Timing woes. Engine removal?

[TheKryptKeeper]

Alright, I am changing a head gasket on my s13 ka24de. I have everything off, but now that I'm trying to get it timed, I have a problem. I can't ensure that the lower silver link is on the correct mark unless I take off the front cover, which requires taking off the oil pan, which requires an act of god, apparently. So what can I do?

I can put a dowel into the number one cylinder and watch it go up and down with the piston, and off of that I can set the cams to pretty much open and close correctly with TDC and BDC, but I'm not sure that I can get it exact just from eyeballing it. I don't want to screw it up cause it's an interfearence engine.

Surely just changing the camshafts and re-timing it doesn't require removing the engine to look at a lower timing mark, right? So why would this be any different?

Thank you all for your help.Krypt

P.S. A silly thought, but can't someone just get a protractor and give me the degree that the mark of the cam is at? :-P

[S13xCrazy]

IIRC there are 2 or 3 marks on the bottom chain, and 3 marks on the top. What we did was kept turning and turning the crank until we had them all line up. Let me find the picture i have, it really puts **** into perspective.

[TheKryptKeeper]

Yea, but my gear set that makes the top and the bottom chain turn together has been off. And if I put it back on 1 tooth off, then the valves will be a tooth off and it might hit the top of the piston. Do you know what I mean? I need to know if I can time it without setting the bottom chain. All I know is where TDC is, and I was hoping that I could just set everything right off of that. Surly this problem has been encountered before. What else do you guys do when changing the head?

Krypt

[jgour24]

As long as you know that you are at TDC, then the marks on the chain do not matter. Just make sure it is at TDC and then line your cams up to match.

[TheKryptKeeper]

So is it exactly how I think? That we should be at TDC on compression stroke, so it moves to BDC and the exhaust lobe opens and closes about at TDC while the intake opes all the way till BDC when everything is closed for the journey back up to TDC on compression stroke? I'm just so worried about getting it exactly right cause I already did it once and the last head turned out to not hold pressure, so the shop told me that I had bent the valves when I cranked it over by hand.

Any notes or advice helps.Thanks again,Derek

[TheKryptKeeper]

Bump

[TheKryptKeeper]

Can anyone help me out a bit more, or send me to an awesome "How to time your car" post? I'm going to get started as soon as I can.

[TheKryptKeeper]

Bump, i'll give you boobie pictures if you help me.

[TheKryptKeeper]

Please? Even if you can point me in the right direction I would appreciate it. I already searched like mad.

Krypt

[thefro526]

Here's a bunch of links:

http://www.nicoclub.com/articles.php?id ... ?id=161702

Here's the best link with pictures and everything. It's shows how to set the timing and remove the guide that likes to break. http://www.nicoclub.com/articles.php?id=105618

Bump, i'll give you boobie pictures if you help me.

I can Has Boobie Pictures now?

[DjPantsSpecR]

well, when the individual that said as long as you're at TDC you can set the cams up and they'll be fine was wrong.

there are two potential ways to put the cams in using this method. one is the correct way, and the other way is 8 degrees off.

this is because the idler sprocket has 19 and 36 teeth respectively. the cam gears themselves have 19 teeth to match the idler sprocket. so since 19/36 does not equal 2 you'll be off by about 8 degrees

and its so easy to do this and have a running 240, the only thing you'll notice is a loss of power. to the trained eye, its easy to tell if the cams are in the correct position, or are off by half a tooth

[TheKryptKeeper]

Alright, I'm going to try and time it by eye now. I'm talking about mechanical timing, BTW. I saw a picture somewhere of the top of the cams when at TDC, and that would really help. Thank you all, and wish me luck.

[Neil]

look in the shop manual. You do have the shop manual, right? if not, bad idea.

but anyway, jim wolf technology's website has a cam install writeup.

[TheKryptKeeper]

Oh yea I have a manual. I followed it step by step.

[thefro526]

Alright, I'm going to try and time it by eye now. I'm talking about mechanical timing, BTW. I saw a picture somewhere of the top of the cams when at TDC, and that would really help. Thank you all, and wish me luck.

There's a picture of the Cams at TDC in one of the links I posted above, I think it's the third one. IIRC both cams should be pointing outwards.

[TheKryptKeeper]

Yea, but not directly opposed. I know that they are on correct. It runs, but right now I'm having trouble with the timing. It revs, but it doesn't idle.