that's part of why they're so inefficient. it takes a lot more work to move all of the flowing air into the engine individually(roots method) rather than compress it first and move it as a bundle(centrifugal method).

Houston 240sx owners click here!

Texas 240sx owners click here!

Ooops!

Truth is Treason in the Kingdom of Lies - Ron Paul

The Canadians are supposed to be developing a process that will make a special kind of mold do the work on brush grass and trash. This will help bring down the cost.

After all, let's not forget that while we all sit here and talk about the stuff, the Gov't is putting lots of your tax dollars where their mouths are. For instance, a gallon of pure ethanol costs about $7.00 to produce (which is one reason they mix it, the other is it's very low Vapor Pressure), so the reason it is so 'cheap' is because we are subsidizing the hell out of it. Most of this is because it is being made from Corn, the rest is because the process is time consuming, and somewhat dangerous.

So why aren't we the ones looking for the better process, instead of the Canadians? Because the people spearheading this debate are good ol' boys - the American Corn Farmer.

Would you rather be a slave to an Arab or a Redneck?

Stuff for Sale:

!!!BUY MY CAR!!!! 1991 240sx KA24DE-t for sale, very nice!

Stock and Performance Parts For Sale

FS: KA24DE MAFS, Wheels, MORE!

FS: TiAL 38mm, Jacob's i.C.E. Pak Ignition system, Z31 T3/T04b V-trim turbo more

The reason Ethonal is so far behind is because oil makes people rich. I'm not talking about the rich you and I think of. I'm talking rich enough to effect an entire nations leadership.

Billions upon billions covered in billions is the only reason the oil industry is still the main source of fuel. As much as anyone wants to argue why we're in the middle east, the fact is because of the oil..period dot. You know why we don't assist all the other nations in crisis, like Africa...hello, no oil.

I'm all for E85 and getting the good ole rednecks back in charge of our country. E85 FTW baby....better get on board now fella's.

WD

To prove my point, how many of you were talking about Ethanol before gas hit $3.00 per gallon. It is simple economics, Ethanol isn't a good deal until Gasoline becomes a worse deal.

EDIT: Also, I think you know as well as I, WD, that the oil companies are going to be the ones selling us this stuff. So long story short, we will still be supporting the same US-sellout Fat Cats we have been. The difference will be that the decision not to sell out our country will not be 'economically sound'.

E85 FTW...

They tested this a lot before they launched the first ethanol cars here.

There´s only two bad things with E85 in my opinion, thirsty cars and hard to start at winter.
They solved the last thing with heated fuel lines in the Volvo´s.

What´s the normal E85 price in USA? Hard to find gas stations?

In any case my biggest reason why I want to use E85 is because of performance. We all know that if we can use something in our turbo setup that's burns a lot cooler and at a much higher octane we are drastically improving our performance and yet reducing the chance of killing our engines. There will be An E85 240, and it will kick *** I don't care what anyone's point of view is anymore, once you bring Haj into this it got personal.

The fuel lines are only heated the last meter (3 feet?) and heat up in seconds when you put in the key. Runs on battery voltage and got a sensor, never turns on during summer or hot engine.

Repair costs? The car is a pure E85 car. Many stations here, no problem to find fuel.

As far as runnign E100 or E85, the part that fails the most often and the quickest is the pump. For obvious reasons...so I have twin MSD pumps that are external and alcohol ready. I use these pumps with my DIY Alcohol injection all the time.

I'd like to focus this thread on what exactly its going to take to switch over a 95 240SX to run completely on E85. I have two stations right here in Tucson. I'm sourcing a new motor right now, I'm rebuilding an exhaust manifold, rebuilding my turbo and welding 4 injector bungs onto my intake manifold.

This is going to happen, I think it will be a great article to have documented for Nico as well as aa place to start for everyone in KAT to start making good power with just a SAFCII, no timing change needed.

Lets keep this on target and keep the posts literate and concise. Link your resources, and provide as much info as possible. I want to have the first E85 converted 240 to come from Nico...stateside anyway.

Swedish Mike, welcome to KAT!!! I love having input from Europe

WD

More to come...

Hi!

I can write a list of things I do when I convert from gas to E85.

* Bigger injectors or adjustable FPR, injectors are the better option.
* Remove/replace aluminum parts from the inside of the tank. (Normally nothing)
* Change fuel filter before and a few miles after the conversion. E85 will clean your tank and lines.

If you are extra careful and got a newer car, make a custom ECU remap on a dyno and check AFR. 11:1 is optimal and 8 to 9:1 is safe on a turbo car.

On my daily drivers (N/A´s) I only swap injectors and filters, no problems yet.
Pretty sure some cars might run into fuel pump problems but not Volvo or Nissan (so far...).

/Mike

I'll also be running Marvel Mystery Oil in my gas tank. I used to used this when I ran methonal. It keeps all of your parts from becoming correoded. So the pumps will last and the lines should be good to go.

I'm opting for 8 42lb injectors for fuel supply. I have 4 installed already and I'm in the process of adding an additional 4 to make up for the additional 30% required. That way I have some room to crank up the boost.

My personal goal is over 300WHP with 10 psi or less.

WD

E85 FTW baby

Nothing will get damaged, lower EGT and all. No problem with ODB.

I actually took a well tuned Cosworth to smog inspection a few years ago, only an empty cat cover on a 3" exhaust system. Passed with better numbers than stock!

True. And E85 get thick if you cool it down a lot, hard to get good injector spray pattern.

But this is nothing you have to worry about at summer or warm winters, only here where the polar bears rule.

I am not saying it is not viable. Also, with the right advances, it could be where we go (afterall, we lost power/mileage at first with injection too), but we are just not there yet. The people who make the advances will be those who have done so for years - the oil companies. And they are going to do so on their schedule, not ours.

I however, am excited to see the day when I can pull into an E85 station, but that is not happening tommorrow.

Modified by Chezedik at 1:06 PM 12/14/2006

Where do you guys buy E85? Not gas stations?

Price per gallon?

We get our E85 right from the gas station Mike. I think its ranging from $2.50 to $3.00 a gallon. Which is cheap in comparison to 105 Octane race gas.

I'm getting stoked about this project.

WD

anyway, I have never seen an E85 pump on the east coast, I think right now its mostly a mid-west type thing.

Really nice to read about E85 at a US forum, I thought we were the only fans.

The big hp guys use Mallory or MSD external pumps and the 500 hp guys normally use dual internal Bosch 040 or external 044 pumps.

Right on man this is going to be very interesting

Quote, originally posted by WDRacing »

I am not retarded, just realistic. I love the idea of the stuff, and to be honest, if I could find E55 then I would run it, maybe even E85. But the fact that I cannot find it makes this whole conversation theoretical. Also, it would have to be economic. Here is Pitt, we have E15, and I run it all of the time. Why? Because 89 octance is cheaper than 87 octane. Also, since it is such a low concentration of Ethanol it IMPROVES mileage on cars that run rich.

I am just saying that an E85 future looks great, but it isn't in the US just yet. I find the arguement slightly less useless then the discussions over Hydrogen (which is 50-100 years out, at best). Basically, people have been talking about using Ethanol since the first Oil Chrisis, but when the price of gas went down/availability went up, support all but dried up. As we all know, history repeats itself.

That time Arabs were to blame, and this time they may not be, but the result will be the same, we are talking about something that is another 10-15 years out, if we are lucky.

You and I (and everyone else in here) knows this will happen, the question is when. The answer to that question is when the $G > or = $E * .8. That is, when the price of gasoline is greater than or equal to the price of Ethanol minus the expected economy loss of 20%. It will not happen a day sooner. This may be through improvements in process, or more likely, when the cost of fuel becomes unreasonable. Why would the oil companies or anyone else for that matter spend money researching improvements in Ethanol production when Gasoline is cheaper.

Humans are not a group of people to be proactive, as a rule. I do not know what would be different about this situation, unless either the price of Gasoline becomes an issue, or the EPA's emissions regs become so stringent that it can no longer be done without Alcohol.

The reason you all even know about this (with the exception of Swedish Mike) is because the media has been making a big deal of it, in a rather uniformed way. The reason you see it in Cali is because of new regs requiring the removal of MTBE from fuel, and the need for a new 'oxygen adder'.

WD, I understand that you are new to the topic, but try to be more realistic. It is good that people are getting on board, but it will take more than that. If this is something you are TRULY ready for, then put your money where your mouth is. Buy more expensive fuel ($.75 to the gallon more in most places with a 20% decrease in mileage, remind you), and/or donate money to research more cost effective ways to produce it. Otherwise, everyone here is just blowing smoke.

If you still think my point retarded, feel free to Hasselhoff me.

So E85 is not that new and I think its going to make a big hit a lot sooner then anyone thinks. And when it hits, well Il be ready for it.

Oh and the compatiblity issues with E85 of everyone saying how corosive it is and this and that thats all ****in BS. Unless your car stands around for a long time with that **** in the lines then yes you will be in trouble but if you let it evap you are good to go and when I mean long time I mean like a year at a time. Next time you go to a liquer store get some everclear, get a rubber hose pour it in there let it stand for 2 weeks and tell me what happend. Also to make a car E85 compatible is a LOOOT easier then everyone thinks.

Sorry to say well Im not, but E85 is here and it's here to stay, I dont know where you are from but here every one knows about it and talks about.

I'm not entirely new to Ethonal, granted my knowledge is mostly related to running eother a full methonal system or a methonal injection. But they are very similar.

My main goal with the ethonal is only to run it in my car and make alot of power doing so. I could really care less if the country end ups going with. Would it be nice, hell yes it would, but I'm not holding my breath.

I love the fact that I can run 105 octane fuel in my car for a fairly cheap price compared to 105 octane race fuel. Hell, If I run a pump gas combo, it won't corrode anything, it will start fine, I won't have to swap anything and I'll still have like 98-99 octane. For every octane point you increase, you can raise your boost about 1 psi. I know thats not alot, but it could end up being 50WHP or so...

Thats quite a bit in the grand scheme of things.

WD