vh oil block for filter relocation!

[newbissan-tech]

ok guys the prototype is almost done! i am going to produce a few of these once perfected! the block will resemble something close to the stance or circuit sports sr20 oil blocks but for the vh! just wanting to get some input as far as what vh guys would be interested in having! it will have two -10 fittings with oring seals, and one or two 1/8" npt ports! if any one is interested in one of these blocks let me know here, i guess kind of a waiting list so i know how many to produce! and no one has to fully commit to one yet but it should be done next week, just waiting on a special order tap! as soon as i get it done i will post pics!

[tmorgan4]

Nice! Any idea how much you are selling them for?

[newbissan-tech]

not sure yet but the stance is $180 and the circuit sports is $110 so somewhere in that range! would like to get pics up and finalize it before i determine the price! me an my brother have alot of time in engineering it but ultimately he is the machinist and will have the final say in price im just the salesman, idea maker and the r&d guinea pig! will definitely have an answer very soon though!

[Steve Lloyd]

definitely interested, and if you could get 2 sensor ports into it that would be awesome.

Price is going to be the final determinant though.............

And this is what you are designing, correct??

[Mettler]

Pretty confident that -10 fittings are too small and you're going to suffer oil pressure loss.

[newbissan-tech]

-10 is what everyone else is using and my greddy oil filter relocation block uses also, but i'll definitely look into that! and yes steve that's what we're after! thanks for the input guys !
Modified by newbissan-tech at 11:07 PM 7/18/2009

[Chrispy300]

-10 is huge, I'm only using -8 on mine. Check out the size of the openings in the back of the oil pump they aren't big at all.

[gs14racer]

-10 is smaller than whats in the oil port as it is iirc, id be all about -12. just bore mine out and ill weld the bungs on to it.

[Carl H]

remember kids pressure != flow.larger id pipe will flow more oil but at less pressure, converse holds true.

[darinz]

I set mine up with -8 and that meant pressure would not go over 30psi! So from my direct experience with a relocated filter, I agree with mettler and say -12 is a go.

[newbissan-tech]

ok so i'm kind of torn at this point! the holes in the factory oil filter tree are a 5/8" id hole, but when i wikipedia a/n fittings their chart show's a -10 fitting to match up to a 5/8' tube od or hose id! so i'm confused. 5/8" is .625" in decimal form, and i'll have to measure the id of a -10 fitting, which i did earlier and forgot already! but i am going to be adding roughly 8 ft of plumbing to my oiling system when it's all said and done with! so my question now is will the stock pump beable to keep up with all of that extra plumbing or is going with a -10 fitting and lines going to up the pressure by restriction and balance out the effect of my pump having to work overtime with all of the extra plumbing????????

[newbissan-tech]

ok so just looked at another member's build (450Z) and he used a -12 an fitting! but my greddy oil filter block only has -10 an fittings so what do i do now? guess i could build an oil filter relocation block as well with -12 an fitings! lmk know what you guys are thinking and well go with it! thanks for all of the input to date!

[newbissan-tech]

ok next question does anyone have a -12 an fitting and could they measure the i.d. and post it up please???

[gs14racer]

i just put a -10 and -12 bung on the caliper

-10 = .509-12 = .605

Edit, if it makes any difference, i long suspected the -10 oil filter location kit i had in my first swap to be the cause of my motor problems which is why on this swap i left it stock.

[newbissan-tech]

jerry you are the man! thank you sir!

[Mettler]

remember kids pressure != flow.larger id pipe will flow more oil but at less pressure, converse holds true.

The holes going in and out of the filter housing are 16mm diameter. If you reduce the diameter at this point, you're creating a bottleneck before the oil is even pushed through to the main oil gallery.

I get what you're saying about pressure vs flow, but riddle me this... if the bottleneck is reducing flow, then even if you are able to get it up to the same pressure, wouldn't the reduced flow prevent it maintaining peak pressure under high load?

I'm by no means a hydraulics expert... but I imagine keeping the same internal diameters throughout the system is a step in the right direction for avoiding oiling problems.

My problem with -12 fittings is that oil coolers that have -12 inlet & outlets are massive and bloody expensive. Of course, these are usually outright race application stuff for V8 touring cars and the like. You guys in the states probably have cheaper access to gear like that... here in NZ I'd be looking at around a thousand bucks JUST for the cooler!!

My easy solution was to split the lines and run two -10 coolers in parallel, but that's just complicating matters and adding additional stuff to potentially go wrong, etc.

Either way, keen to see the outcome on this Make one for the VH41DE too

[newbissan-tech]

mettler! summitracing.com earls temp-a-cure oil coolers! mine has -12 fittings and was only $135.00 us dollars look into them! thanks for the input!

[SuperHatch]

Riddle me this everyone...

Pressure gauge in main oil galley reads same oil pressure before/after oil filter relocation/cooler install.

Also, pump has built in flow reduction valve to reduce oil flow once engine oil pressure reaches designed target.

What exactly is the oil filter relocation doing again?

The only effect the relocation and cooler have on oiling is the delay on cold start for oil to reach the bearings. If you have a proper filter with an anti-drainback valve or a check valve installed in the feed line than this risk is mitigated.

Also, consider all those top VH engine builders in NZ that reduce pump speed to drop flowrates. I specifically remember some members wanting access to these pump chain setups to reduce oil flowrates and prevent sump drainage, yet now the difference in flow capability between a -10AN and -12AN line is too much? The side galley in the block is about the same size or smaller than a -10 line.

[newbissan-tech]

so on a personal note -10 or -12????

[SuperHatch]

so on a personal note -10 or -12????

-10, 4000 miles on it, no problems.

FWIW, that is not why I made the above post. If my engine ever experiences a bearing failure, I'd sooner attribute it to the 140k miles on it and my abuse than anything else.

Also, I know that the lines for the relocation add fluid capacity, so I fill the engine to the full line and then add 1/2qt. for safety's sake. I don't want to add too much and risk aeration of the oil, but the systems operational capacity has increased, so the static capacity should increase accordingly. If you ever check your oil while the engine is running, you'd be startled to see how low the level can get.

[gs14racer]

your probably right, -10 wouldnt be a problem. My post simply implied that since its being made from scratch, given the option, i would rather maintain the same diameter as whats there, than to step down to a smaller size while adding roughly 7 ft of extra "galley ways" as they would be thru an oil cooler / relocation kit.

Newb, i guess you could always just thread the adapter for 3/4 npt and then people could purchase what ever fittings to suit them. ie 3/4 npt adpter to -10 or -12 respectivly.

[newbissan-tech]

true that i'll probably just go with a 3/4 npt fitting and let everyone else decide from there! got the first prototype done! here's some pic's need's some things tweaked to get it perfect but this one will work great for me. The a/n fittings are o-ring sealed to the block but i have a feeling that npt might be better if we decide to make it user friendly! lmk guys thanks!

[gs14racer]

ill take two......

but no for real ill take one

[newbissan-tech]

ok ill come up with o-rings and hardware, finish up the loose ends! do you want the oring seal a/n fittings or would you like npt a/n fittings? the o-ring seal will probably give you more room! just lmk and i'll get on it!

[tmorgan4]

Put me down for one as well! Assuming the price is reasonable. Machine work looks real nice. Do these use factory Nissan O-rings? I remember looking around for something locally for a long time before breaking down and ordering new OEM O-rings.

[SuperHatch]

your probably right, -10 wouldnt be a problem. My post simply implied that since its being made from scratch, given the option, i would rather maintain the same diameter as whats there, than to step down to a smaller size while adding roughly 7 ft of extra "galley ways" as they would be thru an oil cooler / relocation kit.

Newb, i guess you could always just thread the adapter for 3/4 npt and then people could purchase what ever fittings to suit them. ie 3/4 npt adpter to -10 or -12 respectivly.

My post wasn't directed at you Jerry, or singling anyone else out either, just my reasons why I don't think that the relocation would be a restriction and my reasons for confusion, since some people thought it would be a good idea to reduce oil flow, but then also think it wasn't a good idea.

I agree giving people the option is a great idea, but I certainly wouldn't be scared of running -10 either.

[SuperHatch]

newb,

Great machine work, looks like a quality piece so far. Puts other fabrication on this forum to shame.

These -12 fittings are going to make it difficult to get those bolts in, aren't they? Non trying to nit-pick, just pointing a design issue out.

[Wes M]

Also, consider all those top VH engine builders in NZ that reduce pump speed to drop flowrates. I specifically remember some members wanting access to these pump chain setups to reduce oil flowrates and prevent sump drainage, yet now the difference in flow capability between a -10AN and -12AN line is too much? The side galley in the block is about the same size or smaller than a -10 line.

I have to say I'm with Superhatch on this one. Remember any restriction in oil flow would be the most significant at higher rpm which is also when oil starvation issues appear (due to emptying of the sump).

I think the ideal would be a restriction on oil flow to the heads rather than the entire oiling system tho.

[gs14racer]

My post wasn't directed at you Jerry, or singling anyone else out either, just my reasons why I don't think that the relocation would be a restriction and my reasons for confusion, since some people thought it would be a good idea to reduce oil flow, but then also think it wasn't a good idea.

I agree giving people the option is a great idea, but I certainly wouldn't be scared of running -10 either.

i know you werent singling people out , i just re-read what i posted and felt the need to clarify it.

What ever is built utimatly -10 or -12 lol, i need one, and further more i appreciate the work put into it. Tell me where to order
Modified by gs14racer at 4:43 AM 7/22/2009

[Steve Lloyd]

what about sensor ports??