if it is even minorly fuctional in stopping air from traveling under the car it would increase the force on the front of the car from an itial stop as now the force of gravity has a larger surface to push against. If it folds in anyway(which it clearly is doing even at a stop with its ugly ripples) then it will not maintain a constant flow of air over or under it and create turbulance. enough flexing and it could cause the front end to Lift instead. as intead of being l the flex has caused it to / and force going <- will create lift.

-hood prop
if it does vent hot air, wouldnt a flush hood w/o washer sprayers do almost the same thing. getting any water on their(special on your ebay turbo setup) is going to be a reall bad idea real quick. it still doesnt vent at a point under load(maybe under 10MPH) and in reality I can do the same thing taking my hood off at the track.

most of all if you cant keep it cool enough under the hood during daily driving conditions.... you have bigger problems than just hot air.

extra stuff
http://forums.nicoclub.com/zer...s-ect

Because the people with at least half a brain have spent the last 2 pages talking about how the hood prop pulls air in and only vents it when you're sitting still. I'm sorry your 3rd grade reading level has not been able to pick up on that.

We're not driving F1 cars or anything here. All this talk about under car turbulance and such is BS. In the grand scheme of things your lip really isn't doing anything. I put a pignose lip on my car for the look, not because I live in a fantasy land where I think a 3" piece of plastic is making my street car handle better. Maybe the reason you feel you have to justify your lip with a function is because you stapled a piece of garden trim to your bumper?

you sure have time to make a dumb post

Quote, originally posted by Clawhammer »

Because the people with at least half a brain have spent the last 2 pages talking about how the hood prop pulls air in and only vents it when you're sitting still. I'm sorry your 3rd grade reading level has not been able to pick up on that. We're not driving F1 cars or anything here. All this talk about under car turbulance and such is BS. In the grand scheme of things your lip really isn't doing anything. I put a pignose lip on my car for the look, not because I live in a fantasy land where I think a 3" piece of plastic is making my street car handle better. Maybe the reason you feel you have to justify your lip with a function is because you stapled a piece of garden trim to your bumper?

Ok, first of all can we keep the insults to a minimum, and give me a little more constructive criticism? Calling me a 3rd grader without a brain doesn't help me and just makes you look immature. I'm in college and I can read just fine. I agree with you guys how the lip will not be beneficial when it's bent back where it will just make matters worst..I just think it will keep air out of the bottom of the car at high speeds if it doesn't bend back with the support of an oem lip behind it or L-brackets, etc. Yeah we don't drive F1 cars on here but we still run 10 inch wide wheels and racing coilovers for DD right? Same principle.

Quote, originally posted by 2ndnissan »

What I don't like about the HD lip is the ripples in it. There's one at every rivet location. Even painted there would still be ripples visible. The thinner more flexible "diamond lok" would at least eliminate some of those. A smooth body shouldn't show ripples anywhere. As for the hood prop,I just know I'd get distracted and not tighten the bolts down enough and get on heck of a concussion eventually*s*

yeah the ripples do look like crap I think I'm getting sick of it anyway. I will do the diamond loc lip cuz it looks cleaner and lower the hood like another inch.

I'm thinking about filling the tiny holes I left with a little bit of bondo and using some touch up paint I hope it works wonders..

Want a custom grill for your kouki s14?

btw i doubt it but u think a oem zenki lip would fit? that wouldn't look too bad

I'd like to get the OEM jdm lip but its like 300ish but it will cover them holes up.

yeah this **** is gonna come off soon, looks more low budge than ricer/race/etc. interesting for ****s and giggles tho

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...op:us

what do you guys think? Least this will cover those holes

yes, it will cover all those holes. Call them and ask how much it would be picked up. there number is (909) 773-0820

i never woulda thought the cowl hood created an intake, but now i see how it works

even if the lip was held by L brackets, it wouldnt be helping you out. Sure it would pervent some air from going underneath the car, but it would just create an *** load of drag cause of how tall it is, and the flat shape

you already messed up your bumper, so you can try http://forums.nicoclub.com/zer...age=1 the diamond loc lip, which looks a LOT nicer, or you can shoot for the ebay one

if your getting the ebay one though, it might look a bit off with 16" OEM wheels

either way though, good to see your fixing it up, and good luck with whatever you do next

koukicody, i must have missed your post but thanks for the link/number. I am bummed bout the holes but that lip should cover it up...

I e-mailed the guy and he said he could hook me up I just gotta call tomorrow when they are open so they can check if they have it in stock.

Quote, originally posted by maroon240 »

It makes it look like a jgtc car I was thinking about the gracer lip

I thought this shineautoproject lip was the greddy replica but I think they are a little different...the shineauto lip kinda rounds off at the bottom of he main center opening on the bumper. The greddy one looks kick *** but I still like the one shineauto makes.

EDIT: this is a c-west lip replica, not the greddy.
c-west lip:

First off, the faster air moves, the lower pressure it has.

Second, as the volume of a set amount of gas increases, the pressure decreases.

I could see the hood prop thing working to suck air out, because of the faster moving, lower pressure air moving over the back of the hood and up the windshield. For example, next time you have a soda with a straw in it, blow across the top of the straw and the liquid will rise up the straw. I could see propping the hood high enough or using a cowl-design to induce a swirl behind the propped hood, underneath the flow of air headed up the windshield, possible forcing some fresh air down to the engine and the engine vacuum doing the rest of the work. I think a wind tunnel test on this would be awesome.

The lip-kit theory is supposed to make the front of the car lower than the rear of the car aerodynamically. Since only a fixed amount of gas is entering underneath the front, as it approaches the rear of the car it has to expand to fill the greater amount of space between the road surface and the bottom of the car, thereby creating a lower pressure zone and helping the car stick to the road. If sideskirts were utilized I could see this possibly working, if the front were sturdy enough to withstand highway speed winds. A perfect example would be NASCAR racers, note the lack of a rear valence.

Everyone has their own opinion, but R&D looks cheap sometimes, if no one did anything different we'd still be walking everywhere.

And I hate doing this, but there are several things wrong with this post:

Quote, originally posted by ca18detgabby »

-LIP if it is even minorly fuctional in stopping air from traveling under the car it would increase the force on the front of the car from an initial stop as now the force of gravity has a larger surface to push against.

I think you meant to say inertia from the static air that just happens to be sitting in front of the car when you start to drive, which will be a negligible amount. That's like saying it's harder to START walking cuz you're wearing a big coat.

Quote, originally posted by ca18detgabby »

If it folds in anyway(which it clearly is doing even at a stop with its ugly ripples) then it will not maintain a constant flow of air over or under it and create turbulance. enough flexing and it could cause the front end to Lift instead. as intead of being l the flex has caused it to / and force going <- will create lift.

even if it flexes 45 degrees it's still lower in front than it was previously blocking some air from entering below the car. I can see where you're coming from though, thinking it would "wedge" air under the car, but I think the path of least resistance in this case would still be around the sides of the car.

Quote, originally posted by ca18detgabby »

-hood prop if it does vent hot air, wouldnt a flush hood w/o washer sprayers do almost the same thing. getting any water on their(special on your ebay turbo setup) is going to be a reall bad idea real quick. it still doesnt vent at a point under load(maybe under 10MPH) and in reality I can do the same thing taking my hood off at the track.

You are correct, the lower pressure would pull out air from the below the hood through the sprayer holes, but cmon... those holes are tiny, they wouldn't be that effective at all.

Sorry for picking on you, those things just stood out for some reason.

Modified by dstrcto at 4:45 AM 5/8/2008

"my hood and lip is crazy cool and functional"
"no its not"
"yes it is"
"(technical crap)"
"(more technical crap)"
"i think you guys are right"
"hope u learn your lesson"

My point was with the vents is that...... in reality none of it is really all that effective

specially if this guy can get away with a stock hood. venting is a bit silly when it screws up the natural flow of air over the engine to begin with. Where a running engine gets hot or not..... hell you can go to the junkyard and pick up an oil cooler off a truck and achive much much better performance for at or around 20 bucks.....

Quote, originally posted by Razi »

Dittoz, wanna smell my napkin?

350z wheels x2 sets
s14 megan header and downpipe

if i'm not mistaken look like you have some autozone or walmart fog light.ahha

O please-I agreed to SOME of the things that were mentioned like the lip being non-functional if bent back all the way but i do think the hood prop idea works. I honestly believe that driving at 60mph with a propped hood will vent a lot of hot air from the back and the sides of the hood, as the air is blasting through the front of the radiator.

dstrcto's input was EXACTLY what I was talking about earlier with the lip and hood, I agree with him 100%. I did take into consideration everyone else's opinions but we will all have our different opinions on the matter and we'll just keep it that way.

I took off that HD lip and lowered my hood to stock, it just kinda grew on me that the mods were looking like crap. But i'm picking up the Gracer lip (on the white kouki above) tommorrow so that's the end of that.

Quote, originally posted by brizanden »

hey do u have a base? noticed u have black guages.

yep base model. I like the black gauges better tho anyway

and itll look like my old car

That's a drag car, he runs for a whopping 10 seconds down the track...

Quote, originally posted by brizanden »

haha im thinkin of tryin to get the silver rings off a set of miata guages to put around mine for now cause they look sick

Quote, originally posted by coreansurfer »

gracer lip is awesome all you need is some zenki skirts and itll look like my old car

ah yeah there we go...dammit! I already spent time and money installing some kouki skirts! I wish I had the zenki skirts now they match the rear valances and the lip puuuurrfect...

your car is beautiful man, I wanna lick it same look i'm goin for: stock silvia aero with a few tasteful mods like teh gracer lip. BTW, do those fog light delete "turn signal extensions" or w/e u call it...do they light up?

I wouldn't count of it for much though. Lip spoilers do reduce the amount of air passing below the car increasing downforce, but it is a function of velocity. To get any practical effect out of it you have to be traveling in excess of 70 mph. On the downside you are increasing the frontal cross-section of the car, increasing total drag. In other words you are decreasing your gas efficiency.

Personally if I were you I would have made mounting brackets and attached the HD lip below the bumper so I wouldn't have to drill holes in it.

Cars are all shaped different, so there's no set speed that the lip will be functional at. For most cars, gas wind resistance become a factor at 55-60mph. Also, look through the article I posted on an earlier page...A lip accounted for 25% of the gas savings in the tests they did. So it will actually help gas mileage, you're not changing the front area really, but the decreased air under the vehicle helps out much more than any minor increase in surface area. It's kind of like when you supercharge, it's a parasitic drain on the engine...but the charger produces way more power than the drain.

Aerodynamic drag increases quadratically. As an example lets assume that at 60 mph there is 25 mph there is a pressure of 25 psi. At 120 mph there is a pressure of 100 psi. Going back down to 30 mph, pressure is reduced to 6.25 psi. Even a slight reduction of speed drastically reduces the effect of aerodynamics.

They saw a 3 mpg gain from all their mods driving at 70 mph, about 0.75 mpg gain from the lip. The average speed of a daily driven car would be far less. If we were to assume that a 240SX would get the full benefit of the gain and the driver drove at 70 mph at all times, based on the 15 gallon (or so) tank on a 240SX we would see a gain of about 11.25 miles per tank, a savings of about $1.60 with a base 28 mpg and $4.00 gas.

Realistically the OP will probably see a $0.20-30 savings per tank assuming the lip works perfectly. In a few years the OP might actually break even on the HD lip.

Modified by Darkness and Light at 1:56 AM 5/12/2008

a lip will improve handling too, I saw an episode of "Topgear" on BBC where their race beamer lost the front lip and the front wheels were skidding around the turns..I think anything that will keep the air out from under the car can be classified as a functional lip, and a HD lip that won't bend back at high speeds can do just that IMO.

BTW, the car is back to normal: I applied some bondo on the holes and dabbed some leftover paint I had from painting my bumpers and sideskirts and it looks great-no one will never be able to tell that there were holes there unless they were 6 inches away. OEM never looked so good!

op fixed his car, it looks sexy again.

we've moved on.

you should too.

wouldn't the threads just blow straight back and up the windshield? <Kinda like how the air would escape I would imagine..

I actually don't know specifically what will happen with a propped up hood, only one way to find out.

true, i'm curious myself..