Well anyways, you know how it goes. Dyno owner is out of town and so we rescheduled for next Friday.

"If i see him i want to kick him square in the nuts!" (cartman voice)

these runs were around 30psi on e85 which is netting me over 550whp i am sure. this equal length manifold blows my jgs one out of the water. boost was so much smoother...

anyhow i almost died a few times cause at this track they only spray traction compound at the launch pad needless to say half way down the track i got sideways once

anyhow heres the vids, enjoy! (some of them are dark the first few seconds that is because they dont allow cameras in car so we had to hide them)

500 whp chevy truck with nitrous

http://www.youtube.com/v/efjHwcCeIhk

mujstang gt with boltons i bogged out of the hole big time but caught up

http://www.youtube.com/v/nZwoqGN-y_c

70's transam sounded mean but slowwwwwwwww
http://www.youtube.com/v/S9lc6j7rVvk

golf gti w/400whp

http://www.youtube.com/v/QG6JA4QMcts

Modified by drape123 at 9:16 AM 7/20/2008

I tune KA(T)/SR/RB/VG/CA18's! Fast shipping and best price! many references.
I also sell consult cables!
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How much power can you make 850cc injectors on e85? If i can make 400whp with out maxing the 850's then that is what i am going to get. As long as i am good to about 15psi is all i am looking for.

Also how much timing should i pull for 12psi on e85. I was thinking .5 degrees after 7psi so about 2.5degrees off of the stock timing. The ka24e has low comp. (8.6) anyways, so i was hoping that would be safe. I am not looking for big power, just safe power.

also- I believe e85 likes either alot of timing or alot of boost.

from what ive read on other forums, 850s would probably max around 360-380whp.

Do you think i would have trouble controlling them with resistors?

Just think of 850's as 420's, whatever boost you can run with a 420 is about what you'll get with a 850.

As far as timing goes, ramp up the off boost timing and retard it a touch on boost. But only retard it on boost if you've increased the base timing for better driveability off boost. Make sense?

Alcohol burns cold, it likes timing and boost...alot.

WD

Truth is Treason in the Kingdom of Lies - Ron Paul

Can a walbro push 1000cc injectors or is it maxed before that.

To correct WD- 850cc's with E85 are like 590cc's on gasoline.

A single walbro 255 has been maxxed out around 500whp on E85, so for goals around 400 it'll be perfectly fine.

Unless you know someone who can tune 1000's really good, don't mess with them... go with something you know can be tuned. I believe Enthalpy states he can comfortably tune up to 900cc's on the KA/SR's.

Running E85 and 370cc's = 93oct and stock 270cc's

How much power can you make on stock injectors? 160-170whp?

So... run like 1-2psi...? Not a good idea. Do it right and save your engine

Come spring, ill be ordering some bigger injectors and maybe an n62 maf and push the stock sohc to the limits. HP figures will be posted if all goes well.

-Re-do IC pipes to clean up the engine bay
-Buy pig tail for my z32 mafs (and install new injectors)
-Finish installing e85 friendly fuel lines (engine bay lines done already)
-Recirc Dump tube (tired of being loud)
-Put a flex section in my exhaust (all solid pipe at the moment )
-Tune for e85 and have some fun this year (only made it out maybe 6 times this whole season with the car.)

E85 is a 1.60 @ gallon by my house right now

Quote, originally posted by nelson8708 »

E85 is a 1.60 @ gallon by my house right now

Damn dude, that makes me want to run E real bad. I would LOVE to see that kind of dollar-gallon ratio when im filling up at the pump.. Nostalgic or something lol.

I'm sure it wont be like that very long. I just hope when gas goes back up there will be enough e85 plants to keep the prices down a little more than it did this past summer. Everything in colorado seems to run on the stuff so there is a growing market for it. Defintally keep you guys updated on the progress though.

1.60 is nice but, when gas is 2.10 its not as big of a deal. Still nice to see that 1 dollar sign though.

How's that leasing job treating you WD?

Quote, originally posted by "hotrod" »

Quote » 4. When you say e85 burns faster than gas at power mixtures are you comparing it to 105 or 93 octane gas? I was under the impression that e85 burned slower than gas (93 pump). That is a common belief but is not supported by a couple lines of evidence. E85 will allow the use of very large ignition advance numbers but that does not mean it needs lots of ignition advance. In tests University of Michigan did some tests on small engines where they adjusted them for MBT timing (minimum best torque timing) while running the engines on E85. At low loads the engines wanted exactly the same ignition timing that they did on gasoline. They showed a very slight tendency to use less timing under high load. To find MBT timing, near torque peak advance timing until you hit your max number, then start backing off the timing until you can just detect about a 1% drop in torque. That is you MBT timing. Because of ethanol's high detonation resistance it will allow you to advance the timing way beyond that number but you gain very little other that causing huge increases in cylinder pressures and stress on bearings and head gaskets. On a 400 hp engine you would be giving up only 4 hp to gain huge increases in safety on the tune, and protection against things like unplanned lean outs etc. It is a tuning principle that has been in use for over a hundred years by professions (you know like the guys that designed supercharged WWII fighter plane engines, where maximum performance was a matter of life and death). Quote » Under light loads does e85 burn slower? I was told you should add alittle timing in that area to help get some mpg's back. It burns about the same speed as gasoline under light load. Lots of folks do that and it is harmless as at light load you can't hurt the engine with extra timing (within reason). What you are actually doing it creating an artificially high compression ratio under light load by starting the burn early and raising cylinder pressures, and cylinder temperatures for a cleaner burn. Some engines like it others don't care, I think it depends on cylinder head design and quench and the mixture motion in that particular engine. Ethanol's burn speed changes much more drastically than gasoline does as fuel air mixture changes. At rich max power mixtures it burns faster, when too rich or too lean it burns at the same speed as gasoline. If you change your fuel air mixture by any significant amount you need to revisit timing at that load setting too, because you have changed the mixtures burn rate. Larry

Quote, originally posted by "hotrod" »

Quote » The way it was orginally explained to me is that since e85 is a higher octane fuel it burns slower and needs the extra timing.....consider that erased from the memory banks Yes that phrase should read higher octane fuel will allow more ignition advance, but it may not need more ignition advance. Where people go wrong is many engines cannot run ideal ignition timing for the fuel due to its low octane. When they put high octane fuel in it then for the first time, they can run proper timing which in their case is more timing than is possible on low octane fuel. They are mixing up the cause and the effect. The ideal ignition timing is determined by the mechanical design of the engine. How much mixture motion it has, how the cam and valve timing events are timed, cylinder head design, squish in the combustion chamber, etc. and is largely a fixed number. You then try to find a fuel that will allow you to run enough timing to get to that ideal timing to put max cylinder pressure in the area of 12-14 degrees after top dead center. They also forget burn speed changes with fuel air mixture. A rich max power mixture burns quite a bit faster than a lean idle fuel air mixture, so the ideal timing changes with fuel mixture too. That is why entire engine families have very similar ignition timing. You talk to two small block Chevy builders that live 3000 miles apart and I bet their ignition timing recommendations for similar engine builds is within about 2 degrees of timing, frequently in the low mid 30 degree range. The new fast burn heads will be on the low end of that range and the classic muscle car era heads will want in the mid 30 degree range. The old Chrysler Hemi's had less mixture motion due to the hemispherical cylinder head and obstruction of the flame front by high dome pistons, and some of them wanted 40 degrees of advance to make big power. It was not the fuel it was the engine design. Larry

I have also finished up my winter modifications and even got a set of coilovers last week. Once i run the tank empty of this old gas from last season the e85 or should i say e70 will be going in with the 1000cc injectors. I already have made a base map for it.

Wow...guess I missed that one aye...

I actually got laid off 2 months ago. No worries though, I'm doing the Mr Mom thing and I'm getting ready to open up my own business. Turbo's and Subinjection stuff FTMFW

Have the New Bosch 1000cc's been mentioned in this thread yet?

A must have for E85... considering they're the best of both worlds with tuning and flowing up to 1500cc's worth of fuel

Regardless, the new Bosch 1000cc injectors are VERY awesome from what I hear and I hope to be running them on my CA18 this year.

Yup! 100 base fp is alot, but with the lack of 240 fuel systems, I would suspect a dual walbro (intank and inline) or aftermarket external fuel pump (weldon) would be necessary.

I'd do a fuel cell, external fuel pump for E85 when the time comes

The only thing i need to figure out now is why my egt's are so high. After just cruising on the interstate and not even hitting boost i pop my hood and the turbine / part of the manifold are red. You can only see it when its pitch black outside and there are no lights. Cruising afr is 14.5:1-15:1 and my cam timing is correct along with my ign timing. I'm using stock timing values on the light load portion of the timing map. When i had my t25 / fmu setup part of the manifold would glow red but, the turbine would not and that was with a completely stock ecu. I'm going to drive it later this week / weekend and bump the timing at the dizzy 3 degrees both ways to see if that helps. As long as the turbine is not red......... i'll that that

Any ideas

^that is the only part that is red

Meijer needs to cut their grass

Hopefully she will last this season on that boost level....also hoping for around 280-300whp with a little more than that in torque @ 14psi

Quote, originally posted by nelson8708 »

the limit of the stock ecu + resistors is 1000cc injectors ...my idle is around 11:1 but, cruising is 14.7:1. Now that i have the injectors to back up my desired boost level its going to 14psi. I'm wanting to trap 110 at the strip on street tires with open diff Hopefully she will last this season on that boost level....also hoping for around 280-300whp with a little more than that in torque @ 14psi

It would be a good idea depending on your location to keep afr near idle lower, for cold starts.

As you said before that you're running 12.5 AFR at WOT. As long as you are not knocking then don't worry about it, you may want to richen it to 12:1 though to keep your manifold from glowing (warping flanges sucks a**)

E85 Generally runs 200 degrees cooler egt's, and if your manifold is red, something is wrong.

then again, if you are getting a new manifold, swap the manifolds without changing the tune and see if that does stop the glowing mani.

There's a reason I don't like cast manifolds. Bad flow and absolutely have to replace them if they crack.