Yay, my first big problem(long post inside)

[KlanjacOFF]

Well, I cranked up the car for the first time last night and it fired up on the first try! It did idle pretty high, around 1500rpm, thought it might be something with the TPS, so I let it warm up to operating temps and all and then let it cool down and sit over night. Then today or I guess its now tonight, I took it out for its first drive. So, I cranked it up and it idled high again and then as I was letting it warm up the revs start bouncing from about 1000-2000 and wouldnt stop(figured it still had to do with the TPS as well). Well at this point it was already warmed up and I said oh well and took it out for some breaking in. Took it down the street and it was running great! as long as I gave it some throttle, as soon as I didn't, the RPMs would fall and it would bounce again like I described earlier at idle. I drove some more and it stopped doing that and idled perfectly. I then continued to drive it around for awhile and it never did it again. I was doing all the break in things, running it with about 3/4s throttle and giving it a little boost here and there. yada yada yada, and it was doing everything perfectly! Thinking like a true car guy I knew that problems never fix themselves...

Heres the problem, all of a sudden, like at the snap of a finger, The car loses all power, start idling really low, it will barely drive itself no matter where the throttle was at or what gear I was in, bucking and the airbag light was flashing. My headlights were flashing on, off and dimming. My dash was doing the same thing. The CD player went out, and eventually the car just died and would go no further.

I had to call my buddy and we had to push it about a mile back to my house. Then when I got home I checked the wires and made sure everything was still connected and what not and it all looked good. I plugged the battery back in and it still had full power, my headlights worked, CD player, E-fans all that stuff. Everything that was not working before. And of course I have not tried cranking it again as it has to cool down all the way. I'm thinking its a wiring related problem, but who knows. I just dont get it because it was running so well and then that happened. Let me know what you guys think. I dont want to crank it up(if it does) and drive it off and have that happen again.

Modified by KlanjacOFF at 9:46 PM 8/14/2008
Modified by KlanjacOFF at 5:03 PM 10/19/2008

[gawdzilla]

too much amp draw for your alternator? did your e-fans try to kick on right around when the dimming started happening?

how were your coolant temps?

[KlanjacOFF]

I thought about that but I cant see how its possible, unless the RB alternator is that crappy. My fans, well one of them was on when I left to drive it and I noticed the other one came on when I stopped once. but like I said I drove it around for about 15 minutes like that, and then everything went nuts. lights dimming etc etc. Most people use the stock RB25 alternator with e-fans, HIDs and no problems right? Once my headlights started flashing, the car died about 2 minutes later.

I dont have an exact reading of the coolant temps, but they stayed below the middle mark the entire time I was driving.

Would pulling too much amperage from the alternator cause it too go bad, or could I shut some electrical components off and it still work like normal?

[KlanjacOFF]

Just had the alternator tested and it was perfect.

[gawdzilla]

when i had my old alternator on (90 amp rb26 alt), with the e-fans on, lights, no stereo, various gauges.. my laptop when i plugged it in to the cig lighter to charge, would turn on and off as if i was plugging it in and unplugging it. to me that meant i was drawing too many amps for the alt. the 25 alt is 80amps. what e-fans do you have?

is your base timing set correctly? is your coolant level good and bled well?

i'm thinking you either overheated the motor or demanded too many amps from your alt.

you mention airbag light coming on and lights flashing. were the lights just dimming like the batt was dying, or was it more like an electrical problem?

[ANVIL]

i had sorta the same symtoms, and ended up getting my alternator rebuilt and it still had the same problem.

stupid question but did u check all your fuses?

when i first swapped my rb i had some wiring issues even after driving it awhile. my alternator wiring was kinda messed up. i blew the battery fuse a few times, and also blew the fusable link. just throwing this out there to give u another thing to check...

[s14_sport]

what kinda ECU u runnin?

[KlanjacOFF]

Its on a stock ECU, checked most of my fuses, everyone was good. I'm using FAL 210/220 2500CFM pushers with a Koyo Radiator. Yes I bled the coolant properly, with the heat on and at an angle. It was one of the first things I did. I really don't see how it could have overheated. Engine wasn't hot...like overheating hot, and even though the gauge is ****ty in the dash, it should've gone up alot more than where it was sitting. Base Timing was set as per the FSM.

I was driving along and I first noticed that my idle was really low(around 500ish), and it sounded like it had aggressive cams in it. Then my driverside headlight starting dimming and coming back on followed by the passenger side one, dash starting fading in and out, airbag light kept flashing and fading out, Cd player kicked off(had no music playing though) and then the car had no power at all. All of this happened in about 2 minutes before it shut down.

Like I said the car was running absolutely perfect before this, no hiccups or stumbles or rumbles. I was really surprised it was running so well. Then this **** happened. As soon as I can get a 9volt battery for my multimeter I'm going to go through all the alternator and battery wiring to see what the voltage looks like, might be a bad connection somewhere and the battery isn't getting enough power, but everything is bolted tight.

This morning I took the alternator off and had it tested, and put it back on. Then checked all the power and ground wiring. Cranked it and it started, but is still running like crap. It sounds like a Subaru, as if some of the sparkplugs aren't firing and my RPM gauge is no longer working or is not getting a reading. When I remove the negative cable off of the battery it dies as well, which I thought meant the alternator is bad, but it is not. Thanks for the help so far fellas.

[s14_sport]

hmmmmm...how are the FAL fans hooked up? fused? relayed? etc?

[ANVIL]

replace the fusable link. its that thing that looks like a sensor connector that connects to the B+ on ur battery. they arent too exspensive. if u cant locate one you can make one, just have to find out what the rating is on the oem one.

[KlanjacOFF]

The fans are hooked up with a 30A fuse and then its connected directly to the positive wire from my battery in the trunk.

Still not sure what these fusible link is, got a picture?

[240z4u]

How good are your grounds?

From block to frame? From frame to battery?

There have been situations when good grounds were not made in the trunk and engine compartment and the car wouldn't even start!

Evan

[KlanjacOFF]

They should be pretty good. Block to frame, even sanded down the spot on the frame some. I also ran another ground from the block to the frame where the A/C bracket bolts up. Battery ground is hooked up to a bolt on the tow hook thing just past the rear passenger tire. I think they are good grounds, anyway to test this?

I did manage to test the battery, and running the voltage was 12.14. Then not running the voltage was 12.35, at the battery and at the line up front in the engine bay. RPM gauge still does not work. Took a video of it running, maybe that will help. I'm just really afraid to keep cranking it as the engine is brand new and its misfiring.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ba_P7ultoDY

[chockrl]

While running battery voltage should be 14+ volts. 12.14V is too low. If the alternator tests good, then something is pulling too much amperage/shorting out.

[KlanjacOFF]

Well I wonder why it did ok for the first 20 minutes I had it running. I just didn't expect to have a problem with the alternator being too small, as I thought more people would have said something or I would have read more about it. What is the KA alternator rated at? I had no problems with it and ran all of the same components, minus the e-fans. Still need to figure out why my tach is not working, does it run off a fuse or anything like that? I'm going to crank it again tomorrow with nothing attached except for the lower harness, fuse plugs and fans, then see what the voltage looks like.

[gawdzilla]

the car will definitely crap out under 12.5V running. maybe you slowly drained the battery to under the threshold where it can run properly. do you have a small short somewhere?

also, how well is your ECU grounded? did you ground the head too? you only mentioned the block being grounded.

who did your wiring job? some things i noticed that are missing from your wiring job just by looking at your gauge cluster on startup: the factory oil light should be lit with ign on before you crank the car and up until the car is running for ~1-2 seconds (bottom left, red color). the check engine light should also be on (bottom left, yellow color) and clear up once the car is running. i don't remember where the battery icon is, but that should be on with ign on, and should turn off once the car starts to indicate charging. is that the light that turns off when you start it in the video? in fact all 3 should be on with ign on, then turn off once the car starts. i dont see any of those happening except maybe the battery one? or is that the airbag warning light?

finally, what is that red light that is permanently on in the bottom right? door open? only things that should be on when the engine is running is the seat belt light and door ajar light in your video.

i'd definitely look into the harness being your culprit. would explain the tach not working and maybe even your idle surge (IACV not wired right?)
Modified by gawdzilla at 4:35 AM 8/16/2008

[240z4u]

Agreed with ^^

That voltage is way low, likely is what you were seeing.

Your alternator is apparently not charging.

Evan

[KlanjacOFF]

Damn, I didnt even think about those lights not coming on. God, that just one more thing to worry about, maybe they will work once I find this short. Gary at Syko Performance did my harness and I doubt he missed anything, I have been e-mailing him back and forth everyday along with checking this thread to try and figure this out, even if something was messed up I'm sure he would take care of me.

The head is grounded with a 16 or 18 gauge wire, nothing big, maybe I should get something bigger? The light permanently on is the door ajar and brake light. As for the idle surge I believe I need to calibrate the TPS for that, and the tach did work until this happened. I think I may have found the short as well. Is their a wire that runs to the inside of the fusebox on the S14?

[gawdzilla]

im pretty surprised the wiring job left off your battery light, low oil pressure light, check engine light, and tach. definitely point the finger at those first. there shouldn't be any added wires that run into the fuse box really. what are those for?

[KlanjacOFF]

Wow, so it has been an incredibly long time since I have updated or even worked on the car. Well I finally came home this weekend from school to mess with it some more. I discovered awhile back that my dumbass self grounded out the main power wire from the alternator, the one that is supposed to go to the fuse box. Which is why it died on me initially. God, all of this happened because of a wrongly placed wire!! Learned my lesson.

Anyways, I came home this weekend and took apart the lower harness looking for a short anywhere in there, and all was ok. I also put a rebuilt alternator on the car as I figured my current one was toast seeing as the car was running at 12.1 volts. Thanks to RawBrokerage for that! Put the lower harness back on with the new alternator, connected the wires to the right locations this time and changed out the oil as she had been sitting for a long time. I cranked her up and she ran just as ****ty as before. Exactly like in the vid I posted awhile back... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ba_P7ultoDY. Still misfiring and running like poo, except now the car is running at the correct voltage (14.4). Tach still didn't work as well. I'll state again that it did work previous to all this happening.

I then took out all the spark plugs and it looks like 1,2,5 & 6 are not firing. Everyone one of them was wet and smelled strong, and the opposite could be said for 3 and 4. Running on 2 cylinders FTL. So I'm thinking that maybe the coilpacks or ignitor got fried in the process. What do you guys think? I need to test the coilpacks and ignitor, can someone explain how to do this or post up a link please.

I'm praying that nothing else got damaged and that I didn't glaze the cylinder walls with all the excess gas. Thanks once again.

[240z4u]

If your blowing a bunch of fuel in there that isnt getting burned you need your oil changed NOW.

[KlanjacOFF]

Yea, I changed it before I touched it this weekend and I'll change it again before I crank it up again.

[Carl H]

might have roasted the ecu or ignitor if it has one.

[KlanjacOFF]

I did take apart the ecu and visually inspected it to check for any burn marks and saw nothing. I need to find someone locally that can swap with me and see. Might explain why the tach doesn't work anymore

As for the ignitor...how can I test it besides swapping it out?

[gawdzilla]

can the motor even run down 4 cylinders? something tells me it wont

[240z4u]

can the motor even run down 4 cylinders? something tells me it wont

Best case he would get sputtering out the exhaust, certainly not a running condition as you pointed out.

[Carl H]

mos240 had his car running on 3 cylinders...

[KlanjacOFF]

Well regardless it ran ****ty, 2 sparkplugs were firing correctly....from what I saw when I pulled them out. Maybe the others were putting out something, but not much as they were soaked in gas.

So about that testing...

[USMCgetsome]

start probing the back of the ecu with power on and seeing what voltages you get. That will eliminate the ecu. I mean literally check ign pulse signal and fuel injector pulse. Once you confirm those, move on to the igniter/coilpacks. Pull out each pack individually and ground it to the valve cover to check for spark. Disable fuel injectors while performing that test. Also, regap all spark plugs while they're out. Next.... YOU TELL ME!

[Darius]

The plugs are wet, so he is obviously getting fuel. Disconnect the injector harness, pull the coil packs and plugs. Then, rest the tips of the plugs against the valve cover and watch to see if they all fire as you turn the key to START. Helps to have someone else turn the key.

If you're getting spark to each plug, then it is most likely an ECU and ignitor problem. They're tougher to troubleshoot, so do those next. Easiest way is to replace them with known good ones and see if it helps.