y33 wheel bearings

[cheez80]

gentlemen,forgive me if this question has been asked numerous times.

i'm having some weird clicking noises coming from the wheel areas -- i can hear it when i'm driving past the curb with the windows down. the clicking noises increase and decrease with speed. i've been thinking it might be the wheel bearings, but is there anything else i should eliminate before digging into those? is there a way to verify that the wheel bearings are going out?

the car is running a lot of camber front and rear, with a very aggressive wheel and tire combo, and has 131k miles.

thank you!

best,charles

[DrewQ45]

With car parked and wheels straight ahead, grab wheel with both hands at widest points from each other. Rock the wheel agressively and listen/feel intently for any movement or slight sound. Perform this at different angles on the tire. There shouldn't be any "give" or clicking when rocking. Alternately, you can jack up the car, take off the wheel and spin at the hub. It should move like thick honey and stop quickly, not sound dry.

[cheez80]

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With car parked and wheels straight ahead, grab wheel with both hands at widest points from each other. Rock the wheel agressively and listen/feel intently for any movement or slight sound. Perform this at different angles on the tire. There shouldn't be any "give" or clicking when rocking. Alternately, you can jack up the car, take off the wheel and spin at the hub. It should move like thick honey and stop quickly, not sound dry.

thank you for this -- i'll be trying that this afternoon.

[Q45tech]

Under my breath, I secretly laugh at owners with non standard wheels [sizes] and tires [weights] as they are the direct cause of faster wheel bearing failure.

The oem engineers always recalculate the force moments and can pinpoint bearing life pretty exactly. Except for those that submerge the wheels in water [especially brackish or salt].

[maxnix]

gentlemen,

the car is running a lot of camber front and rear, with a very aggressive wheel and tire combo, and has 131k miles.

Best to define in quantative terms (weight, degrees, size, ofsett, load capacity, rated strength, etc.) rather than subjective ("very aggressive") judgements. Numbers we understand. Qualitative judgements relying on adjectives are much more difficult.

[cheez80]

Under my breath, I secretly laugh at owners with non standard wheels [sizes] and tires [weights] as they are the direct cause of faster wheel bearing failure.

The oem engineers always recalculate the force moments and can pinpoint bearing life pretty exactly. Except for those that submerge the wheels in water [especially brackish or salt].

i much prefer my car the way it is now, but thanks for your thoughts.

Best to define in quantative terms (weight, degrees, size, ofsett, load capacity, rated strength, etc.) rather than subjective ("very aggressive") judgements. Numbers we understand. Qualitative judgements relying on adjectives are much more difficult.

18x10 ET5, with a 235/40/18, -3.7* camber; 18x11.5 ET2, with a 245/40/18, -7* camber.

thanks for all the constructive advice.

[maxnix]

Don't know what ET2 means, but those cambers mean you are running on side walls, have no tire life, and no traction in wet.

I am guessing no suspensin travel either? That also would kill bearings at those angles.

Difficult to imagine why one would want to cripple one's car so and assume such liability.

[bullittandy]

[QUOTE=Q45tech]Under my breath, I secretly laugh at owners with non standard wheels [sizes] and tires [weights] as they are the direct cause of faster wheel bearing failure.QUOTE]

This sounds like the kind of thing the mechanics at the local Goodyear Gemini place do.

To offer an answer to the question I've typically had wheel bearings "roar" when they start to fail. Maybe there's something inside the wheel or tire?

[cheez80]

Don't know what ET2 means, but those cambers mean you are running on side walls, have no tire life, and no traction in wet.

I am guessing no suspensin travel either? That also would kill bearings at those angles.

Difficult to imagine why one would want to cripple one's car so and assume such liability.

from wikipedia - "Wheels are usually stamped with their offset using the German prefix 'ET', meaning 'Einpresstiefe' or, literally, 'insertion depth'. An example would be "ET45" for a 45mm offset."

gentlemen, i think i've endured enough bashing on how unsafe my car is, but let's discuss some of these points.

yes, i am running on sidewalls, but tire life has been acceptable (even surprising me); i can get 8000 miles out of a pair of rear tires. the fronts have been flawless for 8000 miles thus far, but it looks like 15-20k miles won't be an issue. i used to get less miles (around 5k) running much less camber (-3*) out of falken rt615's when i had a 240sx.

it doesn't matter whether i have traction in the wet or not -- we only get 3 days of rain in los angeles every year.

sure, the car is lowered a lot, but the coilover system is adjustable from both the spring perch and the bottom shock mount, so suspension travel is a bit longer than you might think.

anyway, i checked to see if bearings were spinning smoothly, and they were, nor was there any play in the wheels when pulled. it seems that something else is the culprit -- does anybody have any ideas?

thanks again!

best,charles

[paranoidjack]

from wikipedia - "Wheels are usually stamped with their offset using the German prefix 'ET', meaning 'Einpresstiefe' or, literally, 'insertion depth'. An example would be "ET45" for a 45mm offset."

gentlemen, i think i've endured enough bashing on how unsafe my car is, but let's discuss some of these points.

yes, i am running on sidewalls, but tire life has been acceptable (even surprising me); i can get 8000 miles out of a pair of rear tires. the fronts have been flawless for 8000 miles thus far, but it looks like 15-20k miles won't be an issue. i used to get less miles (around 5k) running much less camber (-3*) out of falken rt615's when i had a 240sx.

it doesn't matter whether i have traction in the wet or not -- we only get 3 days of rain in los angeles every year.

sure, the car is lowered a lot, but the coilover system is adjustable from both the spring perch and the bottom shock mount, so suspension travel is a bit longer than you might think.

anyway, i checked to see if bearings were spinning smoothly, and they were, nor was there any play in the wheels when pulled. it seems that something else is the culprit -- does anybody have any ideas?

thanks again!

best,charles

Charles, I've heard similar clicking noises coming from my car. Sounds to me like it's coming from the steering rack, although I've never lost a drop and steering feels solid. Do you hear it when turning the wheel at a standstill?

[Q45tech]

Tires are designed to optimumly wear at a maximun of -0.7 to + 0.7 degrees camber!

The force on wheel bearing is designed to be balanced inner and outer to MATCH THE CAMBER.

EXCESS CAMBER shifts the force distribution towards the high camber side.

Trig and geometry help you calculate the shift in force from a square to a trapezoid.

Even a 1.0 degree negitive camber shifts the force by ~ 7% towards the rear portion of bearing.

Tires show excess camber because they are soft whereas bearings just wearout and get noisey before they seize and fail!

http://www.aboutschool.com/12trig.htm

"Twenty-six percent of 4-year college freshmen do not return for sophomore year; and forty-five percent of 2-year college freshmen do not return for sophomore year".................because the majority were unprepared in High School.

[cheez80]

Charles, I've heard similar clicking noises coming from my car. Sounds to me like it's coming from the steering rack, although I've never lost a drop and steering feels solid. Do you hear it when turning the wheel at a standstill?

jack (i'm inferring your name from your handle, so please correct me if i'm wrong),there's no clicking from the rack when turning at standstill. the noise only happens when i'm rolling and going straight. the tires i have on the car are quite loud, so sometimes troubleshooting noises is difficult.

To offer an answer to the question I've typically had wheel bearings "roar" when they start to fail. Maybe there's something inside the wheel or tire?

i think the roar in my car is all from the tires -- when i swapped back to oem wheels/tires for a few days i didn't have any roaring.

...

thank you, Q45tech, for the display of statistics and math lesson. can we perhaps return to the issue at hand?

best,charles

[Q45tech]

THE ISSUE AT HAND IS:"i've been thinking it might be the wheel bearings, but is there anything else i should eliminate before digging into those? is there a way to verify that the wheel bearings are going out?

the car is running a lot of camber front and rear, with a very aggressive wheel and tire combo, and has 131k miles."

[cheez80]

THE ISSUE AT HAND IS:"i've been thinking it might be the wheel bearings, but is there anything else i should eliminate before digging into those? is there a way to verify that the wheel bearings are going out?

the car is running a lot of camber front and rear, with a very aggressive wheel and tire combo, and has 131k miles."

thank you, Q45tech, for quoting me. it makes me feel warm inside that you care so much about how modified my car is.

[qship96]

After clicking on your supplied link showing a picture of your Q, NO WONDER you have wheel bearing issues and short tire life.........the suspension looks like it is taking the weight of 4 elephants sitting in the car...........guess you should expect to have diminished component life with that setup, never understood why people choose to make their car look broken down as it is not a good look whatsoever.

[cheez80]

After clicking on your supplied link showing a picture of your Q, NO WONDER you have wheel bearing issues and short tire life.........the suspension looks like it is taking the weight of 4 elephants sitting in the car...........guess you should expect to have diminished component life with that setup, never understood why people choose to make their car look broken down as it is not a good look whatsoever.

thank you for your input, but i do think the car is much more interesting now than it was stock. at least other people on the road have something to stare at on their morning commute. anyway, reduced component life on a modified car is something i'm very much aware of (i find the trade-off acceptable, but others may not).

still, i've eliminated the wheel bearings, steering rack, exhaust and catalytic converter heat shields so far. is there anything else i should check? could it possibly be brake caliper related? axle related? subframe related?

thanks again for the help (and the interesting discussion).

best,charles

[paranoidjack]

You take a beating well Charles.

Despite what the other kids say, as long as you use vista64, you're OK with me

[cheez80]

You take a beating well Charles.

Despite what the other kids say, as long as you use vista64, you're OK with me

haha, thanks, i appreciate it. i've been hanging out on mbworld lately, and the attitude is the exact same way.

[Q45tech]

When I first lower my Q with Eibach's back in 1994, I didn't understand the effect of excess camber and suspension wear. I was eating tires fast with only -1.7 degree negative front camber.After researching the problem and trying Stillen adjustable upper links I settled on shimming the mounts to returm camber to -0.7.I also bent my 3rd links twice from harshness of Stillen so it was a very expensive education.

Get camber perfect only to see it out of spec in 90 days was no fun.That's when I learned the shock towers have a natural tendency to bend inwards under stress...............then added adjustable strut tower brace to force them back apart.

Just remember I went thru all these things 15 years ago on my Q and still have managed to keeo it on the road today.

There is nothing new in the Q world and hasn't been for a long long time.

Luckily the Y33 is a much simpler front suspension design placing even more on the tires to set peak handling.

[burgy240]

charles, I think the problem is that you mentioned your wheel bearings in the title and most here will just blame you for ruining the car by lowering it so much etc, rather than offer help (although there are a few here that will). I bet when you find the culprit it is something other than the bearings. Yes the bearings will go sooner, but we know what that sound is and it isn't usually a ticking sound.

Have you been able to at least pinpoint the sounds origin in terms of one side or the other, front or back? are you sure it isn't from one of the other moving parts under the car etc etc. I only ask because so far the only confirmation I read is that you hear it with the window down while rolling past a curb???

[cheez80]

When I first lower my Q with Eibach's back in 1994, I didn't understand the effect of excess camber and suspension wear. I was eating tires fast with only -1.7 degree negative front camber.After researching the problem and trying Stillen adjustable upper links I settled on shimming the mounts to returm camber to -0.7.I also bent my 3rd links twice from harshness of Stillen so it was a very expensive education.

Q45tech, sorry to hear about your bad experiences.

Have you been able to at least pinpoint the sounds origin in terms of one side or the other, front or back? are you sure it isn't from one of the other moving parts under the car etc etc. I only ask because so far the only confirmation I read is that you hear it with the window down while rolling past a curb???

burgy, sounds like it's happening both sides, but i've been unable to pinpoint it further. i jacked the car up last evening to see if anything was noticeably loose underneath, but everything feels tight. i saw on another thread some cat with a maxima had a similar issue, but fixed it with some brake lube. i think i might take it to the dealer who worked on my car, since i have a feeling there's a correlation between the brake job i had and and clicking noises now (i didn't notice it until after i had the car serviced, and i roll with windows down all the time). i just hope they don't shaft me with diagnostic fees.

i'll keep everybody posted.

thanks!

charles

[DrewQ45]

i'm having some weird clicking noises coming from the wheel areas -- i can hear it when i'm driving past the curb with the windows down. the clicking noises increase and decrease with speed. i've been thinking it might be the wheel bearings

Took the time to read your post a little more carefully. It really doesn't sound like the issue could be your wheel bearings as at almost any speed, the rpms would produce a sound faster than clicking (unless barely rolling). It would be more of a roar as said by Q45Tech. I would try to pinpoint the location, and first bang on that wheel with a rubber mallet or sledge hammer. Could be something loose. Also check dust shield behind the caliper. May need to bend that away by hand as they sometimes make contact. Tighten everything.

[Q45tech]

Easy to put car on lift and run rears to speed from engine and listen next to each tire. The fronts can be brought up to speed with an old on car balancer drive unit. [truck tire spinner]

http://www.allstates.com/Hoffm...r.JPG

http://www.allstates.com/hunte...r.JPG

[cheez80]

good suggestions. thanks, all!

charles