Continental DWS

[antzrus]

To start out, I need to disclose. I do not in any way have a familial, vocational nor financial relationship w/Continental tires. For about 20 years I drove on Continental tires w/my BMW motorcycles (R75/6 Black & R65 Havana Red-I think they called it!); until we had x2 boys and my wife made me quit: "Your sons need a father-not some stone somewhere..!" They performed excellently; not so the two folks who tried to take me out w/their cars over those years.

After spending about a year lurking on different auto sites, I sprung for my '06 M35x on E-Bay in Nov., 2007. It had about 31k on it and all the gadgets I had lusted for, for $32.5 k, and it was an M!!

I flew out to Sheridan, WY from Wenatchee, WA to pick it up. The approximately 850 miles back to Wenatchee was an adventure. We had lots of snow, rain, slush and dry highway to boot. The M howled like an F-16 in the rain and especially the slush. In the snow/slush it was all over the place as well as on the dry highway. I honest to gawd fought w/the steering wheel all over the place! I wondered what I had gotten myself into.

When I got home I went on line asking and looking for what was up. There was a lot of talk about bad steering racks and folks who had them changed w/mixed results. There was also some undercurrent about the OEM Goodyear RSA tires; they sucked.

My RSA's were about 75% gone and so instead of going the 175 miles to Seattle and leave the M there for a new steering rack and then returning a week or so later, I decided to first experiment w/new tires. The Conti's were my obvious choice because I had really trusted them on my Beemers. Somewhere on some auto forum I had read that the Continental Extreme Contact was the way to go. I liked its aggressive snow tire like tread pattern for an all season (I drive thru lots of snow) and so I went for a set.

My M immediately woke up to it true potential; rock steady through all manner of road conditions-mouse like noise level and only $133.00 US per tire in '07.

Yesterday I switched over to the newer ContiExtremeContact DWS. Just driving around town I notice my mouse like sounds from my old Conti's is gone. What more might I expect?

The right tire w/the '06 M35x (and others apparently) makes all the difference in the world between really getting a kick out of your machine and it's just a car.

Any pros & or cons re the DWS herein would be greatly appreciated. I'll keep a running log of my own experience w/this new (to me) ContiExtremeContact.

[Moon Man]

Thanks for the essay and all the important family details.

i have DWS on mine. They're decent, im not gonna rave about them.

I've had Michelin Sport PS2 on my Accord before and i can say the DWS comes nowhere near those in terms of performance and sticking to the road.

[antzrus]

Thanks for the essay and all the important family details.

i have DWS on mine. They're decent, im not gonna rave about them.

I've had Michelin Sport PS2 on my Accord before and i can say the DWS comes nowhere near those in terms of performance and sticking to the road.

Hey, you wanna' hear more about my family? I think my shrink is getting really tired...

The reason I rave (endlessly) is because it was like night and day, black and white, Democrat and Republican (well, maybe not as drastic...) the difference with the OEM tires and the Conti's. What I and many others have experienced w/tramlining has sent many on wild goose chases and even away from the M. I have not experienced the Michelins on an Accord-but for the '06 M35x (and many others M's) it literally makes the machine a keeper vs a short one time thing.

Someone w/a new MB on this forum once told me the Conti's where for sheet on his machine. Obviously, different machines require different geometry. Other than the Conti's wearing down prematurely, for an all season tire for the '06 M35x and other M's there isn't too much to complain about in my perception. Unless of course one's Prozac is pooping out...

[joneswood]

I recently switched from the OEM's to Continental (tires were almost done and performance was sloppy). I have noticed a distinct improvement with the car. Close to night and day, but not quite R & D.

[geomap55]

I switched from OEM RSA to DWS in January 2010. 9500 miles later I am happy with the change, but not estatic. Trasmlining is much, much better, but still is some (undoubtedly something inherent with the M). Handling is solid in wet and dry, but I can't speak to snow (but am glad I have them in case). Tire noise has increased some with time and wear is no better than average. I'd give them a 7.5 out of 10 overall, but a 9 out of 10 on value when compared with the Michelins that I have run for decades.

FYI, I run an 07 M35X with 29K miles.
Steve

[geomap55]

whoops, tramlining

[phillyM35]

my OEM RSA on my 07 M35x are pretty worn and i'm gonna be replacing them soon. Stuck between Conti's, Yoko's and Kuhmo's, not sure as to which to go for.

[antzrus]

I took my M out for a run up and down the Columbia River from Wenatchee, WA to Chelan, WA. We closed up our summer lake house for the winter. It was about 80 miles round trip and mostly flat alongside the river.

Now these tires are new, and I may be experiencing some degree of placebo here after lusting after the DWS for so long, but the road noise was noticeably less than the old Conti's (and I thought they were mouse-like) and the DWS really did seem to track very true. I mean I could take my hands off the wheel for a considerable time and she just continued down the road straight away-not quite so w/the older Conti's. Possibly the alignment job I got as well had something to do with it too.

Tramlinning? Hell, I'm even forgetting how to spell it...

[antzrus]

I have read herein of folks turning the wheel sharply to the right and hearing a sound as though the tires were rubbing up against the wheel well. I have noticed this off and on, but because it was no big deal I didn't think anything of it. However, these 245/45-18's (the same size as my old tires) do seem less bulbous (?) to me and that rubber against the wheel well sound is not present?

[MOWellsinVA]

I've been very pleased with the performance of the ExtremeContact DWS's I had installed last month. Ride quality is much better and they seem to have plenty of grip. Tire noise appears to be minimal. I feel better knowing that they are on, especially since were are expecting a lot of rain tomorrow.

[antzrus]

I've been very pleased with the performance of the ExtremeContact DWS's I had installed last month. Ride quality is much better and they seem to have plenty of grip. Tire noise appears to be minimal. I feel better knowing that they are on, especially since were are expecting a lot of rain tomorrow.

Needless to say, me too...

[szh]

I've had Michelin Sport PS2 on my Accord before and i can say the DWS comes nowhere near those in terms of performance and sticking to the road.

I agree with this assessment. I have not used the Pilot Sport PS2, but someone I trust compared them very similarly to my last favorite (now gone! ) tire: the Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3.

Bottom line messages:

• A high-performance summer tire (like the Michelin or Goodyear above) is going to outshine a high-performance all-season tire in summer conditions.
• In light snow or sub-zero temperatures, the all-seasons will save your butt compared to what will happen to the summer tires - they get rock-hard and slide.
• In deep snow, a true winter tire will avoid accidents that an all-season may not handle properly or safely.

Z

[antzrus]

I've had Michelin Sport PS2 on my Accord before and i can say the DWS comes nowhere near those in terms of performance and sticking to the road.

I agree with this assessment. I have not used the Pilot Sport PS2, but someone I trust compared them very similarly to my last favorite (now gone! ) tire: the Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3.

Bottom line messages:

• A high-performance summer tire (like the Michelin or Goodyear above) is going to outshine a high-performance all-season tire in summer conditions.
• In light snow or sub-zero temperatures, the all-seasons will save your butt compared to what will happen to the summer tires - they get rock-hard and slide.
• In deep snow, a true winter tire will avoid accidents that an all-season may not handle properly or safely.

Z

Continental ExtremeContact DW
1 100% 8.7-----9.0------9.1-----8.8-----9.2------8.5--N/A N/A N/A ----9.3-----9.2------8.6
Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 ZP
2 97% 8.8------8.8------8.7-----9.2-----9.4------9.3--N/A N/A N/A-----8.5-----8.6------7.8
Michelin Pilot Sport PS2
3 96% 8.6------8.5------8.7-----9.2-----9.4------9.2--N/A N/A N/A-----8.6-----8.5------7.4
Continental ExtremeContact DWS
1 100% 8.5-----9.1-----9.2------8.3----8.8------8.2--8.8--8.0--7.7---8.9-----8.7------9.0


Look at these numbers from the TireRack. The all season DWS is pretty damn good in my opinion-unless you are a race car driver and/or you have all kinds of money to spend on specialized tires for each season. You are damn safe w/the DWS in summer and winter (the N/A scores for the summer tires). But then I've yet to have an accident in winter driving-it's always backing up in the summer that gets me...

[The00Dustin]

Continental ExtremeContact DW
1 100% 8.7-----9.0------9.1-----8.8-----9.2------8.5--N/A N/A N/A ----9.3-----9.2------8.6
Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 ZP
2 97% 8.8------8.8------8.7-----9.2-----9.4------9.3--N/A N/A N/A-----8.5-----8.6------7.8
Michelin Pilot Sport PS2
3 96% 8.6------8.5------8.7-----9.2-----9.4------9.2--N/A N/A N/A-----8.6-----8.5------7.4
Continental ExtremeContact DWS
1 100% 8.5-----9.1-----9.2------8.3----8.8------8.2--8.8--8.0--7.7---8.9-----8.7------9.0


Look at these numbers from the TireRack. The all season DWS is pretty damn good in my opinion-unless you are a race car driver and/or you have all kinds of money to spend on specialized tires for each season. You are damn safe w/the DWS in summer and winter (the N/A scores for the summer tires). But then I've yet to have an accident in winter driving-it's always backing up in the summer that gets me...

Antz, you keep saying this, but you're a shrink, how can you not be going "well, maybe a different group of a different type of people is rating a different group of a different type of tire and the ratings between these classes shouldn't be compared"? Even if the same people are rating the tires, they should be rating them as the type of tire they are, so a 9 in snow on an all-season might be comparable to a 6 in snow on a snow tire. Sure, the people who actually buy the summer tires think they could be better than they are, but do you really think they'd be happier with your DWS? Have you ever used the summer/winter tires? Same goes for the winter tires, lots of people think the all-season means it's good for winter, and I had no problem with my Pilot Sport A/S Plus all-season tires last year, but they don't have the M+S designation or snowflake logo or whatever it is that is only allowed on tires that meet certain criteria by some groups or organizations. I don't know the details on who controls these designations/insignias, but you've never flat out suggested that these designations/insignias that tires have to have to be snow tires are provided by lobbyist funding or even acknowledged that they exist (that I remember), and I have to assume there are relevent tire specification requirements in place even if there is funding going under the table somewhere. I haven't driven on summers or snows made with the latest technology, so I can't comment on the difference between them and all-seasons made with the latest technology, but I was in several situations last year where it would have been nice to have more traction, and it was never because there was snow stuck in my treads. I just don't want to have two sets of wheels or deal with the extra mounts and dismounts, especially when I have to pay to play and don't know how much better it is or isn't (I've had bad luck trying the other brand or the other tire in the past).

[szh]

Look at these numbers from the TireRack. The all season DWS is pretty damn good in my opinion-unless you are a race car driver and/or you have all kinds of money to spend on specialized tires for each season. You are damn safe w/the DWS in summer and winter (the N/A scores for the summer tires). But then I've yet to have an accident in winter driving-it's always backing up in the summer that gets me...[/b][/color]

Well ... on my 2003 M45, I have used - in a 245/45-18 size (except the Turanza was the OEM 235/45-18 size):

• Bridgestone Turanza ER33 (stock tire it came with). Grand Touring Summer.
• Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3. Max Performance Summer. Two sets of tires.
• Michelin Pilot Sport A/S. Ultra High-Performance All-Season.
• Continental ExtremeContact DWS. Ultra High-Performance All-Season.

And, with my own experience on a single car (I have used other tires but on different cars), I would rank the above tires (driving in summer conditions) as follows:

Goodyear: 9.5 out of 10
Michelin: 8.5 out of 10
Continental: 8.7 out of 10
Bridgestone: 8 out of 10 (started as 5 out of 10, till the first 1/10 to 2/10" tread wore off - the car had been sitting in the lot too long, I think).

The Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 was easily the best in handling, curves, tracking in straight lines, dry and wet braking and general wet weather performance of all the above tires - in every way superior in everything except the "road quietness" category (which the Turanza won). Indeed, it's wet weather performance for braking was among the best I have ever experienced on any car - very similar to my old Gold Standard: the Firestone Firehawk SZ-50EP (no longer made ). The Goodyear lasted about 18k to 21k miles (two different sets), which is good for this class of tire. But, I would never consider driving on them in near-zero/sub-zero temperatures, let alone in light snow!

Although I have not used the Pilot PS2, someone I trust has compared them very similarly to the Eagle F1 GS-D3 - on the same car and same tire size (a 2000 or 2001 Q45) - so I would expect the PS2 to rank right up there as well.

The Michelin Pilot Sport A/S and Continental are very similar tires in msot ways. The Continental handles better on curves in dry conditions, but similar to the Michelin in wet. They track better in a straight line compared to the Michelin, but not enough to be dramatically perceptible, and do seem to have a slightly lighter feel when turning (lower rolling resistance perhaps?). On highway bumps, neither tire was as good as the Goodyear - that Eagle absorbs Bott's Dots very, very well for example! However, the Michelin was quite a bit quieter and lasted a bit longer - (albeit neither tire is near the longevity that I wanted/expected out of them).

Given that the Continental is also a lot lower cost to the Michelin (rather its replacement: Pilot Sport A/S Plus), I would buy them instead of the Michelin - that was my reason to switch the last time, since I thought they would perform similarly, but were a lot lower in price. I used the Michelin for light snow conditions (trip to Lake Tahoe) and they were fine in cold weather - no actual snow was falling when I was there - and on packed light snow. I would expect the Continental to perform similarly in snow, but I have not yet taken them to Tahoe yet. My major disappointment with the Continental has been the very poor tread life - I was expecting to get at least 35k out of them, but I think I will need to replace at the 18k to 20k mark.

The Turanza ER33 (size was actually 235/45-18) started out as a dangerously skittish tire - curves at moderate to high speeds were white-knuckle moments, even in dry weather! But, after the hardened rubber wore off - relatively quickly, I might add (they were sitting in the dealer lot for many months, I suspect) - they improved dramatically. To the point where I would rank them much better than many tires out there. They were the quietest of the bunch and tracked surprisingly well, almost comparable to the Michelin and Continentals. The only problem is the unrealistic high price - for that amount, much better summer tires are available, albeit not as quiet.

Z

[antzrus]

"...the Continental has been the very poor tread life - I was expecting to get at least 35k out of them, but I think I will need to replace at the 18k to 20k mark."---z

As I've said before z, your feetz are made of lead !!

[Mark Linkous]

Hello,
All I can say is going from OEM Pilot MXM4's to Pilot Sport 2's has utterly transformed my 2004 M45. Some of it could be my MXM4's were almost 4 years old, however the grip and Braking has been massively improved.

Luckily, the PS2's were eligible for the Infiniti Tire Program. This means a 2 year Warranty, Road Side Service, and more. I did have to debate to get my Service Advisor to put 245-45-18's instead of the OEM 235-45-18's, but as has been pointed out by Szhosain and others there are slim pickings in the OEM Size.

The Price was close to Tire Rack when figuring in Roadside Hazard and the cost of Mounting and Balancing. Also, the PS2's were filled with Nitrogen for free. Doing this with the 60,000 Mile Service did make for a painful Bill.
Cheers,
ML

[antzrus]

With the weather now down below 32 degrees, the noise of the front tires making contact w/the wheel well has appeared to come back. Again it is only w/extreme turns to the right when parking or leaving a parking space. I thought the DWS was possibly not as wide as the older ExtremeContacts-but of course they are the same 245/45-18 size and so I was thinking irrationally; not unusual for me...

[The00Dustin]

With the weather now down below 32 degrees, the noise of the front tires making contact w/the wheel well has appeared to come back. Again it is only w/extreme turns to the right when parking or leaving a parking space. I thought the DWS was possibly not as wide as the older ExtremeContacts-but of course they are the same 245/45-18 size and so I was thinking irrationally; not unusual for me...

My Park Avenue Ultra had a hole in each wheel well where the back of the tires rubbed completely through from tight turns for parking and what not.

[antzrus]

My Park Avenue Ultra had a hole in each wheel well where the back of the tires rubbed completely through from tight turns for parking and what not.

Whoa! This sound I hear I've heard from other M owners. It only happens w/the extreme right hand turns and it sounds not very loud-nor harsh. I just space it out-it happens so rarely.

[szh]

"...the Continental has been the very poor tread life - I was expecting to get at least 35k out of them, but I think I will need to replace at the 18k to 20k mark."---z

As I've said before z, your feetz are made of lead !!

Probably!

Z

[mcp6530]

I WAS impressed with my DWS tires when I replaced them a little over a year ago. Great performance from them, but about a month or two ago, I started hearing a lot of noise coming from the tires. I took my car in to where I got the tires and was told they are "chopped". This means they have worn unevenly basically or that the tire is no longer perfectly round. I have put about 22,000 miles on the tires and they sound like total crap now. I'm done with conti's and changing them out next spring. I can't bring myself to change them out now since the tread is still good on them, but they sound like garbage.
So, if you like your conti dws tires now, let me know how they sound after 20k miles. My car has 55k miles on it.
2006 M35x

[antzrus]

I WAS impressed with my DWS tires when I replaced them a little over a year ago. Great performance from them, but about a month or two ago, I started hearing a lot of noise coming from the tires. I took my car in to where I got the tires and was told they are "chopped". This means they have worn unevenly basically or that the tire is no longer perfectly round. I have put about 22,000 miles on the tires and they sound like total crap now. I'm done with conti's and changing them out next spring. I can't bring myself to change them out now since the tread is still good on them, but they sound like garbage.
So, if you like your conti dws tires now, let me know how they sound after 20k miles. My car has 55k miles on it.
2006 M35x

I've read other folks herein complain of their tires being "chopped." I did a search and there are all kinds of explanations-but none have to do with the tire itself. I would suggest you take it to a reputable alignment shop and see if they can't figure out what happened.

[1scottie]

My tires cupped real bad on my M with now two sets of tires. I am still not convinced i dont have a bad wheel bearing or something. I took it to a local Firestone and they found attributed the cupped/chopped tires to rear shocks, one is completely saturated with oil and other is damp near the top. This is in 57kmi, I thaught it was premature; I have the Elite warranty but it does not cover shocks. Anyway, check the rear shocks and see if they may be the culprit...if they are worn then the tire will loose contact with the road and chop the tire over time. Again, one area of Infiniti's lack of quaility shining through...shocks in 57kmi is way too early IMHO.

[antzrus]

My tires cupped real bad on my M with now two sets of tires. I am still not convinced i dont have a bad wheel bearing or something. I took it to a local Firestone and they found attributed the cupped/chopped tires to rear shocks, one is completely saturated with oil and other is damp near the top. This is in 57kmi, I thaught it was premature; I have the Elite warranty but it does not cover shocks. Anyway, check the rear shocks and see if they may be the culprit...if they are worn then the tire will loose contact with the road and chop the tire over time. Again, one area of Infiniti's lack of quaility shining through...shocks in 57kmi is way too early IMHO.

Yes, I had bad front bearings at about 55K, got replaced. Then the shocks (all) went at about 57k too! Yes, a bit soon, but not that bad. I've got 60k on her now and all is well...

[antzrus]

Whoa! I finally got these babies on some decent snow and ice, ice, ice. We flew. My yellow slip indicator light never lit, but we saw others all over the road and side of the road. On Blewett Pass we got stopped for about 2.5 hours w/2 semi's jackknifed in front of us. It was f24 (c-4.4), we kept the engine off the whole time and the interior stayed warm-altho we fogged up the windows. Between my Conti's and my M; best contraptions on the road!!

[antzrus]

Damn, this tire is dynamite in the snow! Been out all day tooling around looking for a challenge. There is none. From ice, to 6+ inches fresh snow on the road going up, up, up and around and around doing donuts in the snow on the road to Mission Ridge (our local ski area) this tire performed quite admirably.

Yes, dedicated snow tires are dedicated snow tires, expensive and labor intensive.

But dedicated snow tires...

[The00Dustin]

Damn, this tire is dynamite in the snow! Been out all day tooling around looking for a challenge. There is none. From ice, to 6+ inches fresh snow on the road going up, up, up and around and around doing donuts in the snow on the road to Mission Ridge (our local ski area) this tire performed quite admirably.

Yes, dedicated snow tires are dedicated snow tires, expensive and labor intensive.

But dedicated snow tires...

Oh come on Antz, are you selling these tires, or are you going to elaborate a little bit and tell us how slow you drive in the snow when you feel oh so confident?

[antzrus]

Damn, this tire is dynamite in the snow! Been out all day tooling around looking for a challenge. There is none. From ice, to 6+ inches fresh snow on the road going up, up, up and around and around doing donuts in the snow on the road to Mission Ridge (our local ski area) this tire performed quite admirably.

Yes, dedicated snow tires are dedicated snow tires, expensive and labor intensive.

But dedicated snow tires...

Oh come on Antz, are you selling these tires, or are you going to elaborate a little bit and tell us how slow you drive in the snow when you feel oh so confident?

..................................................................................................

[antzrus]

"My Continental DWS tires make me feel so safe when I'm driving 5 mph"

OMG! Where'd you get my 2001 AARP Powder Puff Derby picture?