Yet another Timing chain guide thread...

[Ozzie]

Well, I've had to bite the bullet, whip out the mastercard, and fork out for a timing chain guide kit.....

The Q has started making sounds which I am not fond of!Using a stethoscope, we have narrowed it down to the RHS....

Sounds like the chain is occasionally hitting metal somewhere, and it's not a rhythmic sound. It's random, and usually a couple of ticks at a time..... then nothing... then three more.... nothing..... one....

I can imagine the chain flopping around a tiny bit, and occasionally hitting something....

The parts should arrive in 4-10 working days... so i have been told.

I ordered a set of new plugs while I was at it. (May as well bundle them into the same package)

Updates to follow.....

I have a couple of walk throughs on how to do it, printed from q45.org, but if anyone has pointers or suggestions they wish to pass on, then by all means, put them here.

[PopPop]

Are you removing your valve covers also or just front cover?

[Ozzie]

Just the front cover..... my valve covers aren't leaking any oil, so I don't see the need

[squeefoo]

Clean out the socket head bolts really well (that hold on the guides) and tap/hammer the hex socket in until it seats. Strips easily.

Make a diagram of the cover and measure/mark/poke the bolts through so they don't get mixed up, they must go back in the exact location. I made a chart with measurements. 32 bolts X 6 different lengths = lots of times to strip the block.

Gently tap the front edge of the pan down so you have room to fit the cover back in (about 5mm or so), it sucks back up with the bolts.

[PopPop]

Are you removing your valve covers also or just front cover?

Use a 5mm allen socket instead of allen wrench! Make sure if you use wire ties you position them out the way of new parts! Old style guides are different in size from the new Tension side guides and if you leave no slack in chains it will be hard to maneuver Tension Side Guides around chains! I don't like the red RTV so I would use something else like Permatec Gray! If you haven't replaced water pump you should plus gives more space to work around Lower cover! Drain all Anti-Freeze even from block freeze plugs to keep matting surfaces from contamination! I also checked timing with timing light before and after finishing work to make sure they are the same! Be careful not to pinch cylinder head gasket when installing front cover back on engine! Check position of front crank seal before removing and re-install exactly the same way! Make sure you have a feeler gauge to set oil pump chain to upper guide chain clearance! I use a two foot 5/16" piece of hose to fish out any broken guide pieces from oil pan!

[Ozzie]

Thanks guys... lots to keep in mind...

I saw a pic that someone else took, of a piece of cardboard with a diagram of the engine on it, with the cover bolts poked thru in the approx place they came from..

Golden idea!

Many things to keep in mind to make the parts exchange run smoothly...

any other worthy pointers.... don't be afraid to show them here!

[nuQ]

when i had my guides changed, one had started to dig into my oil pump, scratching the outer housing. i changed the pump, just to be on the safe side. just so you know, the driver side guide was in pieces, laying in the oil pan. hope this helps!

[DrewQ45]

Oz,

Stop driving the car till you get this fixed. Things can go downhill fast!

...Drew..

[Bodge420]

How many miles does your Q have & where do you live, if you dont mind me asking?

[Ozzie]

I am avoiding driving at all costs....

And my Q has done 115,XXX Kms, which is nearly 72,000 miles

And I live in Adelaide, South Australia

[Flagship-Q]

Use a 5mm allen socket instead of allen wrench! Make sure if you use wire ties you position them out the way of new parts! Old style guides are different in size from the new Tension side guides and if you leave no slack in chains it will be hard to maneuver Tension Side Guides around chains! I don't like the red RTV so I would use something else like Permatec Gray! If you haven't replaced water pump you should plus gives more space to work around Lower cover! Drain all Anti-Freeze even from block freeze plugs to keep matting surfaces from contamination! I also checked timing with timing light before and after finishing work to make sure they are the same! Be careful not to pinch cylinder head gasket when installing front cover back on engine! Check position of front crank seal before removing and re-install exactly the same way! Make sure you have a feeler gauge to set oil pump chain to upper guide chain clearance! I use a two foot 5/16" piece of hose to fish out any broken guide pieces from oil pan!

Man, this is awesome info you just don't get from the FSM! I'm about to embark on the same journey and I can tell ya, I'll be studing this and other threads closely! Thanks again for all the info.

[Ozzie]

This is the exact reason I ask anyone who has done it to contribute any handy hints....

Could be added to the Article on q45.org if anything useful comes out.....

[Jesda]

Just a few short years ago, DIYers didn't dare replace their own guides. Now people on NICO are saving their Qs by themselves.

[gniknave]

Random tips

Don't forget the pry bar. Pry at the lower right hand corner of the timing cover (from underneath - look for the tab), and pry from above down on the lower left side of the timing cover. You pry at the left side by pushing the pry bar down and towards the engine instead of away. Took me 1 minute to remove the timing cover using this procedure (once the bolts were off).

When using an allen socket, use a hammer to tap the socket into the guide bolt to loosen the threads a bit. Then when attempting to remove the guide bolt, apply a LOT of pressure with one hand pushing straight on the head of the ratchet you're using, while using the other hand to turn. This will keep you from stripping the bolt.

[Ozzie]

Just a few short years ago, DIYers didn't dare replace their own guides. Now people on NICO are saving their Qs by themselves.

Ahhhhh, the magic that is Gulati (and Stinson)It's a wonderful thing.... people fixing their own cars.....But some lucky people get a gem dropped right into their laps!!!!(A sand coloured, pie panned, gem!)

[Ozzie]

Currently halfway through the job, putting the cover back on now.....

LHS straight guide was destroyed!!!!!!

RHS straight guide had a large chunk broken off, resting on the oil pump chain guide.... probably the HORRIBLE noise I heard on the way to work one day, which made me almost poo myself, was this guide breaking, and the piece wedging itself where we found it....

all new guides on... A. OK....

We are now at reassembly stage....

The most helpful piece of info was tapping the front edge of the oil pan down to make room for the cover to go back on......

REMEMBER THIS!!!!

Another Q saved by NICO!

[elwesso]

wooohoo!!!!!!!

[squeefoo]

The most helpful piece of info was tapping the front edge of the oil pan down to make room for the cover to go back on......

REMEMBER THIS!!!!

Glad I could help!

[96Qowner]

Glad you got to it in time. I see entirely too much of this on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...wItem

[Q_SHIP]

Just a few short years ago, DIYers didn't dare replace their own guides. Now people on NICO are saving their Qs by themselves.

Although I have never done this job, I never thought it looked to hard. I don't see why more guys arent doing the job themselves.

[Ozzie]

Modified by ozzie! at 9:09 AM 4/7/2007

[elwesso]

Although I have never done this job, I never thought it looked to hard. I don't see why more guys arent doing the job themselves.

its definitely not for the feint of heart, you gotta have some experience working on cars before you attempt this...

[Q_SHIP]

its definitely not for the feint of heart, you gotta have some experience working on cars before you attempt this...

Well maybe thats why then. I work on my own stuff unless I don't have the time.

[elwesso]

just to expand on what you were thinking, it is a fairly straightforeward job, but theres a lot that cna go wrong in the process

[squeefoo]

just to expand on what you were thinking, it is a fairly straightforeward job, but theres a lot that cna go wrong in the process

Might make an interesting article as addenda to the existing one (hint) A check list of do's and don't's. Easy to research too....

Yes even after doing a few, there is a relatively high pucker-factor.

...not quite to the point of cramping however.

[maxnix]

You must get all the pieces out of the sump or risk oil starvation destroying your good efforts.

[Ozzie]

Has been running ok for god knows how long on broken guides....So the pieces in the sump aren't a huge concern, (I tried scraping them out with a piece of hose, as suggested, no pieces found)

I will be dropping the oil pan for the next oil change, due in 3 weeks....Till then, I intend on taking it easy with my driving, as before when the guides were being shipped...

All up and running, and feels like it has the low down power it used to have again....

The place i found the large broken piece suggests that the other pieces could have been caught the same way, and ground down to granules by the chains... In which case, the may have made it to the oil filter in a grit form...

I guess I will know for sure in about 3 weeks!

[maxnix]

1.) Has been running ok for god knows how long on broken guides....So the pieces in the sump aren't a huge concern,

2.) I will be dropping the oil pan for the next oil change, due in 3 weeks....Till then, I intend on taking it easy with my driving, as before when the guides were being shipped...

3.) The place i found the large broken piece suggests that the other pieces could have been caught the same way, and ground down to granules by the chains... In which case, the may have made it to the oil filter in a grit form...

4.) I guess I will know for sure in about 3 weeks!

1.) Then why did you change them? Get my drift?

2.) Oil is till pumping, even at idle.

3.) Why you want to drop your sump and examine your oil pump. If it injests grinds, may be prematurely worn. Hope you get the main crank bolt torqued to specification.

4.) Or maybe sooner, but I hope not.

[DrewQ45]

Good job Oz. Must feel good to know that you saved your car from imminent death. Good to know that the knowledge you gained from Nico saved another Q.

I had my guides done at T3... at the time Nico didn't exist, just the yahoo board... and there wasn't the glut of info that is available now in an organized and searchable format. Besides...it was the first time I was taking it to a shop and wanted it looked over by professionals. At this point, I'd probably do it myself since I have become cheaper in my old age.

..Drew....

[elwesso]

heres my humble opinion...

Chunks really big will be on the top level on the oil pan will not be big enough to get clogged in the oil pickup. The small chunks can be taken care of by an envirolution flush, and will be washed completely away