CA vs KA vs SR vs RB, Shut up and READ!!

[ddgsxr504]

Mods please review this and check for grammatical or accuracy errors and put it as a sticky. I have already done a spelling check but I'm not perfect nor am I an expert in all of these engines. Also engine pics could also be added but I'm at work and can't host photos right now.

Obviously this tutorial doesn't dive into alternate swaps like LS1's, 2JZ's and so on but hopefully this will help put an end to the repetative questions as to which engine is better, what's a good motor for drifting ect ect.

Intro-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, you just got your new (old actually) Nissan 240SX. Whether it’s a coupe, hatch, Zenki, or Kouki, it doesn’t matter we all know you sure as hell didn't buy the car just to drive it stock. You want to go faster, turn harder, and look better doing it. We all do, and that’s why you're here.The "big thing" to do with the 240's are the engine swaps, so there is nothing about the turning or the looking better in this thread. With some 5 common motors to choose from, and most people just entering the realm of the S-chassis, some may not know where to start so they begin asking the age old question.... what are the differences between motors X,Y, & Z? So start here, but beware this is just to get you crawling, not walking. The world of engines and swaps is bigger than your brain can fathom right now so just chill out and do your homework, this is only to inform you on the basics so that you know what to search for specifically and quit asking the same questions every week.

The Purpose--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As stated above, we want/like to go faster. Just like any other car the concept is simple, fast equals fun, and we all like fun. The reason for motor swaps is the potential. The KA24E/DE in stock form is, let’s face it, nothing special. That engine has been in your car for 100,000 miles or more and well, no engine lasts for ever. So let see what your options are?

Well there are 3 things you can do:1) Slap an intake, a header, and an exhaust on her and drive her till she dies...borrrring2) Rebuild and/or boost it. 3) Swap it.

An engine swap provides a great alternative to beefing up the KA. The motors available today give you a great base platform to build your dream car out of. Solid, stout, and boost ready, what more could you want. So like most people on here, they choose option 3…. Swap it! That choice in itself opens up a whole new world of many options.

The Basics----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are 5 common engine swaps that are more commonly nested in the 240sx engine bay:

CA18DETSR20DETRB20DETRB25DETRB26DETTKA24DE-T (not a swap but boost is boost)

Each of these motors is unique in their own way and all have great potential. However, it all comes down to what your intentions are for the car, what is the right fit for you, and even though we all hate it, how deep your wallet is.

The Motors----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So you want to know about each motor, well good sit down, and do something we have been asking you to do for some time now... read. Let’s look at our situation again, we want a different engine. Which one to choose, well you sure as hell don’t know and that’s why you’re here. These engines are in order of displacement and price (with two exceptions). They also follow the same order as the engine list above.

CA18DET (89-90 Silvia/180SX)

Okay, here we have a 1.8L 173hp inline 4 cylinder turbo motor. The CA18 is the original motor of the S13 chassis in Japan from '88-90. This thing is pretty stout for a little 1.8L. It's like the little geek in 3rd period Algebra with glasses hiding a 3rd degree black belt. The internals are forged and good for well over 300hp before they need to be upgraded. It's a pretty rev happy motor and is great for a person with mild power goals and wants a good balance. Also, it is the cheapest of the available motors and just as easy, if not easier than the SR20 swap. For all you weight watchers, it is the lightest motor on the menu even though it has an iron block. The motor sits pretty far back in the engine bay and places most of the weight behind the front axles which is a good thing. From a handling point, it offers better weight distribution from the engine position than that of the RB motors, but we’re not here to talk about handling so moving on. The CA18’s however aren’t very common mostly due to their age. They are the oldest of the motors. When swapping it in it’s going to be in your best interest to check rod and main bearings and replace if necessary. Pumps, belts, and some other accessories should also be checked and/or replaced. Another downside is the US aftermarket support for the motor. Finding aftermarket parts isn’t the easiest thing in the world but they are out there. Yet in the end it will still be the cheapest swap.

Good CA18 resource: zerothread/136061

SR20DET

If you haven't heard of this motor then you must have been in a coma for the past 10 years or so. SR20's are by far the most common swap seen in any generation 240's. Why? Well let’s take a look. There are three versions of this motor, well, technically four.

S13 Red Top SR20DET (91-94 Silvia/180SX)

The redtop is the most popular choice. It’s the cheapest of the SR's, with about 203hp (don’t give me crap about the 205 rating because that’s in PS and not HP) with 7psi of boost coming from a T-25 turbo. Basically, these suckers are nice. I personally have had a ride in a base swap and driven one with about 250hp, they pull hard and are a blast. The best thing about this motor is the aftermarket possibilities available. Because everybody has one, there are a zillion parts for them. The install is pretty basic, as it's just drop in and wire up. But of course, with any swap you should know what you're doing. I am adding a little here about the tech part of the swap because I have actually done it. I helped my buddy with his redtop swap recently. We did it in his garage with a lack of decent tools, no power tools, limited space, lack of money, and time. If anybody who was thinking about this swap was worried about install, it’s really not that hard. The swap isn't hard, but yes it takes patience, and if you use that time to do things right the first time, you’ll be in good shape. The best part of swapping any motor yourself is you learn a lot, and that’s what counts the most.

Black Top S13 SR20DET (95-98 180SX)

The difference between the red top and black top is minimal. There are some minor ECU changes, cooling fins on the head (earlier red tops did not have them) and that’s basically it. They are a little more pricy because they are newer. This is also a common choice for the same reasons as the redtop. Good power, aftermarket support etc. Ok enough with these, next.

S14 SR20DET (94-98 Silvia)

So here we have the mid version of the SR. Some of the obvious changes at a glance are the intake manifold in which Nissan switched from the high port to the low port design which slightly affects overall power goals negatively but not enough to worry about. The valve cover is notched after cylinder #3 and you see this hump on the front. That hump houses a variable timing system not present on the S13 SR20's. While this gives you better valve timing and such it also limits your aftermarket cam possibilities. The S14 SR’s are going to get you 220hp out of the box. Some of that power comes from a larger T-28 turbo. Yea all this sounds find and dandy but you are also going get a bigger hole in your pocket as the price of these is a fair chunk more than the S13 SR's.

S15 SR20DET (99-01 Silvia)

Now we’re getting to the good stuff, 250hp on tap and a 6-speed transmission to make that 3500rpm @ 80mph BS go away. There are virtually no visible differences from the S14 to the S15 SR, it still incorporates the low port intake manifold design and has the VVT thing going for it. The S15 however has a turbo upgrade over the S14 SR, a T-28 ball bearing feeding that 250hp. But like always, goodness comes at a price and that fancy 6-speed isn't as strong as the 5-speeds that came with the rest of the SR group. Also to utilize the 6-speed transmission you will need the S15 Silvia driveshaft since it is significantly shorter than a 5 speed one. With all this comes a bigger price too so be ready to bust out the needle and thread to sew up that hole about to be burned in your pocket. The S15 SR is the least common because it’s the most expensive and the S15 SR20’s are a little harder to come by.

SR Wrap Up:

If you're the kind of lazy bum with cash who just wants a motor swap, drop your car off at the local import tuning shop, tell them you want an SR and hand over a few grand. If you’re looking for good power, good aftermarket support, lots of potential, and just an overall good motor; the SR is for you. I think people are running something stupid like 400whp on the stock bottom end so power is plentiful. Also for reference it’s easier to swap the same year SR as the corresponding year of your car.

Oh wait, can’t forget the link. (please, use it and abuse it )http://www.srswap.com/faq/index.asp

RB Series Motors

Inline 6 cylinder turbo (sometimes twin), strong, reliable, and one of the best damn sounds your ears will ever hear. The RB's have that "cool" factor. I know if some one asked me what motor I had in my car I would like to answer "It’s a skyline engine." So let’s get down to it. First off there are 3 RB swaps that are known to be done on 240’s. (I’m excluding the RB30 hybrid as it is a rare swap).

RB20DET

OK, this motor is a common choice among RB enthusiasts. This is the exception of the list order. It is cheaper than the S13 SR20. 2.0L single turbo, pretty rev happy and again, the cheapest way to say "I have a skyline engine". Your butt dyno should read about 210ps (what, like 207hp I guess). The problems with this and all the RB motors is that aftermarket and spare parts aren't as easily acquired as the SR for the US market. You can always pay out the @ss for cool JDM stuff though. Internals here are strong can take a good beating past 300hp. Jumping into the RB realm requires quite a bit more know how for the DIY swappers. You may need custom mounts and/or driveshaft, the KA driveshaft and an R32 cross-member work fine, but its always nice to have a better aligned motor if you get mounts and a drive shaft.

RB20 specific site: http://projectskyline.kicks-***.net/history.html

RB25DET

This and the RB20 are the usual choice of people who do RB swaps. The RB25 is a 2.5L straight 6 single turbo. It’s got more power than the RB20 checking in at 250ps (again something like 236hp). Stepping up your swap skills is on the to-do list for this one. As far as install goes, you do not need custom mounts, the stock cross-member bolts up fine, if you re-drill it about 1" back for the motor mounts, there are no clearance problems except the hood and you will have to hammer out your transmission tunneling to fit that honkin @ss transmission in there so the shifter is centered. A mount kit is still the best way to go if you are willing to pay up. http://www.mckinneymotorsports.com were pretty much the innovators if this swap like 8 years ago so they have quite a selection of parts on their site, it’s goofy right now but you can get their number there.

Another good site http://www.rb25det.org

RB26DETT aka the Godzilla motor

This is the motor God gave to Moses to give to the people. It’s used in the old Skyline JGTC cars for a reason. The RB26 is basically a de-tuned race engine. It was actually designed for race more than street use. It is the most capable RB motor that rolled out of the Nissan line up, well next to the VQ series engines anyway. Although this all sounds great, it is also the most expensive. Installation is also the most difficult of the RB motors so you better know your sh*t. The swap requires some very involved work: modifying an RB25 oil pan or making a custom one, mounts, drive shaft, crazy wiring, clearance issues with twin turbo setup (many people switch to single), among many other things. I have seen quite a few people attempt this swap only to give up, either way this swap is still considered baller. (winks at TopSecret88)

And for all the good stuff about specs and what not...http://www.meggala.com/nissanrb3css.htm ... yline.net/

A great new forum for all the RB motors is here: http://www.racebread.com

A good reference page for all RB motors:http://www.meggala.com/nissanrb3css.htm

KA24DE-T

Turbo KA24s can make very reliable power with little effort and some know how. This isn't going to be for the novice 240sx enthusiast unless you buy a bolt-on kit and take it somewhere.

Parts for a KA24 DIY KitTurbo Manifold (matched to fit the turbo flange of course)Turbo, duh! Oil lines for the turboCustom down-pipe or possibly SR20 down-pipesCustom hot and cold pipesIntercoolerBOVWaste-gate (unless your turbo is internally gated)Upgraded Fuel pumpUpgraded InjectorsSome type of Fuel ControllerEGT Gauge (recommended)WIDEBAND o2 (recommended)New Clutch (recommended)

So there you have the basic parts you need to boost your KA. The biggest downside in my opinion is the lack of boost the KA can take in its stock form, but if you are just looking for some fun 7psi on a SR20 T-25 this set-up will make more than enough "fun" for you. There are a few companies that make BOLT-ON kits for the KA. GREDDY makes a bolt-on kit for the KA24DE so that is an option for you s14 KA owners out there. NOW, if you want to go big power on your KA you have some options but all require a rebuild of the bottom end with some forged internals and a head gasket upgrade. Some of the SR parts are compatible with KA-T's. There are a lot of companies that make good parts for your KA and all that info is just 1 search away on GOOGLE but ill help you get started.

Resourceful Websiteshttp://www.ka24de.comhttp://www.KA-T.orghttp:/ ... _KA_engine

So, What To Get---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now that you have some idea what the hell you are getting into, you should have a better idea on what you want to get. For all you people that ask questions like what motor is better for drifting, shut up and do your suspension and brakes first before you crash your car and that pretty new motor swap. Hachiroku’s can drift with 85WHP, good suspension and an LSD, so the motor has nothing to do with it but we’re not talking about that so back on topic. The logical choice of an engine swap would be one of the 4 bangers for weight and weight distribution reasons not to mention ease of installation.

Now I can guarantee you any question you have has been answered if not then SEARCH!!!! Don’t be lazy, use the search button, and if you have any more dumb questions like which motor is better, which is better for drift ect ect take that crap to Zilvia, 240SXforums, or Fresh Alloy.

Where to get your motor, clip or motor set------------------------------------------

This is the most important step of a swap, if you get some piece of junk off EBAY because it’s cheap, nobody is going to feel sorry for you if it goes boom, or if you can’t even get it to run to go boom. In the car world, yes there are deals out there but for the most part YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!! Whether you get a clip or a motor set is really up to you. A Clip is obviously going to be more expensive but your going to get absolutely everything you need and sometimes some extra goodies. Getting a complete motor set is more practical and is just as good while costing less. Projecting prices for motors swaps is really kind of useless because there are way too many variables. Where you get the motor from, its condition, miles, what you get with it, cost of replacing any parts, if you have it installed etc... So rather than just throw some figure out in the open, check out the links. You can find the cost of the motors and just about any aftermarket parts you want. Use your elementary math skills and have yourself somewhat of price budget.

Here are a couple good, reliable names in the business to get JDM engines from...http://www.phase2motortrend.com/http:// ... jspec.com/

-Jason

Modified by ddgsxr504 at 3:22 PM 9/8/2007
Modified by ddgsxr504 at 4:44 PM 9/8/2007

[sweets13]

NICE!

[Hijacker]

You need an RB25 transmission to use with the RB26 if you don't want to hammer away at your trans tunnel.

You still have to hammer the trans tunnel for rb25 and rb20 transses.

Not a bad writeup. However, I suggest you add in quick referrence high points for each motor. Power/torque ratings. Pros/cons you. You get the idea.

Also, I would take out the in your face, shut up and listen attitude. It's abbrassive and could easily be taken too seriously knowing most of the internet community.

[lofapoo]

This thread owns.

[ddgsxr504]

You still have to hammer the trans tunnel for rb25 and rb20 transses.

Not a bad writeup. However, I suggest you add in quick referrence high points for each motor. Power/torque ratings. Pros/cons you. You get the idea.

Also, I would take out the in your face, shut up and listen attitude. It's abbrassive and could easily be taken too seriously knowing most of the internet community.

You are probably right about the whole attitude thing . Ok, I will edit that later on today, could you delete this thread until I get all the kinks ironed out?

[mval123]

Awesome summary...getting people to read is going to be the hard part, perhaps need to make the title glow in big read letters (even though it still fails on the search button).

[duffman1278]

Wow sooo much information wrapped up in a nice box lol. Finally someone summed it up for all of us to read

[Dattebayo]

You forgot to add some design/power goal differences between the redtop-blacktop SR's and the S14 and 15 motors.

Specifically the high-port head design and intake runners on the S13 versions (just like the KA) and how the S14 and 15 models have a low-port design. The low port design affects the long-term power goals, but not by much.

[driftneil]

Yeah all in all good write-up, lots of info. You can add turbo/oil lines to the list of Ka-t parts.

[Hijacker]

You are probably right about the whole attitude thing . Ok, I will edit that later on today, could you delete this thread until I get all the kinks ironed out?

no way! leave it up and it'll be fine! you're getting great responses so far from the community on it. I'll pass it along to the 240 gen mods to sticky this sucker, and I'll have it submitted for articilizationalism.

[p1rat3]

Add the ls1 to the list, more and more people are starting to do it.

Looks good man. You have a lot more free time then I do lol.

[Ali 556]

you forget these engines :

VQ35DE + TT...also you can strock it to 4.2L

LSx series : insane power @ 2000rpm's

VG30DETT : Duh!!

and 1/2 JZ engines from supra's

Regards,

Ali

[triplesixrivals240]

This thread owns.

[ddgsxr504]

Add the ls1 to the list, more and more people are starting to do it.

Looks good man. You have a lot more free time then I do lol.

Government Jobs lol

[adrianfromthecastle]

so I'm still confused... which one is better?

haha jk Jason, nice write-up

[ddgsxr504]

so I'm still confused... which one is better?

ppsshhh......SR20 nigga!

Oh I updated it as well.... ha ha so now you have to read it again.

[ddgsxr504]

you forget these engines :

VQ35DE + TT...also you can strock it to 4.2L

LSx series : insane power @ 2000rpm's

VG30DETT : Duh!!

and 1/2 JZ engines from supra's

Regards,

Ali

You must be one of those people this thread in intended for then.

It says in the first 2 paragraphs that "I know there are more swaps out there" but most swaps like that aren't done by fresh out of the box 240 owners and a right now all of those swaps are rare and very expensive. Most 240 guys can't afford an LS1/2JZ/VQ-VG swap unless they have silver spoons or win the lottery.

Better yet you write up that portion and I'll add it to my article...

[Dattebayo]

If you are going to write an article next time, maybe you need to think about removing your personal biases and preferences before you start presenting whats out there to buy...

Your extreme bias toward the SR motor is clearly evident all over that article. Maybe you should think about it...

[Camry]

Ohhh so that's what an SR is. So which one is better? 2JZ or RB26?? Answer that! lol I'm jk man, hope this gets stickied for future reference.

[brandonlgilbert]

Awesome write-up dude. I only have one complaint. The part were you said "Here are a couple good, reliable names in the business to get JDM engines from..." and then listed osakajdmmotors.com and jazzproparts.com. Neither supplier is "good" or "reliable". As a matter of fact, they are the "same" company, or they are "sister" companies rather. I have personal experience with jazzproparts.com (where I bought my S14 SR) and my buddy has experience with osakajdmmotors.com (where he bought a GTO engine & transmission). Both of our experiences with these companies were nightmares, but I won't go on and on about it. My point is I wouldn't recommend either of those places to my worst enemy, much less someone new to our forum. Great point about "you get what you pay for". That just about sums it up.

[knx2]

I'm speechless... great work

[DJButton]

Good job Jason, between having kids and writing articles, you are one useful guy! I do agree on some of the links, we can add in our 2 cents if that works I know of some better RB resources etc, but otherwise spot on!

[ddgsxr504]

If you are going to write an article next time, maybe you need to think about removing your personal biases and preferences before you start presenting whats out there to buy...

Your extreme bias toward the SR motor is clearly evident all over that article. Maybe you should think about it...

What makes you think I have some personal bias towards the SR? It may seem that way by the way I wrote the article because I know more about the SR than any of the other motors because I have done/helped perform about 20 of them over the past 7 years. It's true I can write about 3 pages of sh*t I know about the SR Engine and Transmission but that's not the point I'm trying to make here. No where in that article do I ever say that SR's rock and all the other's suck. I don't see you writing a f*cking article, so man up and do me one better.

Good job Jason, between having kids and writing articles, you are one useful guy! I do agree on some of the links, we can add in our 2 cents if that works I know of some better RB resources etc, but otherwise spot on!

Thanks, please feel free to get with the other motor guru's and add more info and suggestions before it get's stickied. The reason I have so much time is because my boy is still in NICU and work has been slow. I brainstorm when I'm stressed!

I only have one complaint. The part were you said "Here are a couple good, reliable names in the business to get JDM engines from..." and then listed osakajdmmotors.com and jazzproparts.com. Neither supplier is "good" or "reliable". As a matter of fact, they are the "same" company, or they are "sister" companies rather. I have personal experience with jazzproparts.com (where I bought my S14 SR) and my buddy has experience with osakajdmmotors.com (where he bought a GTO engine & transmission). Both of our experiences with these companies were nightmares, but I won't go on and on about it. My point is I wouldn't recommend either of those places to my worst enemy, much less someone new to our forum

While I don't doubt that you had problems I know about 4 people that have used them with no problems what so ever. I myself have delt with certain aftermarket parts companies for years with great service only to one day be screwed over the next. Sh*t happens no matter who you deal with but like I said this isn't written in stone so I would like comments and suggestions from all before we post this sucker up for reference.

The purpose for this thread is not to pass judgement on any one motor or anything related to that one motor but to aid in the decision of the reader and then from there they can jump into that motor's subforum to further read about it from more knowledgeable people than me. I referenced some of the SR suppliers from a thread in the SR forum and I didn't pasty a specific company unless they had 3 or more A+++ ratings from our members.
Modified by ddgsxr504 at 5:20 PM 9/7/2007

[ddgsxr504]

Ohhh so that's what an SR is. So which one is better? 2JZ or RB26?? Answer that! lol I'm jk man, hope this gets stickied for future reference.

Easy... 2JZ, while I'm sure the RB has just as much potential I haven't seen many 1300HP RB's.

[sommmatt]

Pretend this post never existed.
Modified by sommmatt at 8:59 PM 9/7/2007

[boriquaS13]

Very nice writeup, I think that people sometimes sit in front of their computers on nico and don't realize how much time and effort it probably took to do a write up like you have just done. Then decide to b**** about what they read, but never take the time to research and post something as informative as you have done. Anyhow I applaud you and great job!!

[ddgsxr504]

Very nice writeup, I think that people sometimes sit in front of their computers on nico and don't realize how much time and effort it probably took to do a write up like you have just done. Then decide to b**** about what they read, but never take the time to research and post something as informative as you have done. Anyhow I applaud you and great job!!

Thank you!

FYI, CA18DET.ORG DOES NOT WORK!

Fixed, happy?

[sommmatt]

Thanks! I'll just wipe that post now. It's an awesome writeup, by the way.

[R6_240sx]

This thread still doesn't answer the question.

Which one will win?

[AE240SX]

LS1, thats who, fool!!! No, really this is a cool article. You should get like a check in mail or something...