.....might as well avail yourself of as new cooling and new hoses just one less thing to worry about that won't destroy your engine!

Post by **fxjackso** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:07 pm

Norcal-

I post this message when I see any member with a trans problem.

I just bought a 90 Q with a Nissan reman that has 45K on it. Installed by a Dealer, and flushed at least once, by same dealer, at 30K. Because I have a parts car with a Level Ten (performance shop in NJ) rebuild in it I plan to put that unit in the 90. So, if you want to save some money for other things the Nissan rebuild is for sale. No warranty of course, but I've been driving it and it has no problems, except I believe the turbine sensor has a slight leak. My understanding is that a new reman comes with the sensor, but you could swap from your unit.

I would like to help a member (and myself) by selling this trans, otherwise I will end up "donating" it to a yard.

Contact me off board if interested.

Post by **Q45_90_NorCalif** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:07 pm

So, say I replace the radiator and the associated hoses and I add an external cooler. I am not clear as to why I would want to disconnect the integrated transmission heat exchanger from the mix.

From what I have read that has use if I were to have the car in cold weather. Say I went to Lake Tahoe for a few days in the winter where temps can get way below freezing. Aren't I putting the car at risk if the integrated transmission heat exchanger is not in use? Seems like having both engaged is ideal unless they are at cross purposes.

Thanks again,

David

Post by **Q45_90_NorCalif** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:07 pm

Just spoke with the shop where I took the car. They said that they are going to use some sort of listening device to see if there is any noise/rattle coming from the cam guides to determine if they recommend having them replaced. They said the problem is similar to certain other Nissan models and this can help determine if I want to spend that kind of money.

That's nice of them but from what I've read here it seems like it really doesn't matter if they hear anything. If it hasn't been done before, do it now, right? I plan on telling them to do it regardless but am curious to see if they can hear anything. I have seen no mention on the forums that this is an accurate gauge of an incoming guides problem.

David

Post by **maxnix** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:07 pm

It's really a preheater for the ATF to allow smooth shifts into 4th (OD).

I would just warm the car well, and leave it in 3 unless cruising a flat highway >60mph.

Post by **Q45_90_NorCalif** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:07 pm

Brian,

It sounds like the car is not at risk if I let it warm up.

I'm still not clear about having both the Integral Heat Exchanger connected as well as the external cooler. Is the basic idea that only one can be connected at a time and that the external one is preferred. That would make sense. Sorry all if I seem dense it's just unfamilliar territory for me.

Thanks,

David

Post by **Q45_90_NorCalif** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:07 pm

BTW, if there are any newbies like me reading along, I mentioned that a new tranny rebuild costs $1,800 from the Scottsdale, AZ Infiniti dealer. Just to clarify. It's $2,200 including $100 for shipping to CA. When the tranny is worked on and the current core is removed I send it back to AZ and they give me a $400 credit. Since I have to pay the shipping back that's another $100 added to the total cost or $2,200- 400+ 100---------$1,900 total

David

Post by **Q45_90_NorCalif** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:07 pm

OK the shop has now quoted me $845 to replace the tranny and the radiator. I will supply the parts. Installing the Tranny cooler will be on top of that.

The technician is estimating 15 - 16 hrs to do the guides. That seems very high from what I've read. Isn't it more like 16 hrs. to do everything (tranny and guides and radiator)? OK, I did some checking around and it looks like the book says 24.7 hrs to do the guides. Yikes! Who comes up with the .7 part after three days of work?

Thanks,

David

Post by **AZhitman** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:07 pm

I'm running my B&M tranny cooler in sequence with the radiator, as i believe most members are doing.

I'm guessing the thought is that with JUST the external, the possibility of it being overwhelmed is there, whereas having both in sequence keeps you from getting any HOTTER than even a nominal radiator would allow...

Post by **Q45_90_NorCalif** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:07 pm

OK, big doubts coming in.

Here's how this is pricing out right now: 450 Guide kit from Joe2125 Guide labor (25hrs x $85) 285 New Radiator from Inet1900 Tranny Reman. from Joe 80 Tranny sensor from Joe 50 Tranny Cooler 150 Install Tranny Cooler (under 2 hrs.) 850 Install Trans. & radiator (10hrs x $85) 240 Assorted fluids, mounts, etc.. (just a guess on my part)------$6,130

That seems like an awful lot to spend and has me wondering if I should look for another shop to save on labor. Any comments?

Post by **PalmerWMD** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:07 pm

You live in CA right?

I know its a bit of a drive but Jerry Tucker San Diego is supposed to be competitive with T3 when it comes to guide jobs.T3 charges 1200 including parts.SSSO I figure JT about teh same maybe 100 more? (call them)You can get the tranny install much cheaper too.

Price list for 2 biggest items should be:

new tranny $2300 installed, new guides $1300=3600

Fred...

Post by **Q45_90_NorCalif** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:07 pm

Fred,

Yes I'm in CA but it's about an 8 - 9 hour drive to San Diego which I don't have the time to take. Maybe I should consider having it trucked to SD. I have no idea what that might cost. I did leave a message for Jerry and will discuss options with him.

David

Post by **PalmerWMD** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:07 pm

We have quite a few CA members here.

One of them is likely to come out of the bushes and read this thread soon.

Hopefully they can hook you up with a reasonable place to do a tranny install.There is at least one more shop in CA that has done this for a good price (1200-1300 incl, parts) I just dont have the info which one it is..

just know JT for sure.

A couple of CA members here have done it DIY as well.

Keep us posted and don't get frustrated, just imagine the joy of hacing it done and being able to go Lexus hunting on the on-ramps..

Fred...

Post by **AZhitman** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:07 pm

Q45_90_NorCalif wrote:Fred,

Yes I'm in CA but it's about an 8 - 9 hour drive to San Diego which I don't have the time to take. Maybe I should consider having it trucked to SD. I have no idea what that might cost. I did leave a message for Jerry and will discuss options with him.

David

Try Forwardair.com - best kept secret in shipping. CHEAP, Baby!

Post by **Q45_90_NorCalif** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:07 pm

Just called Forwardair.com and they don't ship cars. A local place will do it for $500. It actually looks like it will be worth it for me to ship it to San Diego.

This is all very weird for a guy who usually takes his car to the dealer!

Post by **Q45_90_NorCalif** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:07 pm

Any CA folks out there want to jump in?

I spoke to Jerry and he will do basically the same thing I listed above for $2,000 less. Even if I have it shipped round trip to San Diego I "save" $1,000 off the current shop's price which is lower than the dealer's price.

Post by **PalmerWMD** » Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:07 pm

Some members have had success actually haggling their dealer down, belive it or not.Depending how badly teh dealer wants business, you might be able to say,"If you get within a $1000 of this total price I have quoted by JT, I will use you cuz it saves me hassle."If they say yes, it will save you a lot of effort if they say no you can still use JT.

Fred...

1990 Q45 - Transmission mission

1990 Q45 - Transmission mission

Re: 1990 Q45 - Transmission mission

Re: 1990 Q45 - Transmission mission

"Integral Heat Exchanger"

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