Ok... I just recently purchased a 75 Datsun 280Z and after thinking a crapload on what engine I want to put in it I've finally decided that I like the VH45DE the best out of my choices of which included:
VG30ET since I already have oneVG30DETTChevy 350 (easy since mounts are already made for it)
Reason I want the VH is because I want some mean power and even stock... that engine would push this Z hellishly well. I also wanted to keep a Nissan engine in there so this engine just seems to fit my wants the best.
Now to my questions. I will not touch an auto transmission with a 10 foot pole. I only like manuals. I noticed that the Q shares the same gearbox as the an auto Z32 300ZX. If that's true then I should be able to swap the TT 5-speed transmission onto this engine, correct? Has anyone done this before? If not, the bolt patterns are different bell housing wise but the gear boxes stay the same. If that's true then I should be able to swap the bell housing from the auto Q to the TT manual if nothing had drastically changed between the two.
Anyone know the answers?? Many thanks in advance!!
VH45DE questions
The swap has been done before as far as I know... but it involves a great deal of mods to the TT 5 speed. I'll let the experts key in on what has to be modified/swapped/etc.
IMO, I don't like the auto transmission either and would rather spend $3k somewhere other than on a Level10 rebuild. If it came to that I'd buy a 5 speed myself and have it modded to fit. The big problem for us Q guys is finding a place for the e-brake, modifying the transmission to fit (and in the right place) and making room for the clutch.
We've been discussing supercharging the VH45DE for the last little while. If you're looking for more power, I believe this is the way... running 7psi intercooled with a modified exhaust should run you at LEAST 500 crank horsepower if I'm not mistaken.
Keep us updated with the project and good luck.
Corey
IMO, I don't like the auto transmission either and would rather spend $3k somewhere other than on a Level10 rebuild. If it came to that I'd buy a 5 speed myself and have it modded to fit. The big problem for us Q guys is finding a place for the e-brake, modifying the transmission to fit (and in the right place) and making room for the clutch.
We've been discussing supercharging the VH45DE for the last little while. If you're looking for more power, I believe this is the way... running 7psi intercooled with a modified exhaust should run you at LEAST 500 crank horsepower if I'm not mistaken.
Keep us updated with the project and good luck.
Corey
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mtcookson
- Posts: 2204
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- Car: 1991 Nissan 300ZX
1992 Iinfiniti Q45
and much much more - Contact:
I'm more of a turbo guy myself. I'd probably do a custom SS manifold into a nice collector in the front of the engine with a big turbo. I don't want the turbo too big so that it can spool pretty soon but I can go with my regular T3 hybrid that I'm used to. Have to make up for the additional 1.5 liters and 2 extra cylinders. Damn... the more I think of it the more it gets my adrenaline pumping, lol.
However... I wouldn't mind having an s/c and pushing 500 chp either
(especially in a sub 2800 pound car)
edit once again. Anyone know what these engines weigh? Being all aluminum (if i'm not mistaken) they should be pretty light bit I've not been able to find an exact weight of one.
However... I wouldn't mind having an s/c and pushing 500 chp either
(especially in a sub 2800 pound car)edit once again. Anyone know what these engines weigh? Being all aluminum (if i'm not mistaken) they should be pretty light bit I've not been able to find an exact weight of one.
How can ya turn down a centrifugal supercharger! (Gah, I can't wait til the day we have one in our Qs)
Keep in mind a supercharger won't be as harsh on the engine as turbos, speaking heat wise. Though there may be a fellow joining NICO soon whom turbo'd a VH45DE. There's more than a few choices for the VH, as long as you have the cash to back it up. Cheapest method of boost I'd think you're looking at is around $4.5k total, you install.
The VH45DE weighs about 220Kgs or just under 600lbs. Though I remember reading previously they were closer to 550lbs...
Corey
Keep in mind a supercharger won't be as harsh on the engine as turbos, speaking heat wise. Though there may be a fellow joining NICO soon whom turbo'd a VH45DE. There's more than a few choices for the VH, as long as you have the cash to back it up. Cheapest method of boost I'd think you're looking at is around $4.5k total, you install.
The VH45DE weighs about 220Kgs or just under 600lbs. Though I remember reading previously they were closer to 550lbs...
Corey
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mtcookson
- Posts: 2204
- Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2002 12:43 pm
- Car: 1991 Nissan 300ZX
1992 Iinfiniti Q45
and much much more - Contact:
Actually, I don't think the s/c runs much cooler than the turbo. There is minimal heat transfer between the turbine housing to the compressor housing, especially if you have a coolant line hooked up to your center section (when applicable).
There would be a heat difference but the only difference is that the turbo gives full boost sooner meaning, higher compression air for longer and since compressing air makes it hot, there is a longer period of time that hot air is going to the engine.
Since the centrifugal s/c builds boost with rpm's and doesn't quite reach full boost till redline. This means that there will be less compressed air throughout the rpm range compared to the turbo's near entire rpm range. That would be the only reason the s/c would run cooler than the turbo. If they were both pushing 12 psi the heat output should be nearly the same.
From there, it all comes down to your intercooler (cough aftercooler cough) setup. For the best cooling you could go with an air to water setup, but for street applications its not very practical. If you get a pretty efficient air to air setup you can gain quite a bit of power but moreso gain the ability to crank the boost up.
Hmm... I don't quite have 4500 for a turbo setup... so I'll try to make it cheaper. Usually takes a while to sort out the parts for the cheaper route but, I've done it once on my Maxima so I can probably do it again. For the Maxima, when I was told it would cost 2500-3000 dollars for a turbo setup I did mine for 1500-2000. It could have been less but there was a lot of screw ups a long the way and many things purchased that should have never been. This time around I know a bit better about what I'm doing so I should be able to keep costs low.
There would be a heat difference but the only difference is that the turbo gives full boost sooner meaning, higher compression air for longer and since compressing air makes it hot, there is a longer period of time that hot air is going to the engine.
Since the centrifugal s/c builds boost with rpm's and doesn't quite reach full boost till redline. This means that there will be less compressed air throughout the rpm range compared to the turbo's near entire rpm range. That would be the only reason the s/c would run cooler than the turbo. If they were both pushing 12 psi the heat output should be nearly the same.
From there, it all comes down to your intercooler (cough aftercooler cough) setup. For the best cooling you could go with an air to water setup, but for street applications its not very practical. If you get a pretty efficient air to air setup you can gain quite a bit of power but moreso gain the ability to crank the boost up.
Hmm... I don't quite have 4500 for a turbo setup... so I'll try to make it cheaper. Usually takes a while to sort out the parts for the cheaper route but, I've done it once on my Maxima so I can probably do it again. For the Maxima, when I was told it would cost 2500-3000 dollars for a turbo setup I did mine for 1500-2000. It could have been less but there was a lot of screw ups a long the way and many things purchased that should have never been. This time around I know a bit better about what I'm doing so I should be able to keep costs low.
How are the internals?
"The Infiniti motors are incredible - the standard bottom end looks like it has been race preped! The crank is held in place by a side bolted massive cradle with additional 4 bolt mains. If you want big hp, this motor is a good place to start!!"
From someone with a Nissan patrol with a twin turbo VH45DE
http://home.iprimus.com.au/pro...l.htm
"The Infiniti motors are incredible - the standard bottom end looks like it has been race preped! The crank is held in place by a side bolted massive cradle with additional 4 bolt mains. If you want big hp, this motor is a good place to start!!"
From someone with a Nissan patrol with a twin turbo VH45DE
http://home.iprimus.com.au/pro...l.htm
I know there are some 9.0:1 pistons out there that fit the VH45DE... unsure what else though. That is, without going custom.Just my .02: I built a 74 260Z with a 350V8, and was very happy with the conversion. There is one big downside that will be more important with the Q engine: weight. I used the JTR manual for the conversion, and it set the motor back right at the firewall, and it still added about 100lbs to the front end. The Q engine is a good 50/75 lbs heavier than an iron block+ alum head 350. No power steering on the Z, my wife could not drive it in a parking lot.
It sounds like you have a pretty generous budget, so you might want to look at an LS1, they sell a carb version of it now, so wiring would be much easier than the Q engine. That is a 457lb engine ready to run, mabey 20-30lbs less with a carb instead of fuel inj. HP with cam and headers should be approaching 500, as you can get away with a pretty radical cam with a 2800lb Z car and a manual trans.
It sounds like you have a pretty generous budget, so you might want to look at an LS1, they sell a carb version of it now, so wiring would be much easier than the Q engine. That is a 457lb engine ready to run, mabey 20-30lbs less with a carb instead of fuel inj. HP with cam and headers should be approaching 500, as you can get away with a pretty radical cam with a 2800lb Z car and a manual trans.
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mtcookson
- Posts: 2204
- Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2002 12:43 pm
- Car: 1991 Nissan 300ZX
1992 Iinfiniti Q45
and much much more - Contact:
I was thinking about a 350 chevy but I want to stay all Nissan when at all possible.
I think if lighten up the front a little bit the weights should even out some. I can take the bumpers off, maybe get fiberglass fenders and a cardon fiber hood. With those it will probably still be a bit front heavy but not as bad as having all stock items on there.
I think if lighten up the front a little bit the weights should even out some. I can take the bumpers off, maybe get fiberglass fenders and a cardon fiber hood. With those it will probably still be a bit front heavy but not as bad as having all stock items on there.
Yes, I do believe they were forged. Contact Paul Zigouras for more information. If you can, ask to get their specs... I'm unsure if he'd sell them straight out (as he uses them for engine rebuilds).
=====Zigouras Speed & Marine, Inc.110 Market StreetBrockton, MA 02301US1-866-773-7654AOL - pzigouras[email protected]=====
Corey
=====Zigouras Speed & Marine, Inc.110 Market StreetBrockton, MA 02301US1-866-773-7654AOL - pzigouras[email protected]=====
Corey
i wanted to do an RB into a J30, but the availability of parts for that motor in the us kinda turned me off. its nice to know the parts you need are at the dealership 15 mins away.
anyway, ive compiled a parts list for a stable high horse VH.
since the pistons arent forged or oil cooled, i would like a set of ross pistons in a high silicon alloy as to limit thermal expansion and cold wear. since there are no oil squirters, a swain gold coat ceramic would be best on the heads and piston tops, and a moly coatin on the piston skirts and bearing shells. the main bearings are only .78 inches wide and need protection.
*ross pistons [8.5-9:1]*pauter 4340 rods*custom copper head gaskets*swain tech coatings [loved them in my DSM] on combustion chambers, pistons, and bearings*550 cc inj.*aeromotive 700hp fuel pump, FPR, custom fuel rail, swirl tank.*mild head work, sheet metal intake.*external oil filter, oil cooler, and 3 quart accumulator with solenoid*log exhaust manifolds with dual garrett gt25 turbos [.64 ex A/R]*split downpipes, dual 3" exhaust, high flow cats*custom FMIC with dual opposed bottom inlets and a single top outlet feeding a 3" GM blow thru maf, and translator.
theres more, but thats the basic rundown.
and as far as the transmission goes, i would have a 1" adapter plate machined, and i would mount a Z32TT flywheel to the vh with a spacer disc with integral pilot bushing.
this motor is a long ways away due to the cute little $14,000 pricetag all the parts come with. ive already contacted pauter and ross for prices. ARP hasnt gotten back to me about fasteners.
i work on cars, and i have very good connections with machinists, so that price is based on parts only, not the labor required to replicate it.
i abandoned the RB26 idea because the price got to this level, i would rather spend that money on a 4.5l dohc v8 rather than a 2.6l six. [well, that and my project J30 got stolen, so if i go with this, im gonna build the motor over time, then get another j. i dont know how well the factory parts hold up, so i cant say if this extreme overkill for a street motor that would occasionally see 10 psi. with a built block that would obviously be higher.]
thats why i dont like opening motors. once you start, theres no end. everything goes hand in hand, and you wind up with a pricetag like that.
but its not that bad considering that includes everything related to the engine [supporting mods/durability mods] and for its operation.
anyway, ive compiled a parts list for a stable high horse VH.
since the pistons arent forged or oil cooled, i would like a set of ross pistons in a high silicon alloy as to limit thermal expansion and cold wear. since there are no oil squirters, a swain gold coat ceramic would be best on the heads and piston tops, and a moly coatin on the piston skirts and bearing shells. the main bearings are only .78 inches wide and need protection.
*ross pistons [8.5-9:1]*pauter 4340 rods*custom copper head gaskets*swain tech coatings [loved them in my DSM] on combustion chambers, pistons, and bearings*550 cc inj.*aeromotive 700hp fuel pump, FPR, custom fuel rail, swirl tank.*mild head work, sheet metal intake.*external oil filter, oil cooler, and 3 quart accumulator with solenoid*log exhaust manifolds with dual garrett gt25 turbos [.64 ex A/R]*split downpipes, dual 3" exhaust, high flow cats*custom FMIC with dual opposed bottom inlets and a single top outlet feeding a 3" GM blow thru maf, and translator.
theres more, but thats the basic rundown.
and as far as the transmission goes, i would have a 1" adapter plate machined, and i would mount a Z32TT flywheel to the vh with a spacer disc with integral pilot bushing.
this motor is a long ways away due to the cute little $14,000 pricetag all the parts come with. ive already contacted pauter and ross for prices. ARP hasnt gotten back to me about fasteners.
i work on cars, and i have very good connections with machinists, so that price is based on parts only, not the labor required to replicate it.
i abandoned the RB26 idea because the price got to this level, i would rather spend that money on a 4.5l dohc v8 rather than a 2.6l six. [well, that and my project J30 got stolen, so if i go with this, im gonna build the motor over time, then get another j. i dont know how well the factory parts hold up, so i cant say if this extreme overkill for a street motor that would occasionally see 10 psi. with a built block that would obviously be higher.]
thats why i dont like opening motors. once you start, theres no end. everything goes hand in hand, and you wind up with a pricetag like that.
but its not that bad considering that includes everything related to the engine [supporting mods/durability mods] and for its operation.
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mtcookson
- Posts: 2204
- Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2002 12:43 pm
- Car: 1991 Nissan 300ZX
1992 Iinfiniti Q45
and much much more - Contact:
If the bell housing is different then I would think the Q bell housing would be able to bolt to the TT gear box as long as the holes and such didn't change the bell housing between the auto and manual. anyone have any pictures of a Q transmission? (perferably to where the bell housing mates the gear box)
i have the service manual for the Q45 and J30, and from eye it looks off. not too far off, but enough.
whie looking at the service manuals, the J30 came with a VH41DE in other countries, and i dont know how much bigger the VH45 is than the VH41. it would suck if the 45 wont fit easily.
it would have been nice if someone knew what the reasonable power handling of the stock rods and pistons. thats one parts list that i would like to shrink a little. but what good is something if it just blows up? makes sense to take the time to build it right.
whie looking at the service manuals, the J30 came with a VH41DE in other countries, and i dont know how much bigger the VH45 is than the VH41. it would suck if the 45 wont fit easily.
it would have been nice if someone knew what the reasonable power handling of the stock rods and pistons. thats one parts list that i would like to shrink a little. but what good is something if it just blows up? makes sense to take the time to build it right.
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mtcookson
- Posts: 2204
- Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2002 12:43 pm
- Car: 1991 Nissan 300ZX
1992 Iinfiniti Q45
and much much more - Contact:
Yup, saw that beauty a few days ago. If I remember correctly they're estimating 720 hp and are hoping to hit 9 seconds flat in the 1/4!! 
:ylsuper
If you don't want to deal with Supercars.net's pop up bs you can check out the info and pictures here: http://www.zparts.com/showcase....html
:ylsuperIf you don't want to deal with Supercars.net's pop up bs you can check out the info and pictures here: http://www.zparts.com/showcase....html
thats a good thread. if they have room to fit the motor in the S chassis with the exhaust clearing the shock towers, i shouldnt have trouble fitting the motor in the J.
ive been having dreams about building the motor, and then needing to pull the motor if i wanted to change spark plugs or remove a valve cover.
i would definately take the time to make a new intake manifold. that stocker looks like hell to deal with. plus, with the design im working on, you could tune the runner length. i would post a pic of what im thinking, but i cant draw for ****.
nice find on the manual conversion!!!!!now i dont have to worry about making a mistake cutting the adapter plate and fubar'ing the input bearing on the Z32 transmission.
i already ran the numbers on the Z32 transmission, and my goal wheels and diff. the numbers came out beautiful.
now if we only knew the limits of the stock internals. i dont wanna be the ******* that drops 6 g's on internals when the stockers could handle it.
ive been having dreams about building the motor, and then needing to pull the motor if i wanted to change spark plugs or remove a valve cover.
i would definately take the time to make a new intake manifold. that stocker looks like hell to deal with. plus, with the design im working on, you could tune the runner length. i would post a pic of what im thinking, but i cant draw for ****.
nice find on the manual conversion!!!!!now i dont have to worry about making a mistake cutting the adapter plate and fubar'ing the input bearing on the Z32 transmission.
i already ran the numbers on the Z32 transmission, and my goal wheels and diff. the numbers came out beautiful.
now if we only knew the limits of the stock internals. i dont wanna be the ******* that drops 6 g's on internals when the stockers could handle it.
i would do the intercooler setup and intake much differently.
if i was to have two intake manifolds, i would want to feed the charge from one turbo into the opposite bank to keep in balance.
optimally, i would like a single throttle body on a common intake, with a single output, dual input intercooler. that way i could run a blow thru maf and bov's prior to the intercooler to keep the computer happy and avoid shift bogging.
if i was to have two intake manifolds, i would want to feed the charge from one turbo into the opposite bank to keep in balance.
optimally, i would like a single throttle body on a common intake, with a single output, dual input intercooler. that way i could run a blow thru maf and bov's prior to the intercooler to keep the computer happy and avoid shift bogging.
AZhitman wrote:Transmission internals?
You don't want to go much beyond 350 RWHP on the stock transmission. Dennis has expounded on this at length.
The S/C Q with 6lbs of boost was RIGHT at the limits of transmission usefulness, and ultimately broke the trans within 5000 miles.
come on now, the auto trans would be up for sale before i got the heads off the VH.
the auto is specifically what made me pass over the VH in the first place.