Good suggestion Fred. I just called the service manager and they will run the numbers in the morning when everyone is in. I doubt they will get within $1000 but who knows. Meanwhile any SF Bay Area folks have suggestions?
Thanks,
David
1990 Q45 - Transmission mission
Q45_90_NorCalif wrote:450 Guide kit from Joe2125 Guide labor (25hrs x $85) 150 Install Tranny Cooler (under 2 hrs.)
WOW. I'll bet someone at that shop lives in a big house. The tranny cooler install is a fairly easy job, not many tools required. Conservatively, say it'll take maybe 4 hours on your first try. And that's something you can get "pretty close" and iterate on while keeping the car on the road. Does the guide labor include the chains??? 25 hours is too many otherwise. The guide kit most likely does include the chains; if you're not leaking from your valve covers, then save yourself the cost of the chains, as you won't need new ones until another 200k miles.
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Q45_90_NorCalif
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- Car: 1990 Q45
I'm not sure if the Guide labor includes the chains. Probably. I think they just looked up the hours in a book. I don't know how much the chains cost if removed from the kit. I know they can be returned for a refund if they aren't needed. No leaking from the valve covers so they probably aren't needed.
No need to replace chains as they last very long, as long as teh redesigned guides, generally presumed to last the life of the car.
When the dealer looks up hours in a book, they often look up the full blown job to include chains as well, this greatly adds to labor and as well as some parts.The dealer book doesn't have a guides only job listed, hence the hi dealer estimates or charges.Many dealers refuse to do just the guides, as their book doesn,t have that "partial" job in it, even tho they are perfectly competent to do it.
I have twice observed a guide change on a first gen Q took less than a day of labor for one (very very good) tech.
Had time left over out of the work day (8hrs) to police up minor stuff on both cars.
Fred...
When the dealer looks up hours in a book, they often look up the full blown job to include chains as well, this greatly adds to labor and as well as some parts.The dealer book doesn't have a guides only job listed, hence the hi dealer estimates or charges.Many dealers refuse to do just the guides, as their book doesn,t have that "partial" job in it, even tho they are perfectly competent to do it.
I have twice observed a guide change on a first gen Q took less than a day of labor for one (very very good) tech.
Had time left over out of the work day (8hrs) to police up minor stuff on both cars.
Fred...
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Q45_90_NorCalif
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The less than 8 hours was for probably the most expereinced tech in the country with this particular job.Also those were real hours not billable hours.Billable hours are 11 if memory serves for those shops that consider this a standrad job ( not many dealers, if any, do).If JT was talking about day and a half that's prob what he was talking about.Jerry's rep is good out there in Cali.
Fred...
Fred...
I once returned a couple items and was charged a restocking fee; the chains are about $60 each, maybe you can ask Joe for everything in the kit BUT the chains. I don't think it's like a combo meal--the lot isn't any cheaper than the sum of the parts. I recall the kit also came with the plenum rubber, which isn't needed for this particular job. But they're cheap, and you'll pull the plenum eventually, so I wouldn't argue with keeping them.Fred, watching someone do a 8-hour guide job must've been pretty impressive. Kinda like watching a pro chef in a busy restaurant, maybe? David, 11 hours sounds about right for billable hours; see if you can get them down to that. Then labor for the job would be $935.
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Q451990
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- Car: 1990 Q45 - 118K, 2022 Toyota 4 Runner, 2004 Frontier M/T - 108K, 2012 Xterra (Mom's), 2023 Rogue (Inlaws)
- Location: Columbia, SC
- Contact:
On the tranny cooler issue... the theory behind bypassing the "cooler" in the radiator is that it's not really a cooler (that's the reason for the quotes). If I recall correctly, the transmission is designed to run at an optimal temperature of about 160F, but the engine runs at a much warmer temperature. On hot days the coolant in the radiator will be hotter than the ATF flowing through the A/T "cooler" in the radiator tank, so you're actually heating the fluid.
If you live in a very cold climate, the heating effect is a good thing, since overheating isn't really a concern and you want the transmission to warm up to the optimal temperature range. Here in the south, I don't see temperatures much below 20F, and now that she's always garaged, it should probably never get below 40.
The B&M external cooler has an orafice that supposedly works off of the ATF viscosity that will keep cold fluid from flowing through the cooler (sending it directly back to the A/T) until it warms up. I assume this works. Also, by using Mobil 1 ATF, the viscosity of the fluid is more stable, so warm-up isn't as critical.
I'd say with the Mobil 1/ B&M Cooler setup you'd be safe down to 15 or 20F. If you anticipate colder situations and not a lot of really hot stop and go driving (below 90-95F), I'd run them in series. I've also thought of putting in gate valves, so you could switch from the external cooler to the factory "cooler" with the various season, but it's probably not necessary here...
As for the transmission heating up, remember that it's bolted to the engine, and aluminum is a great heat conductor. The heat from the engine has a good path to the transmission, not to mention the two exhaust tubes with catalytic converters running beside it.
Sorry for the book, but maybe this helps clairify things...
Heath
If you live in a very cold climate, the heating effect is a good thing, since overheating isn't really a concern and you want the transmission to warm up to the optimal temperature range. Here in the south, I don't see temperatures much below 20F, and now that she's always garaged, it should probably never get below 40.
The B&M external cooler has an orafice that supposedly works off of the ATF viscosity that will keep cold fluid from flowing through the cooler (sending it directly back to the A/T) until it warms up. I assume this works. Also, by using Mobil 1 ATF, the viscosity of the fluid is more stable, so warm-up isn't as critical.
I'd say with the Mobil 1/ B&M Cooler setup you'd be safe down to 15 or 20F. If you anticipate colder situations and not a lot of really hot stop and go driving (below 90-95F), I'd run them in series. I've also thought of putting in gate valves, so you could switch from the external cooler to the factory "cooler" with the various season, but it's probably not necessary here...
As for the transmission heating up, remember that it's bolted to the engine, and aluminum is a great heat conductor. The heat from the engine has a good path to the transmission, not to mention the two exhaust tubes with catalytic converters running beside it.
Sorry for the book, but maybe this helps clairify things...
Heath
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Q45_90_NorCalif
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- Car: 1990 Q45
Heath,
Thanks for the book. I "get it" now.
DAEDALUS,
I'll talk to the shop tomorrow and see if they will come down to 11 hours.
Once again, thanks to all of you for the help. I've gone from a bewildered owner to someone who at least seems a lot more knoweldgeable about my car than most of the folks that work on it! All in two days... kinda scary but very valuable!
David
Thanks for the book. I "get it" now.
DAEDALUS,
I'll talk to the shop tomorrow and see if they will come down to 11 hours.
Once again, thanks to all of you for the help. I've gone from a bewildered owner to someone who at least seems a lot more knoweldgeable about my car than most of the folks that work on it! All in two days... kinda scary but very valuable!
David
Heath,
Good explanation!Let me add some 2 cents tho..:
I feel even the tranny cooler bypass is very valable even in weather much colder than 20F.A reasonable idle will partially pre-heat the tranny.Even in cold weather the tranny cooler is useful as coolant can still go up to 195F, rather too much for tranny seals.
Fred...
Good explanation!Let me add some 2 cents tho..:
I feel even the tranny cooler bypass is very valable even in weather much colder than 20F.A reasonable idle will partially pre-heat the tranny.Even in cold weather the tranny cooler is useful as coolant can still go up to 195F, rather too much for tranny seals.
Fred...
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Q451990
- Moderator
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- Location: Columbia, SC
- Contact:
Good deal... I don't have much experience with cold weather... avoid that stuff like the plague! I have a friend who lives in NY that doesn't get visited between October and April!
I vaguely remember Dennis saying something about running them in series in cold climates, but I don't know exactly what "cold climates" means. I think you're right though - good warm up and you should be fine...
Heath
I vaguely remember Dennis saying something about running them in series in cold climates, but I don't know exactly what "cold climates" means. I think you're right though - good warm up and you should be fine...
Heath
You can't over-value a good relationship with the shop that performs open-heart surgery on your car. Don't hesitate to buy the crew lunch and/or a couple of cold cases after their shift on the days they have the car, especially if they're willing to work with you on the prices and labor. I guarantee you they will take extra care with your car if you do this before they start, and that will more than pay for the food and drinks.If you have a shop that isn't too familiar with the job or the car, then it is in your best interest to supervise as much as possible. They may not like it, but not as much as you'll dislike a botched job, and the freebies will help. Insist on seeing the car after the new guides are in and just before they replace the cover. Look at the installed new parts. Check the tension on the chains. Ask them what the torque is on the crankshaft bolt after they put it in.Insist on getting the old parts back. Just a warning, if the old guides aren't whole, then you have pieces in the oil pan that should be removed. This requires supporting the engine to get the oil pan out, so is also a good time to have the motor mounts replaced if they're original. I would say that would add 4-6 hours of labor.
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Q45tech
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- Car: 1990 Q45 342,400 miles 22 years ownership with original engine
1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
Even with an external cooler [no rad unit] in 30F the tranny pan easily get above the 120F required for overdrive to engage after 5 minutes from a crank never had the temp drop below that in even 70 mph 20F driving.Have no experience below that temperature other than some 15F cranks but I always let the engine warm up at least 5 minutes before driving.
Mobil 1 SYN ATF is thinner at 20F [yet thicker at 212F] than the Dexron IIIe & even the new IV spec so this should be used in climates that see below 20F regularly or above 90F more than a few days.
Mobil 1 SYN ATF is thinner at 20F [yet thicker at 212F] than the Dexron IIIe & even the new IV spec so this should be used in climates that see below 20F regularly or above 90F more than a few days.
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Q45_90_NorCalif
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- Car: 1990 Q45
Another day of making phone calls & I have not found anyone in the SF Bay Area who will take the job unless I am willing to replace the chains when the guides are done and pay for 23 hrs. of labor. It is still cheaper to send the car to San Diego and have Jerry do it. Jerry confirmed that these are beefy chains and he has never seen one break. Gettin' close to sending the car to SD.
Sheesh!
Sheesh!
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greg_atlanta
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Q45_90_NorCalif
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- Car: 1990 Q45
If I go with someone I trust (at this point it's Jerry) I will let them make the call after seeing what it looks like. His initial response is that there is no need to do it.
The bigger issue for me is the chain job is apparently in the Inifiniti shop guide (or whatever it's called) at 23.7 hours. I'm told billable hours to do the guides is 11 hours (for a shop that knows what they're doing.) If replacing the chains took it to 14 hrs. and the parts it would be a lot more likely I would do both.
The bigger issue for me is the chain job is apparently in the Inifiniti shop guide (or whatever it's called) at 23.7 hours. I'm told billable hours to do the guides is 11 hours (for a shop that knows what they're doing.) If replacing the chains took it to 14 hrs. and the parts it would be a lot more likely I would do both.
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Q45_90_NorCalif
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- Car: 1990 Q45
Yes, just the 4 guides to the cam chains, a new cam chain tensioner, the guides to the oil pump chains, new oil pump chain and new oil pump chain tensioner.A more complete list is in the article "90-93 Q45;s cam chain guides" that I mentioned above.The above is the standard "package" that is part of teh typical chain job.
The stuff above the guides job, are things that are cheap parts and labor basically free, plus they really should be done anyway w/ advanced milage, so most everybody does those things as well adding very little cost.
Fred...
The stuff above the guides job, are things that are cheap parts and labor basically free, plus they really should be done anyway w/ advanced milage, so most everybody does those things as well adding very little cost.
Fred...
You can always do the chains later. Eventually your valve covers will leak again. The covers are a bigger job IMO. I would recommend doing the chains the first time your covers leak after 150k, or at 250k. The chains' stretch isn't related to age; they should be good for 250k miles regardless of how old they are. My car at 214k now will get new chains in about 5 years. I figure by then the covers will probably be leaking again.
FWIW, I believe that the discussions that I have read about external trans cooler in line with in-rad cooler summarizes to this:
In cold weather the in-rad cooler might help the trans fluid warm up faster than without in-rad cooler.
In normal/hot weather, in-rad cooler may ADD heat to ATF since engine temps are greater than ATF temps - normally. But this may depend on what the radiator exit (where in-rad ATF cooler is) temps are in a given operational scenario.
My thought is that an external ATF cooler bypassing in-rad cooler is would be Ok and preferred.
In cold weather the in-rad cooler might help the trans fluid warm up faster than without in-rad cooler.
In normal/hot weather, in-rad cooler may ADD heat to ATF since engine temps are greater than ATF temps - normally. But this may depend on what the radiator exit (where in-rad ATF cooler is) temps are in a given operational scenario.
My thought is that an external ATF cooler bypassing in-rad cooler is would be Ok and preferred.
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rogertelegan
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1990 Q45 tranny is "Roaring" need to modify ECU for first gear start.
First THANK YOU NICO - have learned everything I wanted to know about the Q45 tansmission and from reading this thread.....
I have a 1900 Q45 now with @ 79k and there has been a light ticking sound in 4th gear audiable at low speeds on quiet smooth streets. Well as it has turned out the Planetary Gear Pack is loose and going out.
I have changed the tranny fluid every 15k, but this is a first generation Q45 and starts in 2nd gear. I have read here in the NCIO forums that I should change the ECU so that I get a 1st gear start??
My tranny has been torn down and inspected by a very reputable transmission shop here in Fresno, California. (ARTransmissions) They are going to re-build my tranny and install. Not a repair, but a re-build. New Planet Pack, Clutch Pack, Solenoids, Sensors, and seals. @ $2,400.00 -- They have done about 12 of these over the years... Not that many, and they wanted to replace my radiator... But I am going to have them insall a B&M exteranal cooler instead.
Now I need to modify the ECU. There is a "WOLF" ??? Chip and AutoEnhancement and local aftermarket auto specialties shop here in Fresno. It came out of a wrecked 1990 Q45 about 10 years ago. They want $100.00 for it. This chip will in thier words "Cause a 1st gear start" and it changes the air to fuel mixture? Adds some horse power?
Any suggestions?
I have a 1900 Q45 now with @ 79k and there has been a light ticking sound in 4th gear audiable at low speeds on quiet smooth streets. Well as it has turned out the Planetary Gear Pack is loose and going out.
I have changed the tranny fluid every 15k, but this is a first generation Q45 and starts in 2nd gear. I have read here in the NCIO forums that I should change the ECU so that I get a 1st gear start??
My tranny has been torn down and inspected by a very reputable transmission shop here in Fresno, California. (ARTransmissions) They are going to re-build my tranny and install. Not a repair, but a re-build. New Planet Pack, Clutch Pack, Solenoids, Sensors, and seals. @ $2,400.00 -- They have done about 12 of these over the years... Not that many, and they wanted to replace my radiator... But I am going to have them insall a B&M exteranal cooler instead.
Now I need to modify the ECU. There is a "WOLF" ??? Chip and AutoEnhancement and local aftermarket auto specialties shop here in Fresno. It came out of a wrecked 1990 Q45 about 10 years ago. They want $100.00 for it. This chip will in thier words "Cause a 1st gear start" and it changes the air to fuel mixture? Adds some horse power?
Any suggestions?
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rogertelegan
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- Car: 1990 Q45 , 2003 I35, 2006 QX56,
- Contact:
As for the ECU mod. . . .
It is not a "Wolf" as I thought.... it's a DINAN.
Model a18-a50p63k . It was on a 1991 Q45, which has been wrecked. DINAN is now stricktly BMW. SO this is a CHIP that is no longer available. It is in the Box, in a static bag, and with all original documentation.
Any ideas? I know Dinan has a great repuatation in the BMW market. But any history or experiences with this chip?
It is not a "Wolf" as I thought.... it's a DINAN.
Model a18-a50p63k . It was on a 1991 Q45, which has been wrecked. DINAN is now stricktly BMW. SO this is a CHIP that is no longer available. It is in the Box, in a static bag, and with all original documentation.
Any ideas? I know Dinan has a great repuatation in the BMW market. But any history or experiences with this chip?
The consensus is that the best Nissan/Infinit chips are from JWT usually bought thru Stillen (since many have had problems with JWT service, or lack thereof, going for the same chip thru Stillen cures this).
A member here (Q45tech or aacomp I forget) once tested the Dinan chip over and declared it nearly the equal of the JWT.
Nearly all memebrs here that run a chip run the JWt ECU and some run the JWT ECU/TCU combo.
Fred...
A member here (Q45tech or aacomp I forget) once tested the Dinan chip over and declared it nearly the equal of the JWT.
Nearly all memebrs here that run a chip run the JWt ECU and some run the JWT ECU/TCU combo.
Fred...
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