i remember a couple years back when i was in drivers ed, the co driver girl scared the **** out of me..
first she was like 3 feet tall, so she pulled the seat forward all the way so she could reach the pedals, this meant her arms were in like a 90 degree angle, rather than striaght..so then the second day we go out of the parking lot and she drove up the curb onto the football field, the teacher kept yelling "STOOOOOOPP GOD DAMNIT" but she floored it lolso then they finally stop and im in the back holdng on for dear life and he says to her "why didnt you stop" she says ''my foot was on the wrong pedal"
so then on the day we went on the interstate.. i allmost **** myself.. she was doing like 100mph and drifting off to the shoulder, she wouldnt slow down
18, not 16, to drive!
I started driving when i was 14 *I did it for a little while then stopped* Then when I turned 15 I started to drive alot. I was careful and was pretty good driver. Then I got my license at 16. I got a 97 out of 100 on the test. I feel extremely comfortable driving. I don't do stupid things. I actually drive slow because its fun hahah.I was into the 240 scene when I was 14 so I was pretty young when I got into the scene.
All in all, age does not matter. Maturity, experience, responsibility do. You can't take a test to determine this... at least not yet.
All in all, age does not matter. Maturity, experience, responsibility do. You can't take a test to determine this... at least not yet.
op.tic wrote:i remember a couple years back when i was in drivers ed, the co driver girl scared the **** out of me..
first she was like 3 feet tall, so she pulled the seat forward all the way so she could reach the pedals, this meant her arms were in like a 90 degree angle, rather than striaght..so then the second day we go out of the parking lot and she drove up the curb onto the football field, the teacher kept yelling "STOOOOOOPP GOD DAMNIT" but she floored it lolso then they finally stop and im in the back holdng on for dear life and he says to her "why didnt you stop" she says ''my foot was on the wrong pedal"
so then on the day we went on the interstate.. i allmost **** myself.. she was doing like 100mph and drifting off to the shoulder, she wouldnt slow down
LOL thats hilarious!
Anyway... I, almost 17, must agree that there are some drivers that like to show off. I drove like a maniac a few times, and got into some s*** a few times.... but after I got that "new driver adrenaline" out of my system.. I started driving like a normal person.
..the point is, car enthusiast type new drivers are gonna think they're the s*** and drive like they own the road for awhile. You just have to stay away from them... ...after they get into a few wrecks, they'll be put in their place(like me), and then they're not so bad.....
-
lessthanjakejohn
- Posts: 4105
- Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2002 6:39 am
I don't feel that the driving age is a problem right now. I'm 22, I've had my license since I was 16, been driving since I was 12.
Adding more government control NEVER solves anything. Look through the US history and you'll realize this. For every problem you solve and freedom you chain, a new problem arrises. People like you who are constantly crying about how certain laws need to be changed and that the government needs more control are why the US is in such poor shape these days. This country was setup for minimal government and now no one wants to take responsibility for their own actions or behavoir of their children.
Yeah, lets be just like Europe because all the countries in Europe are wonderful right?
Be serious, what needs to happen isn't better driving schools, its not more traffic cops, its not a raised driving age, its PARENTS doing their jobs. Thats right, PARENTS.
My dad was a State trooper when I was young, and a Deputy up until a year before I got my license. Just listening to him give instructions as he drove, and listening to the advice he gave when I was a kid made a HUGE difference in my driving ability. He started teaching me how to drive when I was 12 out on deserted back roads but never out in public. He didn't teach me any of the fancy police manuvers, but he did teach me how to drive defensively.
My first car wasn't some moster V8 or turbocharged coupe, but a 1988 Honda Accord Automatic with a measly carborated 1.6l engine barely making 90 HP. Sure, it wasn't as cool as alot of the cars out there but it got me around and gave me some freedom. I still had to follow the driving times which are between 6am and 10pm when you're 16 here so I wasn't out really late partying and yet I still was able to get experience driving at night.
Too many parents don't teach their kids, don't discipline their kids, and give their kid the keys to some V8 musclecar when they turn 16 in some poor attempt to live through their kids.
Keep a few things in mind when you want to take the keys from those younger than you. The people who stock your grocery stores, keep them neat, package your purchases, make your cheeseburgers, fry your onion rings, and scoop your ice cream are usually aged 16-18. By your logic, we've just made it next to impossible for this age group to get or keep a job. Most places don't have public transit, and most parents are working when their 16 year old gets out of school so they are unable to give them a ride to work. When you turned 18 did you think, "Oh wow, now I can drive, I think I'll go get a job at Winn Dixie instead of going off to college?" I doubt it. 16-18 year old make up a good portion of the work force and they usually perform the jobs that those who are older look down on.
Driving is a privilege not a right, but try not paying taxes because you CHOOSE not to drive and part of your taxes pay for roads. Its not going to happen. The roads in the US have been payed for by taxpayers, so in effect, tax payers have a right to use them. Rights can be taken away, but before they're even given? You can have a job at 16, pay income tax, SS, disibility, etc, but you aren't supposed to benefit from the things that your taxes pay for? Give me a break. Okay, can't drive till you're 18? Then you shouldn't be able to tax 16 year olds for the costs of maintaining and building roads, since they aren't able to utilize them. I know I don't want to pay for road maintenace so that other drivers can destroy it while I myself am unable to use them.
Before you go trying to give away more of our freedoms, and complaining about young drivers, why don't you do something to get the parents back in their childrens lives and force them to take resposiblity for their own rather than pawning every problem off as something the goverment should fix.
Adding more government control NEVER solves anything. Look through the US history and you'll realize this. For every problem you solve and freedom you chain, a new problem arrises. People like you who are constantly crying about how certain laws need to be changed and that the government needs more control are why the US is in such poor shape these days. This country was setup for minimal government and now no one wants to take responsibility for their own actions or behavoir of their children.
Yeah, lets be just like Europe because all the countries in Europe are wonderful right?
Be serious, what needs to happen isn't better driving schools, its not more traffic cops, its not a raised driving age, its PARENTS doing their jobs. Thats right, PARENTS.
My dad was a State trooper when I was young, and a Deputy up until a year before I got my license. Just listening to him give instructions as he drove, and listening to the advice he gave when I was a kid made a HUGE difference in my driving ability. He started teaching me how to drive when I was 12 out on deserted back roads but never out in public. He didn't teach me any of the fancy police manuvers, but he did teach me how to drive defensively.
My first car wasn't some moster V8 or turbocharged coupe, but a 1988 Honda Accord Automatic with a measly carborated 1.6l engine barely making 90 HP. Sure, it wasn't as cool as alot of the cars out there but it got me around and gave me some freedom. I still had to follow the driving times which are between 6am and 10pm when you're 16 here so I wasn't out really late partying and yet I still was able to get experience driving at night.
Too many parents don't teach their kids, don't discipline their kids, and give their kid the keys to some V8 musclecar when they turn 16 in some poor attempt to live through their kids.
Keep a few things in mind when you want to take the keys from those younger than you. The people who stock your grocery stores, keep them neat, package your purchases, make your cheeseburgers, fry your onion rings, and scoop your ice cream are usually aged 16-18. By your logic, we've just made it next to impossible for this age group to get or keep a job. Most places don't have public transit, and most parents are working when their 16 year old gets out of school so they are unable to give them a ride to work. When you turned 18 did you think, "Oh wow, now I can drive, I think I'll go get a job at Winn Dixie instead of going off to college?" I doubt it. 16-18 year old make up a good portion of the work force and they usually perform the jobs that those who are older look down on.
Driving is a privilege not a right, but try not paying taxes because you CHOOSE not to drive and part of your taxes pay for roads. Its not going to happen. The roads in the US have been payed for by taxpayers, so in effect, tax payers have a right to use them. Rights can be taken away, but before they're even given? You can have a job at 16, pay income tax, SS, disibility, etc, but you aren't supposed to benefit from the things that your taxes pay for? Give me a break. Okay, can't drive till you're 18? Then you shouldn't be able to tax 16 year olds for the costs of maintaining and building roads, since they aren't able to utilize them. I know I don't want to pay for road maintenace so that other drivers can destroy it while I myself am unable to use them.
Before you go trying to give away more of our freedoms, and complaining about young drivers, why don't you do something to get the parents back in their childrens lives and force them to take resposiblity for their own rather than pawning every problem off as something the goverment should fix.
-
lessthanjakejohn
- Posts: 4105
- Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2002 6:39 am
You need to get from Cincinnati to Columbus quickly. You can either walk or you are free to drive. Driving is a freedom, its part of the pursuit of happiness. Driving is an affordable method of quickly leaving your local area, giving you the freedom to experience things outside of what you are used to.
Being from Cincinnati, maybe you aren't used to small town life where there is no public transit, most housing developments are miles from any shopping areas, and the nearest mall is an hour drive away. Live in an area like this and see how much you can do without a car or the ablility to drive. Hell, it'd be pretty hard to have a nice clean desk job if you had to walk 10 miles to get there in the summers heat, you'd stink pretty bad by the time you go there.
A car is an American freedom, its a passion. It has opened many doors to many people, allowed those from the slums to travel to the big city for work, allows small town folks to live at home but still attend a university if they choose. Without an economical form of transportation, you'd have a very limited view of the world. If you decide that you want to go to the store 10 miles away at 9pm and it closes at 9:30, you have the freedom to hop in your car and drive to it and still make it. Try walking or riding a bike and see how you do?
Being from Cincinnati, maybe you aren't used to small town life where there is no public transit, most housing developments are miles from any shopping areas, and the nearest mall is an hour drive away. Live in an area like this and see how much you can do without a car or the ablility to drive. Hell, it'd be pretty hard to have a nice clean desk job if you had to walk 10 miles to get there in the summers heat, you'd stink pretty bad by the time you go there.
A car is an American freedom, its a passion. It has opened many doors to many people, allowed those from the slums to travel to the big city for work, allows small town folks to live at home but still attend a university if they choose. Without an economical form of transportation, you'd have a very limited view of the world. If you decide that you want to go to the store 10 miles away at 9pm and it closes at 9:30, you have the freedom to hop in your car and drive to it and still make it. Try walking or riding a bike and see how you do?
Arguing that "They'll just break the law anyway" isn't an absolute truth. Sure, its true to a point, there are always those that will break the law, but its not absolute. Thats like saying "Well, crack heads are gonna smoke it anyway, might as well make it legal."
You will greatly affect the social attiude of these kids however. Remember how different it felt going from say, elementary school to junior high? Then remember going into HS and it felt even more different? Well, up until HS you were basically confined to whatever schedual they felt like giving you, there wasn't much choice in what classes you wanted to take. Well, it was the same way when you wanted to go somewhere. You were limited to the places that your parents would take you or when they felt like taking you. When you turned 16 and got your license, you were able to go to the stores when you needed to, not at someone elses convienence. You could go to whatever local sporting events you wanted to whether your parents were tired or not. You could go to local hangouts and socialize with people from other schools and meet new people to date.
But then again, maybe some people like having their parents drive them on dates, and relying on their parents for rides to the malls, and stores, and movies. Yeah, because no one needs the ability to form romances away from their parents eyes.....
You will greatly affect the social attiude of these kids however. Remember how different it felt going from say, elementary school to junior high? Then remember going into HS and it felt even more different? Well, up until HS you were basically confined to whatever schedual they felt like giving you, there wasn't much choice in what classes you wanted to take. Well, it was the same way when you wanted to go somewhere. You were limited to the places that your parents would take you or when they felt like taking you. When you turned 16 and got your license, you were able to go to the stores when you needed to, not at someone elses convienence. You could go to whatever local sporting events you wanted to whether your parents were tired or not. You could go to local hangouts and socialize with people from other schools and meet new people to date.
But then again, maybe some people like having their parents drive them on dates, and relying on their parents for rides to the malls, and stores, and movies. Yeah, because no one needs the ability to form romances away from their parents eyes.....
i dont think the driving age will ever go past 17 or so. people need to drive and kids will eventually realize that if everyone decides to drive without licenses theres not much the law can do about it. i look at it kinda like school was back in the day. kids in school used to be really respectful of their teachers and look up to them as a higher authority. now a days kids do not respect their teachers nearly as much and kids now that teachers really dont have much control over them other than their grades. hows that work into driving age? well think of the kid's respect for the teachers as the respect for the law. sure the law has control over us but not nearly as much as we make it out to be.
"Thats like saying "Well, crack heads are gonna smoke it anyway, might as well make it legal."" - well i dont think thats a fair comparison because making crack legal in comparison would be like saying "u can drive no matter the age". im just saying u have to keep the age fair, if u push it too far or not enough the law will lose alot of its purpose.
anyway its late here and i have to wake up early tomarrow. good debating with u guys. later
anyway its late here and i have to wake up early tomarrow. good debating with u guys. later
I did REALLY stupid things when I was driving from 16-18. However, I dont think making me wait until 18 would have helped because then I would have just had my fun then. I've grown out of it but only because I actually got to do it. The best thing in my opinion is MUCH better drivers education programs that actually teach vehicle handling etc.
-
Mr1der
- Posts: 36020
- Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 8:35 am
- Car: It's still not a Nissan...
- Location: Lebanon TN
Rex wrote:Freedom? Help me/us understand how driving is a freedom.
If you don't understand driving, you don't understand freedom and vice versa.
I view my car as a ticket to any adventure or dream I can imagine. Being a kid in high school is all about growing up and being able to drive is part of that, imagine having your parents driving you everywhere, you wouldn't ever really grow up, you'd still have them doing everything for you and you wouldn't be allowed to go out on your own to make dumb mistakes and foolish decisions to learn from. The only way to really learn from anything is to experience and by changing the license age to 18 will give kids even less behind the wheel time and more time reading a dumb book about driving, I know and you know for a fact that few people really learn much from reading the book to pass the written test for the permit than they will from actually going out and driving. The only thing I can see coming out of raising the age is that 16 year olds will feel less and less like they're growing up and that they're not responsible enough to do anything.
I'm tired of typing much less putting together random thoughts....
-
Charlie240sxt
- Posts: 1089
- Joined: Thu May 01, 2003 1:49 pm
- Car: 95 240sx SE Ka24det!!! 98 audi A4
- Contact:
HELL Y YOUR AT IT MAKE IT 21 AND NO DRINKING TILL 31 JUST CUZ I WANT TO BE AN A$$ HOLE TOO
Sorry for caps but i have read this hole thing and from what i have read this no driving till 18 is bull**** to tell you the truth my mom let me drive 7 miles to the store and back when i was 12 just cuz she knew i can drive it gos by the person not the age dont be and ******* and most of you r right the driving schools now adays suck i am 18 and think that if i was just now getting to drive i would have been alot badder cuz I would of had to wait till now an been really crazy just like every guy on this bored the week thay got ther DL just cuz we never got to before and how would you fill driving your kid around till he was 18 i know if my mom was still driving me around i would have shot someone by now and still be a virgen at 18 that would suck (sorry to who is)
Sorry for caps but i have read this hole thing and from what i have read this no driving till 18 is bull**** to tell you the truth my mom let me drive 7 miles to the store and back when i was 12 just cuz she knew i can drive it gos by the person not the age dont be and ******* and most of you r right the driving schools now adays suck i am 18 and think that if i was just now getting to drive i would have been alot badder cuz I would of had to wait till now an been really crazy just like every guy on this bored the week thay got ther DL just cuz we never got to before and how would you fill driving your kid around till he was 18 i know if my mom was still driving me around i would have shot someone by now and still be a virgen at 18 that would suck (sorry to who is)
-
Onizuka
- Posts: 8450
- Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 5:24 pm
- Car: 91 Nissan S13 coupe SR20DET
89 Nissan S14 hatch SR20DE
Its kind of hard for me to argue either way here. I have been driving for 2 years since the age of 16 and i have not gotten any tickets or accidents, but alot of my peers have.
I think a updated test program more like what airline pilots have to go through would be great. Re-testing every few years seems like a good idea too, anything to get dangerous drivers off the road.
I think a updated test program more like what airline pilots have to go through would be great. Re-testing every few years seems like a good idea too, anything to get dangerous drivers off the road.
Some good points Bali, lemmie see what I can do to respond:
Yeah well, thats a whole 'nother mess of problems. How do you expect to fix bad parenting in America if not through tougher laws and more intensive training? Are you crossing your fingers for some sort of moral revolution to sweep its way across the country? Sloppy parenting causes way more problems than bad drivers, I'm sure if there's some secret to fixing America's parents then somebody would have thought of it by now.
If you want to be "serious," then realise that things dont happen based on some ideology about "the way things should be." They're not that way, and some people just wont listen unless a law makes them. It's sad, I know... blah blah blah, but unless you've got some plan to get parents to do their job, I dont see a better way to train young drivers.
Quote »Too many parents don't teach their kids, don't discipline their kids, and give their kid the keys to some V8 musclecar when they turn 16 in some poor attempt to live through their kids.[/quote]
Again, these (very valid) problems are very easy to complain about, but the question is how do you fix them without imposing more restrictions??
Quote »By your logic, we've just made it next to impossible for this age group to get or keep a job. [/quote]
True, I agree. Thats why I think we should start training earlier, not later. I only ask for more intensive training, not higher age requirements.
Quote »You can have a job at 16, pay income tax, SS, disibility, etc, but you aren't supposed to benefit from the things that your taxes pay for? Give me a break. Okay, can't drive till you're 18? Then you shouldn't be able to tax 16 year olds for the costs of maintaining and building roads, since they aren't able to utilize them. I know I don't want to pay for road maintenace so that other drivers can destroy it while I myself am unable to use them.[/quote]
Heh well this is a different argument, but.... Tax doesnt work like that. You are essentially paying for services, but the deal is you live in a community, you pay for everyone's services. Just because you dont use the roads doesn't mean you shouldnt pay road tax. By your logic, people who dont have kids shouldnt pay school tax, or people who can pay for their own medications shouldnt pay for medicare... the list goes on and on. It's not some sort of a la carte system of services we have here-- you pay one bill and you use whats available to you. Do you think you should be kept up to date on top secret military information simply because your taxes paid for their bullets? No, it doesnt work that way. Complain about that if you want, but this is the system we live in.
Quote »Before you go trying to give away more of our freedoms, and complaining about young drivers, why don't you do something to get the parents back in their childrens lives and force them to take resposiblity for their own rather than pawning every problem off as something the goverment should fix. [/quote]
Good idea man, like "forcing" these parents ourselves is any different than having a goverment force them. By your logic, it's part of their "freedom" to raise their children the way they see fit. If you wanna claim some sort of libertarian view, you might as well go the whole way: cause ya cant have your cake and eat it too.
BaliLover wrote:Be serious, what needs to happen isn't better driving schools, its not more traffic cops, its not a raised driving age, its PARENTS doing their jobs. Thats right, PARENTS.
Yeah well, thats a whole 'nother mess of problems. How do you expect to fix bad parenting in America if not through tougher laws and more intensive training? Are you crossing your fingers for some sort of moral revolution to sweep its way across the country? Sloppy parenting causes way more problems than bad drivers, I'm sure if there's some secret to fixing America's parents then somebody would have thought of it by now.
If you want to be "serious," then realise that things dont happen based on some ideology about "the way things should be." They're not that way, and some people just wont listen unless a law makes them. It's sad, I know... blah blah blah, but unless you've got some plan to get parents to do their job, I dont see a better way to train young drivers.
Quote »Too many parents don't teach their kids, don't discipline their kids, and give their kid the keys to some V8 musclecar when they turn 16 in some poor attempt to live through their kids.[/quote]
Again, these (very valid) problems are very easy to complain about, but the question is how do you fix them without imposing more restrictions??
Quote »By your logic, we've just made it next to impossible for this age group to get or keep a job. [/quote]
True, I agree. Thats why I think we should start training earlier, not later. I only ask for more intensive training, not higher age requirements.
Quote »You can have a job at 16, pay income tax, SS, disibility, etc, but you aren't supposed to benefit from the things that your taxes pay for? Give me a break. Okay, can't drive till you're 18? Then you shouldn't be able to tax 16 year olds for the costs of maintaining and building roads, since they aren't able to utilize them. I know I don't want to pay for road maintenace so that other drivers can destroy it while I myself am unable to use them.[/quote]
Heh well this is a different argument, but.... Tax doesnt work like that. You are essentially paying for services, but the deal is you live in a community, you pay for everyone's services. Just because you dont use the roads doesn't mean you shouldnt pay road tax. By your logic, people who dont have kids shouldnt pay school tax, or people who can pay for their own medications shouldnt pay for medicare... the list goes on and on. It's not some sort of a la carte system of services we have here-- you pay one bill and you use whats available to you. Do you think you should be kept up to date on top secret military information simply because your taxes paid for their bullets? No, it doesnt work that way. Complain about that if you want, but this is the system we live in.
Quote »Before you go trying to give away more of our freedoms, and complaining about young drivers, why don't you do something to get the parents back in their childrens lives and force them to take resposiblity for their own rather than pawning every problem off as something the goverment should fix. [/quote]
Good idea man, like "forcing" these parents ourselves is any different than having a goverment force them. By your logic, it's part of their "freedom" to raise their children the way they see fit. If you wanna claim some sort of libertarian view, you might as well go the whole way: cause ya cant have your cake and eat it too.
Yeah, someones post just reminded me, the schools systems are seriously failing. They are being overburdened and students are rushed through whether they should be or not. We've got kids ready to graduate that can barely form a complete sentence and have no clue what grammer is. On top of this you want them to teach students how to drive?
I think I will teach my own children how to drive, the same way I taught my ex-gf to drive (I was 17, she was 15). Sure it takes time and patience, but you know that the job is being done, and being done correctly. I plan to teach my children whatever I can before I enroll them in school too. They will be my children, and ultimately, it is I who am responsible for them.
I think I will teach my own children how to drive, the same way I taught my ex-gf to drive (I was 17, she was 15). Sure it takes time and patience, but you know that the job is being done, and being done correctly. I plan to teach my children whatever I can before I enroll them in school too. They will be my children, and ultimately, it is I who am responsible for them.
lessthanjakejohn wrote:Driving is a freedom. If you are being restricted of driving, then you can't drive or can't drive all the time. Freedom is being free of restrictions.
Therefore I cannot drive when I am 14. I do not yet have that freedom.
Actually driving is a privalage not a freedom or a right.
Its easier to get parents involved than you think, but it takes a community. It takes a village to raise a child as they used to say. This doesn't literally mean that the village raises the child, but that his upbringing is greatly influence by the whole of the village.
If enough people start criticising poor parenting, and not letting the parents cop out and blame society, things will slowly change. I've run into bad parents, abusive parents, and parents who just "didn't have the time." I've never hesitated to get involved in the lives of others, giving advice, critisism, and help when needed.
It doesn't take much to have volunteer study groups, and afterschool programs. Yeah, you're right, it does take morals, but morals are a cultural thing. IF enough of the culture feels something is proper, it becomes moral. Well, it works in a similar way if the culture turns its eyes away from an immoral behavior and just ignores it. Guess what, it becomes a norm and no longer immoral.
Its not a matter or forcing someone to raise there child a certain way, its a matter of influencing them and making them raise the child at all. It only takes one voice to start a revolution, but it takes many voices to be a revolution.
Its a SOCIAL issue, not a government issue. I'm willing to give a hand-up, but I refuse to give a hand-out. Oh, because its a problem for some people to raise their children, we should take away that responsibilty? Thats like saying it's a problem for me to mow my lawn so I just won't and someone will come do it for me.
Change isn't a quick thing, it isn't an easy thing, but it does happen and it needs to start soon. Saying that because it's hard we shouldn't even try is a bit rediculous.
If enough people start criticising poor parenting, and not letting the parents cop out and blame society, things will slowly change. I've run into bad parents, abusive parents, and parents who just "didn't have the time." I've never hesitated to get involved in the lives of others, giving advice, critisism, and help when needed.
It doesn't take much to have volunteer study groups, and afterschool programs. Yeah, you're right, it does take morals, but morals are a cultural thing. IF enough of the culture feels something is proper, it becomes moral. Well, it works in a similar way if the culture turns its eyes away from an immoral behavior and just ignores it. Guess what, it becomes a norm and no longer immoral.
Its not a matter or forcing someone to raise there child a certain way, its a matter of influencing them and making them raise the child at all. It only takes one voice to start a revolution, but it takes many voices to be a revolution.
Its a SOCIAL issue, not a government issue. I'm willing to give a hand-up, but I refuse to give a hand-out. Oh, because its a problem for some people to raise their children, we should take away that responsibilty? Thats like saying it's a problem for me to mow my lawn so I just won't and someone will come do it for me.
Change isn't a quick thing, it isn't an easy thing, but it does happen and it needs to start soon. Saying that because it's hard we shouldn't even try is a bit rediculous.
89240sx wrote:Actually driving is a privalage not a freedom or a right.
Its not a right, thats for sure, but it is a freedom. Just like going to the grocery store instead of growing your own food is a freedom, and not a right.
If you took away cars, and said that no one could use Govt. roads to travel on, guess what, you aren't going anywhere. There is no unowned or unclaimed property in the US. Even with a horse, you step into your neighbor yard you trespass, you head for the woods, guess what, someone owns it. If have no right to tresspass in your neighbors yard, and if decided, no right to use Govt property, how much freedom do you have? This is why the ability to travel is a freedom, and driving is the most economical readily available method of long distance travel.
Not all rights are freedoms, and not all freedoms are rights.
""We hold these truths to be self evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." - Thomas Jefferson
hey Bali, I'm with you all the way... I really am. You and I are actually pretty similar as far as our social/political ideas based on what Ive read from you.... It's just... are YOU willing to put your kid on the road with those under-educated, immoral, young sports car (or even worse- SUV) drivers while we wait for society to slowly morph into something better?
I mean, its a good idea -this village thing- but it doesnt seem so great when its your kid that suffers in overcrowded classrooms, or your family that gets pasted across the road by a careless inexperienced driver. Quick, goverment regulated solutions seem MUCH better then.
I'm not saying its the RIGHT way, Im just saying... are you going to trust yours to "wait it out?"
I mean, its a good idea -this village thing- but it doesnt seem so great when its your kid that suffers in overcrowded classrooms, or your family that gets pasted across the road by a careless inexperienced driver. Quick, goverment regulated solutions seem MUCH better then.
I'm not saying its the RIGHT way, Im just saying... are you going to trust yours to "wait it out?"
As long as mine are taught by me, I have alot of confidence in them. I've had my share of near misses with drunk drivers and morons with SUVs, but I was taught to be aware of your surroundings, don't drive with your head up you a$$ ya know. I attended school in overcroweded Portables. If you don't know what a portable is, its essentially a single wide trailer with 30 desks crammed inside in 3 or 4 rows. If you want to learn, you can do it without problem. Most schools offer tutor sessions if you feel you need more help, and in reality, if you follow the lesson plan and read the book, you can almost teach yourself. Heck, most college computer classes are self taught, at least around here. "Here's your book, and your assignment, if you need help ask, if not, see you when its done," and the teacher plops down at his desk doing his own thing waiting for questions.
If you want to succeed you will, if you don't, you'll find an excuse. If you want to learn something, you will. I enjoy history and cars, so I read up on them on my own. I'm always finding great quotes.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. " E. Burke
"There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty." John Adams
If you want to succeed you will, if you don't, you'll find an excuse. If you want to learn something, you will. I enjoy history and cars, so I read up on them on my own. I'm always finding great quotes.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. " E. Burke
"There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty." John Adams
THIS IS F'ING AWESOME. you ****heads are all speaking your own mind. and i use the word ****head in the kindest way.
i am kinda wondering why there are no 25< people posting here.
to the mofo that said i should change my name to SLUTT944: yeah, thats right. i get as much *** as i possibly can. its a pity you cannot.
driving is a privilege, not a right. mirriam webster defines privilege: a right or immunity granted as a peculiar benefit, advantage, or favor
i am kinda wondering why there are no 25< people posting here.
to the mofo that said i should change my name to SLUTT944: yeah, thats right. i get as much *** as i possibly can. its a pity you cannot.
driving is a privilege, not a right. mirriam webster defines privilege: a right or immunity granted as a peculiar benefit, advantage, or favor