Obama: "It's embarrassing. It's embarrassing when when, uh, yew, Europeans come over here, they all speak English, they speak French, they speak German, and then we go over to Europe (pause) and and, aw, ur, aw, all we's can say is Marci-boo-coup"

Let me tell you something, BO. I'm not EMBARRASSED of anything.

Here's the deal. I have a firm grasp of the English language. I've heard you butcher it a few times in your speeches. I don't hold that against you, it happens (see above - "all we's can say" - LOL). I can probably hold my own against you on any standardized English Composition test you bring my way. I don't HAVE the luxury of a fancyass school, but I can write my tail off. In English.

I've absorbed enough Spanish to help out the 50%+ Hispanic population of my beautiful city here, but I'm sure as hell not "embarrassed" that I'm not fluent.

Sorry you're so "embarrassed" of your country that you propose to LEAD, Senator.

Those Europeans speak English because it is a WORLD language. Sorry, but the world economy functions in English.

Perhaps you should go back to the history books and refresh your memory on the Great Immigration periods where everyone flocking to Ellis Island LEARNED ENGLISH OR STARVED. My Pops was one of them. They even CHANGED HIS DAMN NAME.

THAT is embarrassing. How would YOU like it, Senator, if I changed your Daddy's name to "Spencer Whitebread" when he set foot on US soil?

YOU don't speak a foreign language, fool. Hell, the guy you make fun of for being a doofus (GWB) speaks fluent Spanish. That's one more foreign language than you actually speak. Who's dumb now? ANSWER THE QUESTION SENATOR.

It gets better, folks:

Oh wait - You CLAIM you spoke fluent Indonesian as a child? LIAR. Your own teachers have confirmed this. Ohhh, boy. That's so sad.

On top of THAT, you SUPPORT (with some revisions) No Child Left Behind (thanks GWB). So, since you think we "retarded Americans" need to learn a foreign language, HAVE YOU EVEN READ NCLB? Where in the NCLB Act makes foreign language study more accessible for average Americans? Go ahead, I've read it - at length. I'll await your brilliant response.

Oh, you wouldn't know, or care - Your kids go to private schools, where they're immune to NCLB. Gee. Guess you should STFU then, since it doesn't apply to you OR your non-foreign language-speaking kids.

So you can roll your "embarrassment" up in a big ol' ball and shove it up your pompous a$$, because this is America, and we speak English here.

Quit lying to people. Quit asking my left-leaning friends to believe your hogwash. They're smarter than you give them credit for, Obama.

Your uncle didn't help liberate Auschwitz, you never spoke Indonesian, you didn't "sacrifice" to "make it", the Kennedys didn't bring your Daddy to the US, and your "embarassment" of this great country should tell everyone reading that you're just another hypocritical politician, saying anything you can to get into office.

Senator BO, when you refer to us as ignorant Americans who "...have antipathy for those that are unlike them", I'm proud to count myself in that group. I DO have antipathy for people who are unlike me - Namely, liars.

</rant>

God bless our candidates, our political process, and above all, our great flawed Country.



Post Title: Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (AZhitman)
Posted by: 96Qowner at 1:30 PM 7/10/2008

I'm a little worried. It appears all these people who love Obama don't know anything about him, and DON'T CARE that they don't.

Wow.



Post Title: Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (AZhitman)
Posted by: rn79870 at 1:40 PM 7/10/2008

Being a candidate requires that you think on your feet as you speak to countless audiences. It's pretty hard to not trip up once in a while so I think it's more important to concentrate on the message rather than a literal interpretation of the words.

Post Title: Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (96Qowner)
Posted by: rn79870 at 1:43 PM 7/10/2008

"There are none so blind as those who won't see." The willful refusal of knowledge is a sign of excessive conservatism and stubbornness, especially in American culture where to know is all.



Post Title: Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (rn79870)
Posted by: AZhitman at 1:47 PM 7/10/2008

Good God.

"Willful refusal of knowledge"? I just pointed out FACTS. Take 'em with a spoonful of sugar if you have to, but you gotta take 'em.

Could it be that he's really a liar and a clown, and the left is unwilling to see it?

Don't go spinning this one.

Say what you mean, and mean what you say. REAL MEN DON'T BACKPEDAL.

QUIT MAKING EXCUSES for him. You guys brutalized GWB when he used a "made-up" word, and that was innocent. If this was a court of law, he'd be charged with PERJURY.

LIAR.



Post Title: Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (rn79870)
Posted by: AZhitman at 1:50 PM 7/10/2008

Really?

I'm ready to hear this one, as is my GF, who's an Administrator and long-time teacher.

Bob, you're exceeding your personal grasp of the issues here by getting all partisan.

Have YOU read NCLB? Do you know its strengths / weaknesses? Were you aware that BO supports it, while Hillarious wanted to chuck it completely?



Post Title: Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (AZhitman)
Posted by: mcheddadi at 1:56 PM 7/10/2008

Qui sait, p-e qu'il a un compte sur NICOclub lol.

je me demande ce qu'il conduirait...je le vois trop dans une g37 berline lol, je sais pas pourquoi



Post Title: Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (rn79870)
Posted by: wingFeather at 1:59 PM 7/10/2008

But if that is what Obama is stating here, then why not say it with less ambiguity? Why not say "I feel that all Americans should be forced to learn every language on this planet."

This is the same anti-American nonsense I hear parroted from (the majority) liberals everywhere I've been. "Europe is so far advanced, and America sucks." If Europe is indeed better, then why not move there? Leave America for us Americans who are happy with it



Post Title:
Posted by: AZhitman at 1:59 PM 7/10/2008

Mandarin Chinese is the most popular first language on the planet, beating out English by 500 million speakers.

And it's the second-most-common language on the Internet (English is first).

Guess what? China now requires most of its students to learn English.

Then again, what do they know.

Merci Beaucoup indeed, Senator.



Post Title: Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (mcheddadi)
Posted by: AZhitman at 2:01 PM 7/10/2008

Don't you talk to me like that, son. I'll slap the sh....

Wait.

I have no idea what you said.

Post Title: Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (wingFeather)
Posted by: AZhitman at 2:05 PM 7/10/2008

Agreed.

And NCLB is a step in the right direction. It's FAR from perfect. But WHAT program is, in its initial phase? It needs work. It'll be great.

I give kudos to the Senator for supporting it. But he'd claim he was an Eskimo before he gave credit to the administration that passed it.



Post Title: Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (mcheddadi)
Posted by: wingFeather at 2:08 PM 7/10/2008

Je suis en ignorant Americaine que Obama a parle.



Post Title: Re: (AZhitman)
Posted by: rn79870 at 2:17 PM 7/10/2008

How convenient to dismiss it so easily.

Hope my kids don't grow up to speak his language... I think it's called LIAR.

You said it quite well in another thread:

Quote, originally posted by rn79870 »

And do they apologize when they are wrong? Not.

Post Title: Re: (AZhitman)
Posted by: rn79870 at 2:33 PM 7/10/2008

It's called politician. All of them learn it in their 1st. year and perfect it the longer they stay in office. Once a politician has been in office for 20 years he is so good at it, one can rarely tell when he speaks it.



Post Title: Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (rn79870)
Posted by: audtatious at 5:23 PM 7/10/2008

Wouldn't it be better to concentrate more on the huge dropout rates for High Schools instead of trying to set a direction to learn a foreign language? Hell, 40%+ of kids who graduate can't hold a tune, nonetheless hold an intelligent discussion on anything.

Quote, originally posted by rn79870 »

Being a candidate requires that you think on your feet as you speak to countless audiences. It's pretty hard to not trip up once in a while so I think it's more important to concentrate on the message rather than a literal interpretation of the words.

Obama gets a pat on the back with a "we all make mistakes" while Bush gets thrown under the bus......Business as usual.



Post Title: Re: (rn79870)
Posted by: AZhitman at 6:40 PM 7/10/2008

So, should we vote for the guy who lies the MOST or the BEST?

Or was that a backhanded jab, claiming J-Mac is so old, and therefore such a good liar that even the supposedly "intellectually superior" Lefties can't tell?

Either way, it's pathetic.

Sorry Bobby - Your guy's house of cards is coming down.



Post Title:
Posted by: skylndrftr at 1:37 AM 7/11/2008

Can't argue with the stats but can aruge with your conclusion. What those numbers say to me is that other countries are making an effort to allow their citizens to communicate on the world stage. English has become the wrld wide language of international discourse for the most part, but that doesn't mean we can flake out and say good enough. Just because they speak our tongue doesn't mean we shouldn't speak their tongue. The company I work for right now is opening a factory in China. Yes they can converse in english with the engineers we send there, but its limited, so what happens is we train our engineers to speak Chinese...with two people sharing two half languages we have a lot clearer communication and if nothign else it is a sign of respect for them and their culture that we are making the effort just as they did.

You should see the lab reports I get stuck grading, they show a complete lack of good english. Your GF may have her opinion but I have my own and I hae a personal grasp on this one both in a job and in academia



Post Title: Re: (skylndrftr)
Posted by: audtatious at 6:24 AM 7/11/2008

And guess what liberals? Throwing money at schools isn't going to help. There needs to be a dramatic clean sweep of the system. Administrators need to take less of the pie, and teachers need to teach (instead of ranting all day long about how Jesus was a lunatic & how 9/11 was Bush's conspiracy to increase oil wealth).

Obama has proven that he takes money from hard working Americans like me & usees it to pad the pockets of the status quo.



Post Title: Re: (skylndrftr)
Posted by: wingFeather at 6:52 AM 7/11/2008

Press one for English...

I think liberal America has done a GREAT job making sure that Americans can speak other languages. As we all know, the world speaks Spanish (LOL). Pardon my outrage at the absurdity of all this, but English is a second language now. Liberals have been placing more importance on sex education, evolution, and SPANISH. We need to reform the entire school system before we throw "mo' chedda" at them



Post Title: Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (AZhitman)
Posted by: Repo Man at 8:56 AM 7/11/2008

Some say Obama's critics have taken their eye off the ball in focusing on his associations with the Rev. Jeremiah Wright and William Ayers, thus giving his far-left policies a pass. But that's a false choice.

Those criticisms would have more validity but for the fact that Obama's associations and his approach to policy are inextricably intertwined, flowing from a particular -- and consistent -- mindset.

It's no accident that Obama sat for 20 years and had his children baptized in a church whose pastor revved up his congregation by denouncing America with expletives, that he had a working relationship with a professor who expressed pride in his past anti-American terrorism, or even that his wife admitted a first-time pride in the United States with the advent of her husband's electoral success.

Repeated references to Obama's close connections with these people and others are not drive-by attacks designed to incriminate Obama merely by association. Their purpose is to shine a spotlight on Obama to help determine whether he embraces or is sympathetic to the same negative views about America as his soul mates.

When you couple Obama's associations with his many statements and policies, a disturbing picture emerges, suggesting Obama might lack a robust pride in America -- at least in what he considers to be its present state. This point was driven home again this week, as Obama expressed "embarrassment" that American children can't speak foreign languages while European children can speak English.

This is hardly surprising. As others have noted, both as an Illinois senator and United States senator, Obama has been unwavering in his opposition to making English the official language. He doubtlessly has no clue why his attitude on this would deeply bother those of us in "flyover country," who comprise a large part of the American population that Obama holds himself out as having the unique ability to unite. How do you think most of center-right America would react if they understood Obama is more likely to get goose bumps over multiculturalism and diversity than the unique American culture and the values undergirding it?

Speaking of flyover country, who can forget Obama's completely unscripted expression of contempt for small-town America? In that spontaneous moment, he betrayed his typically liberal attitude that ordinary Americans are dependent on the superior wisdom of Washington politicians to save them from their backwoodsmanship.

Obama can deny his lifetime liberal voting record, he can lurch to the center in this general election campaign, and he can claim to be all about bipartisanship and unity, but he can't erase the "Bittergate" tape, which demonstrated his real idea of harmony: leading small-town Neanderthals, bound and gagged, into utopia.
And how about Obama's five-point plan to repair America's image in the world, including doubling our foreign aid to $50 billion and surrendering in Iraq to generate good will for America in the Middle East? Liberals such as Obama are preoccupied with America's image in the world -- always worried about which nations we've offended or how we've let down the United Nations, when they ought to be outraged at how those other nations have abused, scorned or underappreciated us and/or haven't stepped up to the plate to do the right thing.

Then again, this is the same Obama who said "the danger of using good versus evil in the context of war is it may lead us to be not as critical as we should be about our own actions."

Surely average Americans do not share Obama's ambivalence about America's moral standing in the war on terror. Surely they reject that there's a dangerous downside to Americans coming together in support of the war through a shared belief in the moral authority of our cause. Along these lines, is it any surprise that Obama, possessed of this moral conflict and confusion, thinks we are at fault for not trying hard enough to meet Iranian tyrant Mahmoud Ahmadinejad halfway?

And then there's Obama's statement in the New Orleans Superdome about a year ago: "After Katrina hit, we had to realize that we were no longer the America we had hoped to be. All the hurricane did was lay bare the fact that we had not dealt with the problems of racism and poverty. But here's the good news: America was ashamed and shocked."

I know many have bought into the disgraceful propaganda that problems with the governmental responses to Katrina were based on the race or poverty of the victims. Perhaps Obama, instead of wringing his hands over the illusory harm that could come to America by clearly articulating its moral standing in this war, should refrain from participating in the dissemination of such destructively divisive slander purely for political gain.

Obama's record and attitude are there for people to see. In all sincerity, I ask: How can we afford such an attitude in America's president -- especially during wartime?

Post Title: Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (Repo Man)
Posted by: rn79870 at 9:09 AM 7/11/2008

I know that there are many people here at Nico that are so conservative they make Limbaugh look like a Kennedy. But seriously, all of us need to look at the issues facing America and answer, one at a time, who will be better able to handle that issue, Obama or McCain? I think when you do, you'll vote for Mr. O.



Post Title: Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (rn79870)
Posted by: audtatious at 9:35 AM 7/11/2008

We intervened and what happened. Vietnam fell to the communist and communism collapsed (partially). My point is perhaps we shouldn't trust the people who profit from war in favor of trying a few years of peace.



Post Title: Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (rn79870)
Posted by: audtatious at 10:21 AM 7/11/2008

Not a snowball's chance in hell Bob.



Post Title: Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (rn79870)
Posted by: wingFeather at 10:48 AM 7/11/2008

Return to better days? Tell that to the Middle East. Tell them that we're not happy with what they're doing & to "stop it". I'm sure that will work



Post Title: Re: (skylndrftr)
Posted by: AZhitman at 12:42 PM 7/11/2008

In that case, I'll lay out our academia:

I'm a Policy Project away from my MA. She's 2 classes away from her Doctorate (in Education).

</nerdbattle>

There's no shortage of comprehension of the issue at hand here - The one part I think you nailed SPOT-ON is we're sorely lacking in mastery of English.

Regardless, my point was, we have nothing to be "ashamed" of.

Continuous improvement is great, self-loathing is for losers.

Side note: MY kids are learning Spanish. Not so they can "compete in the new economy", but so they can accurately describe how they want their landscaping to look.

Post Title:
Posted by: skylndrftr at 2:21 PM 7/11/2008

I'm working on my MS and its about evenly split between foreign students and US students. I know some international students who struggle with english and then everyone in between all the way to knowing some US students who are fully bilingual (and not just spanish). [/nerd couner attack]

Encouragin people to learn spanish because there are Spanish people coming here IS dumb. People coming to live in this country SHOULD learn english. But, I went on a trip to China for a conference and watched several people I would consider colleagues, and probably would have considered friends, bereatting hotel staff and resteraunt staff for poor English skills. Your in there country make the effort just like you expect of them.



Post Title: Re: (skylndrftr)
Posted by: AZhitman at 4:35 PM 7/11/2008

Very correct, sir.

And your colleagues need a good stiff backhand for their idiocy. No wonder we're thought of so poorly.

When I go overseas, the first thing I want to learn in the native tongue is how to say, "I'm so sorry, I only speak English - Can you please help me?"

That's just being a HUMBLE AND KIND HUMAN BEING, which I think even the lefties can appreciate.



Post Title: Re: (AZhitman)
Posted by: audtatious at 4:42 PM 7/11/2008

Post Title: Re: (AZhitman)
Posted by: skylndrftr at 6:20 PM 7/11/2008

And I'll bet a lot of the time you can find someone who does. Wouldn't it be nice if the same thing happened when they came here?

Quote, originally posted by AZhitman »

That's just being a HUMBLE AND KIND HUMAN BEING, which I think even the lefties can appreciate.

I would hope everybody appreciates this. thats not a left right issue (I'm sick of those terms), thats a good versus bad person issue.

Throwing money at education or forcing students tolearn another language aren't going to solve anything...however they are two things that will contribute to the solution. Just look at the problems we're having in the intelligence community recruiting people who speak languages such as Farsi or Arabic.

Post Title: Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (AZhitman)
Posted by: C-Kwik at 7:10 PM 7/11/2008

Quote, originally posted by AZhitman »

Side note: MY kids are learning Spanish. Not so they can "compete in the new economy", but so they can accurately describe how they want their landscaping to look.

I about fell outta my chair laughing at this.

I am fairly passionate about immigrants learning English. I can't and don't expect them to learn it fluently, but some basic essentials would be nice. In fact, a customer the other day (about 90% of our customers are Hispanic) asked if I speak Spanish. I told him no but we were able to carry out the transaction. At some point he randomly says Espanol, Por Favor, implying I should learn to speak it. I simply said he could learn English just the same.

I used to give my dad a hard time about it too. He can get by to some extent, but he could still do much better. My mom is much better at speaking English, though she still struggles quite a bit. Ironically, my Korean absollutely sucks. Its a wonder how we even communicate.



Post Title:
Posted by: skylndrftr at 9:21 PM 7/11/2008

Thank you.

It shouldn't. I'm not opposed to immigration (I think it needs reform). I don't dislike people of other ethnicities (I think we've seen that). I don't wish harm or mistreatment on those who only seek a better life for their families (that's how I got here).

I think we need to look at history and demand excellence. America is a proud, beautiful, free country. And if you want to be here, you're going to BE an American, and Americans are a people who strive for excellence.

Get on the WIN train or go home.



Post Title: Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (C-Kwik)
Posted by: AZhitman at 1:47 AM 7/12/2008

I listened to it on the radio (XM)... He didn't really, Chano. It was quite agitating to hear, as it just dripped with disdain.

I "get" what he was getting at, but like I said in my OP rant, it was his condescending tone that disgusted me, and my rant came straight after hearing it all...

The whole "we should be ashamed of ourselves" thing makes me want to VOMIT.

Wanna know what we should be ashamed of?

We should be ashamed that we don't stand up and say STFU when someone besmirches our country.

We should be ashamed that we don't say, "Hey, WTF?" when someone shoplifts in plain view.

We should be ashamed that our entertainers and athletes make more money than our teachers, police, EMTs and firemen.

We should be ashamed that we don't collectively come together and say, "This is a great country - It ain't perfect, but it's ours, and we're working on it, and we love it."

My original post stands. "Fair" ain't in my lexicon.



Post Title: Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (AZhitman)
Posted by: OriginalWheelman at 10:52 AM 7/12/2008

Two things you should NEVER do are say you're embarrassed to be American or embarrassed for something we don't do as well as someone else.

That my friends is simply the way it is. If you don't feel that way...then by all means GTFO of MY country as soon as you can. Even if I was a supporter of Obama I'd be upset and thoroughly ashamed of myself right now.

I considered voting for him for about 1.5 weeks...I will now go outside and beat my own a$$.

Thank you Nico for making me research and make a better informed opinion.

WD



Post Title: Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (WDRacing)
Posted by: rn79870 at 12:16 PM 7/12/2008

http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread/351333




Post Title: Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (rn79870)
Posted by: WDRacing at 12:25 PM 7/12/2008

Especially since he's embarressed about ME...since I only speak English. Way to go!!! BE embarressed cause I speak the chosen language of my OWN Country...

Post Title:
Posted by: skylndrftr at 3:36 PM 7/12/2008

So when the representative of the Democratic party says to the world He's embarrassed that our citizens don't speak a foreign language you're ok with that because he was honest?

Even though the OTHER citizens of OTHER countries are striving to speak English it's ok for a possible future leader of my great country to be ashamed of me because I don't know a different language. Yet he can call upon me to throw down my life in order to protect and preserve the American way of life.

I say to you NO SIR...that is NOT ok Not now and not EVER.

America stands for Freedom and Independence..one Nation UNDER GOD. To be embarrassed of that is to admit that you simply have lost touch with what America truly represents. That means you do NOT represent America...but rather something different...something UN American.

If change means giving up the very way of life that I have fought to preserve...that my brothers have paid the ultimate price for...I say to you Obama is a terrorist in the most basic of forms. To change our way of life if to forget what we fought so hard to become.

Give that up at your parel...for change comes at great expense to those who walk into the future with open arms and don't question the Devil when He brings gifts.



Post Title:
Posted by: skylndrftr at 5:34 PM 7/12/2008

I wouldn't go so far as to say not speaking another language is embarrassing but to say you should never be embarassed is just stupid, and thats what you said.



Post Title: Re: (skylndrftr)
Posted by: WDRacing at 6:49 PM 7/12/2008

I dunno what kind of lame excuse for living in my country you just tried to give...but GTFO.

Liberals can always interpret things to mean something else. Either you're embarrassed that Americans don't speak more then one language or you aren't...PERIOD. If you don't like English...GTFO.



Post Title:
Posted by: skylndrftr at 9:41 PM 7/12/2008

How bout instead I work to fix things. I'm a citizen just as much as you. If you or anyone else thinks this country is perfect then why bother voting? Things will work themselves out right?

I am actually embarassed for our country right now that someone would say that to another citizen.



Post Title: Re: (skylndrftr)
Posted by: audtatious at 11:07 PM 7/12/2008

Enablement sux no matter how you spin it. Why don't we go ahead and give Mexico the left-coast and be done with it? The amount of illegals who will be voting will eventually spit out enough kids where they will be the majority in a few years anyway.

Give it up



Post Title: Re: (WDRacing)
Posted by: skylndrftr at 11:09 PM 7/12/2008

This isn't "racism".

This is people being fed the HELL up with political correctness, with catering to special interests, with mollycoddling border-jumpers, with supposed "leaders" telling us WE should be ashamed of ourselves and our country - Our country that's so damn good that people will DIE to try to get here.

Screw him and his self-loathing. We're not victims and we don't need his brand of "salvation".




Post Title: Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (OriginalWheelman)
Posted by: AZhitman at 12:18 AM 7/13/2008

I do it at least 3x a week here. Usually it's because some service industry worker is too dumb to go run and get one of the other 50% of employees who IS bilingual to help. My spanish is JUST bad enough to screw up their order.

The school my GF teaches at? EIGHTY-FIVE PERCENT HISPANIC.

How is that? HOW?

Nothing against them, or their kids. BUT HOW does a US school become 85% Hispanic? HOW?



Post Title: Re: (skylndrftr)
Posted by: WDRacing at 4:33 AM 7/13/2008

Does your idea of fixing things entail forcing my Son to learn another language? How about NO...

My opinion isn't that America is perfect, but it is that we speak English here. You can call me racist all you want...so long as you do so in English.



Post Title: Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (AZhitman)
Posted by: rn79870 at 7:52 AM 7/13/2008

Assuming they are here legally, what to you propose Greg? Shall we require them to stay home and starve until they get a working knowledge of english? At least they are willing to work for a living, and that is far, far more respectable than what many inner-city American youth pursue for a career. Drug sales, gang banging and welfare fraud. Who do you really respect in this regard?

I get frustrated when I order something from a Hispanic person due to the language barrier, yet when I think about it, they speak English better than I speak Spanish. At least they are trying to learn their new language. Plus they are working at a job I wouldn't want to do.



Post Title: Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (rn79870)
Posted by: audtatious at 8:33 AM 7/13/2008

In my day to day's, I have yet run across a reason to know a 2nd language. If the reasoning behind learning Spanish is to make the hispanics feel more welcome here and allow them to more easily adapt then why should we not also have to learn other languages for the others who come over here as well? I know the answer of course, we have far more of an inflood of Mexican nationals than we do with other countries simply because we border them and it's far easier for them to get here. The one thing the quota system in the past helped was it limited such a huge influx of people from the same country as the percentages were spread out. That is no longer the case anymore and it's wrong and will bite us in the butt.

Post Title: Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (audtatious)
Posted by: smockers83 at 10:52 AM 7/13/2008

Dude...we all know things change. But our language is English...if you want to come to America to prosper then you need to do your best to learn it. We do not need to learn another language so that others may prosper.

I'm not even against learning another language, I'm against people who seem to think I NEED to speak something other then English.

English is the most spoken language in the world...success = speak it.

Come here legally and I'll support any program we can come up with to include FREE English lessons for those willing to learn. I'm all for helping my fellow man, but I'm NOT going to agree with changing the way my country works in order to accommodate foreign nationals.

The happy medium is not changing our language, but doing everything we can in order to make it easier for immigrants to learn English. I think that's more then fair...this would involve any type of education deemed necessary all paid for by the Gov. Lord knows we've wasted enough cash on other things...Mars

Even if we had to build seperate schools...this alone would increase jobs, education and generally provide a basis for a better quality of life. All of which could be improved on as we feel our way into the 22nd Century as a bigger better America...that speaks English.

Is that not acceptable?

Post Title: Re:
Posted by: audtatious at 1:59 PM 7/13/2008

Post Title: Re: (WDRacing)
Posted by: OriginalWheelman at 7:23 PM 7/13/2008

Quote, originally posted by WDRacing »

Lord knows we've wasted enough cash on other things...Mars

I beg to differ. Space travel is very important. A lot has come from space travel, and we really are going to need another planet soon.



Post Title: Re: (OriginalWheelman)
Posted by: WDRacing at 8:01 PM 7/13/2008

Anyway, materially, I think we're focusing on nothing. He said this for political reasons, albeit shxtty ones. All candidates say things so that they'll be viewed in a certain light, and that's what he did here. He just said, IMO, the WRONG thing. He needs to remember that while it IS popular for him to be seen as internationally popular, he still needs to run and win in AMERICA.

Anyway, I *do* wish he'd reverse his stance on NCLB, that is some "flip-flopping" I wouldn't mind. My mom is a teacher and she's described NCLB's failings in detail to me.

I DO think that more foreign language training in US schools would be a good thing, but ultimately, other than *possibly* Spanish, we don't NEED the extra language skills as much as the Europeans do because we don't have a zillion tiny countries sitting next to each other with lots of cross-travel.

Everyone in the DC offices of my company, a Dutch company, speaks like 5 languages except for me. They have to, in order to be able to get around Europe well.



Post Title: Re: (WDRacing)
Posted by: skylndrftr at 7:37 AM 7/15/2008

I wasn't commenting on people here not learning English. I was commenting on

Quote »

The English brought civilization to most of the world, as one of the first industrialized nations. Their language spread with their culture and their technology.

thats where the Latin came from, its not a history we want to repeat



Post Title: Re: (skylndrftr)
Posted by: OriginalWheelman at 8:08 AM 7/15/2008

Why not?

We're close to having the whole world speaking 1 language. We're supposed to be embarrassed because it's the one we speak? So what? If the whole world spoke 1 language things would be a lot simpler. What is with this "we should coddle the rest of the world" attitude? They are learning English for a reason, not cause they arbitrarily decided. They want to learn our language, great, lets spend money elsewhere instead of teaching our kids what may soon be dead languages. I took 4 years of language and the time I cited is the only time I've ever used it.



Post Title:
Posted by: AZhitman at 9:54 AM 7/15/2008

It is, like America, a "melting pot", substantially flawed, yet still preferred.



Post Title:
Posted by: skylndrftr at 11:06 PM 7/15/2008

I actually have to make a statement that abbreviations such as 'LOL' 'WTF' etc. are not appropriate in writing.

I had a recruiter comment to me that she meets lots of engineers who are ESL with better English skills than people who have been raised here.



Post Title:
Posted by: AZhitman at 11:50 PM 7/15/2008

And I'd argue that even MORE important is the ability to translate thought into clear, concise, written communications. The ability to write well definitely opens a lot of doors in the work force.



Post Title: Re: (AZhitman)
Posted by: MinisterofDOOM at 4:59 AM 7/16/2008

It takes a SPECIAL kind of arrogance to expect an entire nation to adapt to you rather than be willing to adapt yourself to the new environment that YOU CHOSE to live in. I don't care what race you are, or what langauge you speak, or what country you're going from or to. The state of mind is the same. And it's disgusting. It's a small snapshot of what is wrong with a huge portion of the population of the world today.



Post Title: Re: (AZhitman)
Posted by: rn79870 at 6:18 AM 7/16/2008

Any young person who understands that is well on their way to a successful life. THey have no idea how much it really counts for.



Post Title: Re: (rn79870)
Posted by: AZhitman at 11:24 PM 7/16/2008

Absolutely.

I was fortunate enough to graduate from a college that requires a fairly rigorous and comprehensive writing proficiency exam prior to graduation - not only for liberal arts majors but students in ALL disciplines.

Student athletes trembled in their cleats.



Post Title: Re: (AZhitman)
Posted by: Marenta at 8:31 PM 7/25/2008

The one thing I think all Americans should be absolutely disgustedly embarrassed about is how we all love to feed upon MSG and McDonalds. I want to personally blow up every single one of those damned Golden Arches in the world and every other fast food joint. We are so hugely obese it's like we deserve to have bigger cars just so we can drive our fat asses around in them. So, perhaps instead of focusing on the fact that we don't all know another language fluently, how about we actually ensure that our children don't end up being land whales?



Post Title: Re: (Marenta)
Posted by: rn79870 at 6:08 AM 7/26/2008

The main problem with kids today is responsible parenting.



Post Title: Re: (smockers83)
Posted by: Marenta at 12:24 PM 7/26/2008

And it's the truth, too. Funny thing is, it all started when Liberals decided it was "wrong" to spank your child. Don't get me wrong, I didn't say "beat", I said "spank". I actually connive my child, since that works better on him anyway, than spanking. But, once we all started to coddle our children, it suddenly became okay to let the TV babysit them when we became overworked. And, it's alright to not make them do chores, to not hold them accountable for their mistakes, and to not make them do something more erstwhile.

Hell, it's gotten so far as to say that we coddle other fcsking countries and terrorists. For fcsking sake, these guys blew up buildings with fcksing airplanes in the middle of New Fcksing York God Damned City. And you want us to interrogate them with decency? I mean, they'd send their 6 year old daughter or son with a bomb strapped to their chest and some flowers up to you to blow your arse up in a millisecond if they had the fcsking chance. Come the fcsk on people, how much more liberal do we have to be before we end up puking the Leftie dildo we've had stuck up our ***? I'm pretty tired of this. I'm pro-choice, pro-land, pro-freedom. But, I am pro-gun, pro-military, pro-business, pro-trade, pro-conservative, and pro-republican. (Yeah, I'm pretty republican, I'm in the military, sue me.)

I'm tired of all this crap. GW Jr. grew a pair, told the UN and the rest of the world to take it up the pooper and that we were going to carry our big stick, smack some flies down that were buzzing around and then cleared the air and walked away. But, we've been in there too long. It doesn't matter who gets elected this next go around, they're going to be an imbecile. Obama or McCain, this country is screwed. All I have to say is, you all better stock up on your assault rifles and Class III and IIII weapons and gear before it goes bye-bye. Both McCain and Obama have lost love for gun control, so, there goes that idea.

Tax ........................... 0.02



Post Title: Re: (Marenta)
Posted by: Jimefam at 7:32 PM 8/23/2008

As far as mexicans expecting americans to learn spanish, that is an absurd notion that is more based on someones misdirected sense of "patriotism" than actual fact. Hitman was wondering how a US school can become 85% hispanic. The answer is very simple its economics and comfort. Spanish immigrants tend to be in lower income brackets than whites because they come from poorer countries and have to establish roots here. Because they almost exclusively follow this trend the result is whole neighborhoods of hispanics similar to what we see with african americans in this country. Also they want to live near other hispanics because it allows them to feel less alienated and in peace.

I also take issue with people who say immigrants are here to "rape" this country economically and cost our economy billions with their use of welfare and medicaid. This is simply untrue as many economist and politicians have pointed out. NY city mayor Michael bloomberg a republican has pointed out that his city recieves an economic benefit in the millions after taking into account the cost of those social programs. White americans have always had a racist element to them from slavery to european immigrants being called dagos and other slurs and forced to take low paying jobs and live in slums which is exactly what we are seeing today with mexicans. No they are not here to take over your country there will be a period of friction caracterized by the resistance and docile racism we are experencing now. Ultimately they will integrate as every other wave of immigrants has.

I can fully understand your resentment and insecurity at seeing cars here with flags on them from different countries and having to press 1 for english but be honest. That is my biggest gripe with the so called immigration debate, it is not so much to secure our country as it is we want to see less "beaners and spics" here. I am a colombian living in what is a very white part of the US and deal with alot of racism day to day and believe me it is very widespread. I take no issue with it as I realize that most of it is ignorance and misinformation but it often amazes me to see it in the most unexpected of places.

Americans should not learn a second language we should instead focus on improving our math and science skills which are amongst the worst in the world. Also spend time to train our blue collar workers in more technical skills so that when their jobs get sent overseas as they should in a capitalist economy they will prosper. As far as spanking I will say this, I was spanked and spanked and the beaten and guess what? It was no big deal it did not dissuade me from doing anything that I chose. What finally worked was my father communicating to me as a man and reasoning with me. The best tool for raising a child is an interested and invested parent.

By the way I am not a liberal or conservative. I make up my own damn mind and dont follow party politics. I would consider myself a republican if not for the religious element which has infected that party. Would love to hear your thoughts.



Post Title:
Posted by: AZhitman at 11:01 AM 8/25/2008

I think I said my piece in the first post, and I stand by it today. I don'tWANT a "global president", and I sure as HELL don't want a president who limp-wrists his way through apologies for this country.

We may not do things right all the time. But the constant influx of people streaming across the borders for the past 200 years tells me we're doing a hell of a lot RIGHT.



Post Title: Re: (Jimefam)
Posted by: HashiriyaS14 at 7:28 AM 8/26/2008

Well, you're a "something". Everyone has an affiliation of some kind, depending on what their stances on the issues are. Take this quiz and let us know where you come out:

http://www.theadvocates.org/quizp/index.html

Quote, originally posted by Jimefam »

I would consider myself a republican if not for the religious element which has infected that party.

You and me both, pal.

Hell, I actually REGISTERED DEMOCRAT this year. If you'd told me in 1999 that I would be a registered Democrat in 2008, I would have laughed myself into a seizure. That's how much the GOP has changed, although obviously that change has been in the works since Falwell and the "Moral Majority" twisted the character of the Republican Party in the 1970s.



Post Title: Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (96Qowner)
Posted by: dwlf89 at 7:57 PM 8/26/2008

couldn't agree more!



Post Title: Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (dwlf89)
Posted by: szhosain at 10:47 PM 8/26/2008

No substance, no depth, nothing of consequence.

Z



Post Title: Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (szhosain)
Posted by: audtatious at 12:23 AM 8/27/2008

Your PERSONAL issues Score is 70%.
Your ECONOMIC issues Score is 70%.

According to your answers, the political group that agrees with you most is...

LIBERTARIANS support maximum liberty in both personal and

economic matters. They advocate a much smaller government; one

that is limited to protecting individuals from coercion and violence.

Libertarians tend to embrace individual responsibility, oppose

government bureaucracy and taxes, promote private charity, tolerate

diverse lifestyles, support the free market, and defend civil liberties.

This fits me to a t.




Post Title: Re: (Jimefam)
Posted by: szhosain at 12:14 AM 8/29/2008

I was Centrist ... 60% on both. Described me too.

Z

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