18, not 16, to drive!

[stutt944]

The point of all this, everyone is different. I know being 15 I can probably drive better than half of the people in this city. Granted, this city is rated #1 on worst drivers in the US, but still. I also know alot of those crap *** drivers and try to correct them whenever possible. I think the laws suck right now as they are becuase I know my life suffers not being able to drive whenever it suits me, if anything, they should allow very rigerous tests to be givin for people under 16, just incase you know they are some damn youngins that dont know crap about crap and dont know the break from the clutch.

just the reason i started this post. (toki is also the wordsmith who suggested my name be SLUTT944.)

does that mean that if you go to the city with the overall "best drivers" you'd be 50% better than 0 drivers, or 50% worse than 0 drivers?

[BaliLover]

Main Entry: free·dom Pronunciation: 'frE-d&mFunction: nounDate: before 12th century1 : the quality or state of being free: as a : the absence of necessity, coercion, or constraint in choice or action b : liberation from slavery or restraint or from the power of another

The absence of necessity, or constraint in making a choce. This is freedom. You have no need to decide to drive and no constraint in chosing to do so. You also liberate yourself from the power of another. By driving, you liberate yourself ever so slightly from your parents, your boss, etc.

And

Main Entry: 2rightFunction: nounEtymology: Middle English, from Old English riht, from riht, adjectiveDate: before 12th century1 : qualities (as adherence to duty or obedience to lawful authority) that together constitute the ideal of moral propriety or merit moral approval2 : something to which one has a just claim: as a : the power or privilege to which one is justly entitled

So..... a right can be defined as a privilege and yet they are not the same thing

I notice that you are 21 and all for putting regulations on a group of people that you are not a part of. Would you be so eager to say, raise the drinking age because many drunk driving accidents are commited by persons 21-25? I doubt it. Your insurance rates go down when you turn 25, so this logic shows that the insurance companys feel that you are a safer driver when you are 25. Why not raise the driving age to 25 then? It is not age, it is ability and maturity.

[89240sx]

your definition of freedom proves that driving is not freedom in itself...

Quote » the absence of necessity, coercion, or constraint in choice or action [/quote]

[stutt944]

****IN A!! RAISE THE DRINKING AGE TO 25!! can you even begin to grasp what that would change? i sure as hell can't. you don't think that the group as a whole (which is why we have laws anyway, for EVERYONE) would be more mature with their drinking at the age of 25 than at the age of 21?

[89240sx]

your definition that you have the freedom to drive whenever you want to or whereever you want to does not make driving in itself a freedom. You have the freedom to drive where and when but within driving there are a lot of limitations.

[BaliLover]

Anything that you are able to do currently, is a freedom because, you are FREE to do it. Take away the ability to do it and you are no longer FREE to do it. Thus a freedom.

[Rex]

To show that this is an open forum to express ideas, I will admit that I now agree that driving is a freedom, with "restrictions".

BTW - I am on the north side of 25 and have lived in very remote areas with no access to mass transit.

[tinted]

Privilege, freedom, right, it is all the same. All of those things can be taken away, partly restricted, etc. Those words all mean the same thing.

Saying that driving is a privilege, not a right; is the same thing as saying that driving is a right that can be taken away, not a right.

Driving is a freedom, right, and privilege but that is not to say that it is not being restricted in some way.

BaliLover :ylsuper

The drinking age law is just retarded. There is no reason for it. If I want to I could go get a beer and not worry about any consequences...but I don't. Meanwhile some of the guys in my class get drunk every weekend and some to class with vodka in water bottles...

[Mr1der]

raising the drinking age to 25 would ruin college as we know it! And could lead to more alcoholism because by the time we hit 25 we wouldn't have drank ourselves sick and at 25 we'd have all kinds of big kid problems to worry about.

I couldn't drink anymore if they lifted the age restriction and that makes me a sad panda:(

[Mr1der]

I am a proud 4 star head.

[IvoryJ30t]

maybe someone said this already, but i didnt read the whole thread, so ill say it again, whats the difference between a 16 year old with no driving experience and an 18 year old with no driving experience?

there are both bad drivers that need the experience of actually driving before they become better

so, who here are one of the people that magically became responsible once the reached the age of 18?

i know it sure wasnt me.

[Mr1der]

parents not wanting to take responsibility of their children?

[APEXi240]

I wish I was able to find it, but I read an article in a New Jersey magazine like 3 years ago that stated first year drivers under 18 are 40% more likely to get into any type of accident (be it fender bender, or totalling cars), than a first year driver who is over the age of 18.

I agree that they should change the law to 18. There are many reasons...

[APEXi240]

Adding more government control NEVER solves anything. Look through the US history and you'll realize this....

Driving is a privilege not a right

Saying government control never solves anything is kind of absurd. The deregulation and privitization of the electrical companies in California was a disaster...that was an attempt and restricting government control...

You said it yourself...driving is a privelge, not a right, and definitly not a freedom. Driving gives you freedom, it is not a freedom. The constitution doesn't say "freedom from walkin your lazy a** to the bus stop"

[Tino]

I see it this way, at 18 theres 2 years of experience... but idk 90% of teenage drivers suck. I think at 21-22 if you've been driving from 16-17 you'll be basically good, unless you suck at driving period. AND I HATE PEOPLE WHO DONT PAY ATTENTION, ESPECIALLY AROUND BIKERS.

[stutt944]

I wish I was able to find it, but I read an article in a New Jersey magazine like 3 years ago that stated first year drivers under 18 are 40% more likely to get into any type of accident (be it fender bender, or totalling cars), than a first year driver who is over the age of 18.

I agree that they should change the law to 18. There are many reasons...

NJ magazine? do you remember which it was?

coincidentally, there is an article in USA Today today about teen drivers and the weak licensing programs. check it out at USA Today, P3A

[89240sx]

parents not wanting to take responsibility of their children?

ya ,.. blame the parents for the crummy **** their kids do :rolleyes

[lessthanjakejohn]

I agree that they should change the law to 18. There are many reasons...

I agree with you that drivers starting at 16 are more dangerous than starting at 18, but as many reasons as there are to change, there are many reasons not to change.

[Nathan]

You CAN blame parents for the crummy **** their kids do, a lack of any kind of parenting at all is entirely too prevalent today. Parent's are frequently selfish and do not make any effort to teach their kids or be parents in any way except the occasional monetary layout for some food in the fridge and a spot for the kids to sleep. That falls over into driving too...not only do not even teach by example, they just dont teach kids or care about them at all.

[Sircnay]

Mmm I think our whole system of testing needs to change. The german girls (who are soooo freaking hot) who are foreign exchange students who came here ***** at me to drive faster when we went driving in my uncle's farm. I was doing 80mph out in the middle of his field and they were wondering why I was going so slow. Not only that but 40mph they feel is like CRAWLING. BUt then again, German testing is sooooooooo much more rigorous than American testing. So retarded. Change the schools! when there's something to respect I'll respect it.

[TurboKA37]

I wish I was able to find it, but I read an article in a New Jersey magazine like 3 years ago that stated first year drivers under 18 are 40% more likely to get into any type of accident (be it fender bender, or totalling cars), than a first year driver who is over the age of 18.

I agree that they should change the law to 18. There are many reasons...

i dont think i can agree with this. i would think that people that have there licenses at 16-17 are more excited about driving and are the people that want to be out on their own more (which means they're driving more often, making it more possible for a accident) and the people that wait till they are 18 are the people that dont care about the ability to drive and dont understand why people spend money on their cars (they wont drive as often, making the chances of a accident much less). u kno the type of people im talking about... thats y i dont think that test is very fair.

[Mr1der]

I'm excited to be driving and I've been driving since I was 15, the logic in here hurts my head, I hurt my head. I think the age should be left at 16 so parents might be able to use the privilege as leverage for better school work and behavior in general. And get old school and light their asses up when they do stupid things behind the wheel....

That's how I was raised anyway, so naturally that's what I believe in, worked for me, for the most part anyway

[Nathan]

German Girls

[Mr1der]

mmmm good like cambell's soup, sexy "angry" accent....

[Sircnay]

oh goodness, they're both REALLY hot and they both have really sexy german accents. But they're not heavy set either. One's a ballerina and the other's a fencer. Mmmm tee hee, one I dance with the other I spar. Woot, perfect for me... now where's that office space picture with the guy saying, "Dude two chicks at once." ...

[Nathan]

I have a like 23 or 24 year old German girl for a Philosophy teacher, I LOVE going to that class...mmmm, sexy.

[Sircnay]

Don't you love how they laugh? Or how they say words like bubble in such a SEXY yet cute manner? Oh man....

[Nathan]

hehehehe, I just like looking at the menu, my girlfriend would kill me if I ordered I try not to pay TOO much attention, wouldn't want to be tempted to try to raise my grade!

[stutt944]

i would. raise the grade, man. raise the grade.

[Mr1der]

I'd move to the HEAD of clASS!!

oh yeah!