Z32 brake upgrade questions...

[SpartanAir]

Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse here, but I just wanted to clarify a couple things. I read all the threads on the z32 to q45 upgrades, but I'm still foggy.

Other than splash shield issues, they should bolt right on, front and rear?

And for brake lines, what was decided as the best method to go? I understand there are 2 female ends on the z32 lines, which don't work for the Q. I also read that there is a 240 conversion line kit that might work. Or you can grind down the stock lines? And are S/S lines worth it?

Elwesso, it seems like you're familiar with the process...help from you or anyone else is appreciated!

[elwesso]

if you want to go to stainless than use the 240sx conversion lines.. Thats what i put on my car and they work pretty good.. Just be sure you line up the fitting on the caliper right because its easy to orient it such that it hits the sway bar end link...

Overall the Z32 brake conversion isnt worth it (have to get spacers/wheels to clear them) if you dont plan on ever racing the car... The only reason its nice is because theres so many rotor/pad options. Thats the only reason I went with them. The stock Q brakes with hawk HPS will be about all you'd ever want for the street.

[SpartanAir]

Hmm, interesting to know. Well I already have spacers for my wheels because I have overfenders, so that's not a problem. I do like the idea of better pad and rotor options. The President Sovereign is also a heavier car so I thought it would be a good way to go.

Just clicking on a few Nico links, I found Agency Power kits on MVP, $54 front $49 rear.Circuit Sports from Phase 2, $60 front $55 rear.Also found PDM racing lines for $65 a pair, as per the importnut writeup for the 240.

Which conversion kit did you use specifically, and where did you buy them Wes?

[Infinitiguy19]

I read in one of Q45techs posts that the increased weight of the Z32 calipers negate any advantages when used to replace Q45 calipers.

The only things I can think of which would make them worth while like Wes said is:

There fixed calipers VS the Q45's stock floating calipers, hence Z32 calipers are easier to work on.

They are finned (I heard from one guy) or there bigger which allows more air to get to them and cool them down.

And Nissan is engraved on them which is uber cool.

[SpartanAir]

Well I had to do my rear pads anyways, and I came across a SMOKIN deal on a full caliper set with rotors and pads...combined with S/S brake lines, should be good.

Also, I doubt anyone in North America has done the conversion to a President Sovereign, which is heavier and bigger than a normal Q. Of course, we will see if I notice a difference. I'm gonna fix my TCS first too :P

[Q45tech]

Rotor temeperature rise is purely a function of rotor weight..............above 80 mph cooling air comes into play in repeated stops.

The point is without a larger, thicker, heavier rotor don't expect much in cooler rotor temperatures.Ideally one wants a rotor that weighs 2-4 pounds more to drop rotor temperature 10-20%. Thicker is better than larger diameter up to 34mm [oem 28 mm] [300zx 30 mm] IF THE WEIGH GOES UP.

Adding 200 pounds [4300>4500] only increases front rotor temperature by 11F in an 80 mph panic stop. The average rotor temperature [4300] increases only 204F in total [215F w/4500].

[maxnix]

Short answer is it's even debatable if Z32 rotors are an upgrade for initial cold stops or track use. One must be focused on intended use of the vehicle.

Weigh the respective rotors, measure pad area, calculate hydraulic clamping force. Don't assume.

[Q45tech]

Examine the braking system on new SUV if you want excellant brakes for a heavy car, don't go backwards and look to lighter weight cars.

[elwesso]

Which conversion kit did you use specifically, and where did you buy them Wes?

I think I got the "friend of a friend deal". I remember them being about the same price as the Q45 SS lines, which is why I went with them...

I dont completely agree that lower rotor temps is the ONLY goal in a brake upgrade... Especially when many times the rotors for larger brake kits are twice as expensive as those from say a Z32. You can get Z rotors for maybe $70 a piece.. Not to mention, it takes a lot of clamping force and more HP to overcome the additional rotating mass.. Of course lower rotor temps will lead to longer life but still, brake fade can be dealt with higher temperature pads...

You really get a range of temps to use brake pads. OEM has great cold temperature and you get about one great panic stop before you fade... Not bad for a moderately driven street car. Compare to hawk HPS, which is still a street pad, which you must warm up a little bit in order to get any sort of reasonable stopping power.. But you can really cook them before you start seeing fade.

in my opinion, it makes more sense to use a cheaper brake setup and select a brake pad that more closely fits the temperature ranges that you're looking at...

The iron Z calipers (from 94+ Z) weigh very similar to stock Q45.. The aluminum ones (from early twin turbo) weigh noticeably less (just by holding/installing).. Static mass is really insignificant, its the rotating mass that you concern yourself with, and the difference Z32 vs Q45 is negligible.

Bottom line if you never plan on racing the car, just get hawk HPS pads and new rotors for the Q brakes and you're gonna be as good if not better than Z32 on Q.

Again, if I wasnt taking my Q to the track all the time, no way i'd use the Z32 brakes... They're really not that much of an upgrade for the average user..

[Q45tech]

Good idea to learn:Weight of car times speed then convert to foot pounds of energy.To stop this, energy must be dissipated in how many pounds of rotors.That's all there is too it.

A 4,000 pound car travelling at 88 ft per second has 352,000 ft/lb/sec energy...............550 ft/lbs/sec is 1 HP........... thats's 640 HP to stop. So in 3 seconds we use 213 HP per second.

In 3 seconds our engines cannot get the Q to 30 mph. So oem brakes are more than twice as powerful as our engine.

Our measly 300 HP engine weighs how much vs 58 pounds of [4] rotors!

[jimbyjimb]

How many homebuilt musclecars you figure are out there with 700hp and inadequate braking upgrades? Scary. The 9inch drums of yor are indeed a frightening apparatus. Funny to think 500hp cars came in the 60's with "large" 11-inch drums for fronts. After warm up look out!

[SpartanAir]

I think I'll still go ahead with the conversion, since I'm getting such a smokin deal. Like Wes said, there are many pad and rotor option, and there is a chance I will track my car this summer...just for the hell of it Would be nice to have proper brakes for this beast ie. slotted or drilled and proper pads.I personally like super grippy brakes, got used to them on the GTR.

[elwesso]

Most of that has to do with the pads...

Yeah, if you're going to go on with it just let me know of any questions you have.

[jjbuzzman]

I have 3 Q45's, one of which already had the Z brake upgrade when I bought it. And they do look good with the NISSAN name boldly molded into the body - with the right wheels this can look pretty exotic. There were also SS brake lines and, I believe, an upgrade in the pressure system for this set-up as well.

Recently, I had the entire Z brake system serviced - turned and balanced the rotors, new high performance pads, BG fluid flush and change, etc. Now, with all that being said, I still highly prefer the stock brakes in my other two cars. I put new Bembro rotors on my '90, did all the same services, and those are now the finest brakes I have ever experienced. To me, the Z brakes take more pedal pressure, and convey less road feel than my stock brakes.

Conversely, I have not done any panic stop tests, nor do I race my cars. So, the real benefits of the Z brake system may be lost on me. Except, they do look good on my '93!

Jim in the western NC mountains