Neil

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581 posts
shooting laser guns
Newtown, CT
4-21-2004
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| « Re: It was f-ing running! WTF?!? (TheKryptKeeper) | 5:33 AM 5/13/2008 |
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you got new head studs and torqued them in the right order to the right Ft/lb, as dictated by the shop manual? .. you did get a new head gasket, right? I remember someone tried to re-use a Cometic and they were baffled why it wouldnt run.
Modified by Neil at 2:36 PM 5/13/2008
 '97 S14 - beauty '92 S13 - beast
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TheKryptKeeper
Offline
212 posts
Albuquerque NM
1-30-2007
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| « Re: It was f-ing running! WTF?!? (Neil) | 1:19 PM 5/13/2008 |
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Yes, I did. This time I followed the manual step by step. It ran! No weird noises, no screeching of valves bending.
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TheKryptKeeper
Offline
212 posts
Albuquerque NM
1-30-2007
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| « Re: It was f-ing running! WTF?!? (TheKryptKeeper) | 1:40 PM 5/13/2008 |
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Alright, so I might have no actually tightened down the camshaft gears. I'm going to go check that today.
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motoman399

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426 posts
1998 240sxse KA24DE
eureka ca
10-10-2006
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| « Re: It was f-ing running! WTF?!? (TheKryptKeeper) | 1:48 PM 5/13/2008 |
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seriously you might just have messed up your motor. you better hope you tightened them
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TheKryptKeeper
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212 posts
Albuquerque NM
1-30-2007
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| « Re: It was f-ing running! WTF?!? (TheKryptKeeper) | 2:50 PM 5/13/2008 |
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Alright, so there is water in the oil. It is all milky. What could have I done? Blown the head gasket, again? It didn't even run long enough to get the exhaust hot. Anybody?
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Cone Junky

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180 posts
89 240 SX
San Diego CA
1-20-2008
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| « Re: It was f-ing running! WTF?!? (TheKryptKeeper) | 5:11 PM 5/13/2008 |
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Did you pressure check the head or at least have the head milled?You might have jumped the gun in the assumption it was just a gasket problem..
San Diego Region Solo # 410DTM & JDM Still plays with cars...
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TheKryptKeeper
Offline
212 posts
Albuquerque NM
1-30-2007
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| « Re: It was f-ing running! WTF?!? (Cone Junky) | 5:43 PM 5/13/2008 |
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Oh yea, I blew the head. You should have seen the gasket. And yes, I bought a good used head and pressure checked it and had it milled. It works now, but I'm having a lot of trouble timing it. I can get it to rev, but it idles like ****. What am I doing wrong?
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urcaptnspeaking

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603 posts
1990 240sx
Washington WV
12-9-2007
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| « Re: It was f-ing running! WTF?!? (TheKryptKeeper) | 6:15 PM 5/13/2008 |
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could just be jumping time.. check out the timing chain. see if there is any slack
Project Milk Money http://www.myspace.com/loganakazeus Build Thread: http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=327738 DIY Hatch Repair: http://forums.nicoclub.com/zer...id=44
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DjPantsSpecR
All Balls, No Boost

Offline
1652 posts
93 MS13 92 RMS13
BP MN
1-14-2005
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a few things.... the milky oil could be as a result of not changing the oil after you pulled the head off. once you pull the head off, all kinds of coolant runs in the cylinders and into the oil pan. this can easily and instantly spin a bearing or cause all kinds of damage.have you put a timing light on the car? did you check the spark plug order? i forgot in the other thread, but if you get the cam timing off by half a tooth when you try and put the distributor to 20 degrees btdc you wont be able to get it there.... you can get it close, but it will be no cigar. but if its cranking around that easily now, chances are you bent valves, so check clearances ASAP
http://www.mnnissan.net Its like NICO, except for one state: Minnesota
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TheKryptKeeper
Offline
212 posts
Albuquerque NM
1-30-2007
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| « Re: (DjPantsSpecR) | 7:30 PM 5/13/2008 |
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That half a tooth thing sounds right. I can't get my distributer to time just right. It is either between 5 ATDC to 10 BTDC or 30 BTDC to 50 or so BTDC. What do I do to fix it? I really don't think that I bent valves. I'm getting 160 PSI on all cylinders.
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urcaptnspeaking

Offline
603 posts
1990 240sx
Washington WV
12-9-2007
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| « Re: (TheKryptKeeper) | 7:45 PM 5/13/2008 |
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i had this problem... its a pain to fix. but mine eventually just blew up.. really fixed that problem.
Project Milk Money http://www.myspace.com/loganakazeus Build Thread: http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=327738 DIY Hatch Repair: http://forums.nicoclub.com/zer...id=44
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TheKryptKeeper
Offline
212 posts
Albuquerque NM
1-30-2007
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| « Re: (urcaptnspeaking) | 7:54 PM 5/13/2008 |
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Yea, I'm hoping to let this last until my sponsorship kicks in and I get the skyline motor. You say you had this problem, how do you fix it? Also my heater core is leaking into my cabin. FTL.
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urcaptnspeaking

Offline
603 posts
1990 240sx
Washington WV
12-9-2007
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| « Re: (TheKryptKeeper) | 8:02 PM 5/13/2008 |
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Sounds like you have a few problems. Well heatercore.. need to plug that off or you will be losing all kinds of coolent. Also, yeah i had this problem.. as I was in the process of fixing it , it threw a rod. so I never got down to it. You may have to consider a total rebuild... or another motor. May be that time bro.
Project Milk Money http://www.myspace.com/loganakazeus Build Thread: http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=327738 DIY Hatch Repair: http://forums.nicoclub.com/zer...id=44
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DjPantsSpecR
All Balls, No Boost

Offline
1652 posts
93 MS13 92 RMS13
BP MN
1-14-2005
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oh okay, you should be getting higher than 160 if you're half a tooth off. but it sounds like.like i explained to you in the other thread, to fix this you have to rotate the idler sprocket either forward or backward one tooth or the big part of the gear, not the small part.
http://www.mnnissan.net Its like NICO, except for one state: Minnesota
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TheKryptKeeper
Offline
212 posts
Albuquerque NM
1-30-2007
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| « Re: (DjPantsSpecR) | 9:01 PM 5/13/2008 |
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I should be higher than 160 if I'm half a tooth off? Why?Alright, I could be a half a tooth off, and to fix it I would just take out the upper front cover and move it forward or backward respectively?
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DjPantsSpecR
All Balls, No Boost

Offline
1652 posts
93 MS13 92 RMS13
BP MN
1-14-2005
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you have to completely remove the idler sprocket to move it forward or backward one tooth. it doesnt matter if you move it forward or backward as long as you time the cams accordingly afterward.it should be higher than 160, because i've run into this problem myself twice now, and its always been higher than 175. your motor might be on its way out, but check again once you get the cams in time
http://www.mnnissan.net Its like NICO, except for one state: Minnesota
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TheKryptKeeper
Offline
212 posts
Albuquerque NM
1-30-2007
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| « Re: (DjPantsSpecR) | 11:32 PM 5/13/2008 |
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Alright, so just move the idler sprocket one way or the other and reset the valves accordingly? That won't be too hard. But I just want to make sure that it's what I need to do.
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TheKryptKeeper
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212 posts
Albuquerque NM
1-30-2007
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| « Re: (TheKryptKeeper) | 1:00 PM 5/14/2008 |
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Damn, I think my heater core busted too. There is water on my carpet now.
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TheKryptKeeper
Offline
212 posts
Albuquerque NM
1-30-2007
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| « Re: (TheKryptKeeper) | 3:37 PM 5/14/2008 |
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Alright, I did it and lined the cams back up, but when I went to turn in over, it barely started and just sort up putted at 500 rpm, then died. Non responsive to throttle or anything. It hasn't started again, but my battery is dead too.
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TheKryptKeeper
Offline
212 posts
Albuquerque NM
1-30-2007
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| « Re: It was f-ing running! WTF?!? (TheKryptKeeper) | 3:45 PM 5/14/2008 |
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Compression is still at 160.
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DjPantsSpecR
All Balls, No Boost

Offline
1652 posts
93 MS13 92 RMS13
BP MN
1-14-2005
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make sure, you're not flooding when it wont restart like that, its very common to flood. pull the fuel pump fuse out adn crank it til it runs. then let it die, replace it, and then crank it up then see what you can get the ignition timing to. it should be 20btdc with the bolt in the center of the slot. and report back
http://www.mnnissan.net Its like NICO, except for one state: Minnesota
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TheKryptKeeper
Offline
212 posts
Albuquerque NM
1-30-2007
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| « Re: (DjPantsSpecR) | 4:57 PM 5/14/2008 |
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Alright, I took out the fuel pump fuse and turned it over and it sounded like it wanted to start, but didn't. I put the fuse back in and it started really weakly again at about 500 rpm. Then it died, and wouldn't start, so I took the fuse back out wondering if I had let it sit for long enough. And tried starting it again, and it really sounds like a few cylinders fire, but not quite. So I'm waiting for the battery to charge a bit more. I didn't know that fuel injected cars can flood.
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DjPantsSpecR
All Balls, No Boost

Offline
1652 posts
93 MS13 92 RMS13
BP MN
1-14-2005
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it happens all the time if you're fuel pressure regulator isnt tip top.are you CERTAIN that the plug wires are in the correct spots?
http://www.mnnissan.net Its like NICO, except for one state: Minnesota
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TheKryptKeeper
Offline
212 posts
Albuquerque NM
1-30-2007
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| « Re: It was f-ing running! WTF?!? (TheKryptKeeper) | 5:04 PM 5/14/2008 |
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Yea, same thing is happening, it starts, and it sounds like 4 cylinders, but you can't rev it or it dies, and if you are not a little bit on the throttle, it dies.
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DjPantsSpecR
All Balls, No Boost

Offline
1652 posts
93 MS13 92 RMS13
BP MN
1-14-2005
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you still havent told me about timing, and whenever i've had idling problems like this before it was because i had a large vacuum leak somewhere, usually around the intake manifold
http://www.mnnissan.net Its like NICO, except for one state: Minnesota
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TheKryptKeeper
Offline
212 posts
Albuquerque NM
1-30-2007
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| « Re: (DjPantsSpecR) | 7:10 PM 5/14/2008 |
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Alright, so it was timing. I set it to the number one cylinder post, but it was all off. Unless I was supposed to point it at the number one post, and then let it turn as I seated it. Anyway, I can get it to rev, and I can sort of time it, but it is the same as it was yesterday. It won't idle. I was screwing with the idle screw, but it did nothing. Unless I don't know where the idle screw is, cause it is no where close to the one shown in the book. The one I'm messing with is near the firewall on the passenger side, and I need to point the screwdriver medially towards the center of the engine. Not straight down in between the intake manifold like the manual says.
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DjPantsSpecR
All Balls, No Boost

Offline
1652 posts
93 MS13 92 RMS13
BP MN
1-14-2005
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you're thinking of the correct screw. i hope you are adjusting it with the TPS disconnectedwhen you're putting the dizzy in i think you did it right. once it seats, it should be pointed directly at the number one cyl post. either way, the problem is not in your IACV. you NEED TO GET THE TIMING RIGHT. this si timing problem. either your cams are off, or your ignition timing is off (im guessing both) but you need to get it right. so what exactly did you do today? you've been so vague is really hard to help you, i have to do all kinds of guess work and jsut throw things at you that i've run into or tried. basically what im hearing from you, is that today you took the front cover off, completely removed the idler sprocket from the engine, moved it either one tooth forward or one tooth back on the lower chain from where it previously sat, and then retimed the cams accordingly?
http://www.mnnissan.net Its like NICO, except for one state: Minnesota
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TheKryptKeeper
Offline
212 posts
Albuquerque NM
1-30-2007
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| « Re: (DjPantsSpecR) | 11:04 PM 5/14/2008 |
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Yes, I did do that. I also found a vacuum hose that was off. So I put it back in and it started running better, but it is still not running right. And the distributer didn't line up when I put it on I lined it up to the number one cylinder. That is the way that it was when I couldn't get it to rev at all, So I set it one more tooth before. Now it starts right up and runs, but it idles like crap. I can't really keep it running for very long, cause my heater core exploded, or something. It is draining into my cabin. Oh! Also, I have to have my distributer set all the way to the right, meaning that the actual distributer is turned counter-clockwise all the way. It seems to be dead on the 18 degrees BTDC. It will be easier when I can get it to idle right. Also, the idle adjustment screw isn't seeming to do anything. It doesn't raise the idle, or lower it. It seems to do absolutely nothing. Grrr. Krypt P.S. And thank you for your help. I am kinda just sitting around looking forward to your posts. :-P
Modified by TheKryptKeeper at 3:33 AM 5/15/2008
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TheKryptKeeper
Offline
212 posts
Albuquerque NM
1-30-2007
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| « Re: It was f-ing running! WTF?!? (TheKryptKeeper) | 11:14 PM 5/14/2008 |
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Yea, I just double checked and I had no tps and I screwed the idle adjustment all the way out, until it almost fell out in my hand and it did nothing to the idle. Then I screwed it all the way in and still no change. It revs great, but the idle just sucks. Anyway, I'm taking apart the dash tonight, so...FTL. Krypt
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TheKryptKeeper
Offline
212 posts
Albuquerque NM
1-30-2007
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| « Re: It was f-ing running! WTF?!? (TheKryptKeeper) | 2:36 AM 5/15/2008 |
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Alright, I took out the heater box thingy and filled it with water and it was leaking out, so I guess it's busted. Also, after it was filled, I pured it out and it was light brown. So I guess I'll flush the radiator too. Maybe I should just get a new dash too.P.S. If you are pretty handy with plastic, it's not really a problem. If you are horrible with plastic, don't try it.
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DjPantsSpecR
All Balls, No Boost

Offline
1652 posts
93 MS13 92 RMS13
BP MN
1-14-2005
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if you're dead on at 18dbtdc with the dizzy all the way to the right, the cams are off again. they must have been right beforewhen the cams are off the car will still idle and rev fine, you really shouldnt notice a difference other than power delivery. you've got a problem somewhere else. also having an unresponsive IACV isnt all that uncommon when its really dirty, mine does the same thing, except i dont bother because it's idling fine at 800 so move the idler sprocket one tooth in the same direction you moved it before if you cant get the dizzy to 20btdc with the bolt in the middle of the slot
http://www.mnnissan.net Its like NICO, except for one state: Minnesota
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TheKryptKeeper
Offline
212 posts
Albuquerque NM
1-30-2007
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| « Re: (DjPantsSpecR) | 1:08 PM 5/15/2008 |
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Alright, and I cleaned the IACV maybe a month before the head blew, btw. So I am getting increasingly worried about moving the cam far enough to cause it to hit the piston. Also, isn't moving the chain two teeth around the big part of the idler sprocket the same as moving the "dizzy" one tooth over? Cause I couldn't get it to work like that either. I don't want to get back in there if that isn't what it is. The distributer is turned all the way counter-clockwise to get 18 degrees at about 1100 rpm. Cause I can't get it to idle to actually check the timing correctly.
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DjPantsSpecR
All Balls, No Boost

Offline
1652 posts
93 MS13 92 RMS13
BP MN
1-14-2005
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moving the dizzy and moving the idler sprocket are two non mutually exclusive events. think it terms of degrees.and how are you going to hit a piston if you are reinstalling the cams to the correct position each time? you are either gonna be 8 degrees off, or spot on
http://www.mnnissan.net Its like NICO, except for one state: Minnesota
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TheKryptKeeper
Offline
212 posts
Albuquerque NM
1-30-2007
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| « Re: (DjPantsSpecR) | 3:52 PM 5/15/2008 |
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Doesn't moving the big sprocket one tooth make the smaller gear of the idler sprocket move half a tooth? Isn't that the whole reason that we are doing this? So the distributer lines up better? It feels like there is something that I'm not understanding. I'm not questioning you, but I worry that I'm going to screw something up somehow. And I am very greatfull that you are helping me so much. I'm going to go install my new heater core, then work on the idler gear now. Thanks!Krypt
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DjPantsSpecR
All Balls, No Boost

Offline
1652 posts
93 MS13 92 RMS13
BP MN
1-14-2005
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its like i cant stop helping you because its bugging the **** outta me, i gotta know!the reason we are moving the idler sprocket around is to get the cam timing absolutely correct. the distributor is just a diagnostic technique i've discovered. when you're cams are off, you wont be able to get the dizzy right. its the only thing i can think of short of asking you to take and post pictures of the cams at TDC.
http://www.mnnissan.net Its like NICO, except for one state: Minnesota
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TheKryptKeeper
Offline
212 posts
Albuquerque NM
1-30-2007
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| « Re: (DjPantsSpecR) | 5:11 PM 5/15/2008 |
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You want pictures? Done!
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TheKryptKeeper
Offline
212 posts
Albuquerque NM
1-30-2007
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| « Re: (TheKryptKeeper) | 5:31 PM 5/15/2008 |
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Keep in mind, this is AFTER i adjusted the big idler sprocket one tooth over. When I set up the cams the first time, the clearances between the cam lobe and the valve covers was nearly identical between intake and exhaust cam. 



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DjPantsSpecR
All Balls, No Boost

Offline
1652 posts
93 MS13 92 RMS13
BP MN
1-14-2005
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yeah, from those pictures alone i can tell its half a tooth off. so its one tooth at the idler sprocket, it looks like you were right the first time.how can i tell? the exhaust cam lobe is pointing too high. believe it or not, but its very easy for me to see those 8 degrees
http://www.mnnissan.net Its like NICO, except for one state: Minnesota
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TheKryptKeeper
Offline
212 posts
Albuquerque NM
1-30-2007
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| « Re: (DjPantsSpecR) | 8:24 PM 5/15/2008 |
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half a tooth, which way?
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