WTF! SR Cooling Grrrr

Post by **BuudWeizErr** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 2:27 pm

I swear, the only problem I ever have with my engine is keeping it cool. It's plagued me from day 1, but I've usually been able to keep it under control.

Today, I ripped out my entire A/C system, including the A/C condensor. Put a new motor in my Flex-A-Lite fan, and flushed the cooling system. Then I bled the cooling system with 50/50 mix with the bleeder screw, then topped it off and ran it with no radiator cap for 15 minutes, topping off as necessary. I left it running for about a half hour and it stayed at 65C the whole time.

Went to the liquor store to pick up some adult beverages (about a 5 minute drive) and the temps got up to 105C (should be 70-80C).

WTF am I missing? I have Nismo thermostat, Nismo radiator cap, Koyo Radiator, 2800CFM fan (which is turning on).

It's running hotter now than it did yesterday with just the mechanical fan hooked up, no shroud. With no condensor in the way, it should be running the same if not cooler; not hotter.

WTF.

Post by **Onizuka** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 2:27 pm

Maybe its time for a new water/coolent pump? Thats all i can think of

Post by **BuudWeizErr** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 2:27 pm

I replaced the water pump when I put the motor in. About 9 months ago or 10K miles ago.

Post by **PalmerWMD** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 2:27 pm

Lets ask a few questions to narrow things down (from a non SR guy view point, so excuse if I dont recognize all brand names especially aftermarket ones, or what the OEM type set-up really is for an SR, or would be if we had them here, but cooling systems are so similiar...)

Back to my "old guy" basics:

-So your rad is newer?It is aftermarket, is it an actual upgrade with proven higher btu bleed off capability than stock, or just a after-market subsitute whose capacity is unsure?-I am not a huge friend of non OEM tstats, your engine will make most power in a given window of temps anyway, setting a tstat cooler than stock, is often not helpful, also many non OEM Tsats are often not as good as OEM, and finally some are easy to install wrong way around (with predicable results)Also many just plain fail ,even when new.- You mentioned a "flex a lite" fan? Do you have a non OEM fan, maybe even subitstuted an electrical for the a stock set-up?If so electrical fans rarely equal stock, regardless what the manufacturer says.

-Finally a 50/50 mix is too thick in CA, run 70% dist water, 1 bottle redline wetter water and refill with a slicate free coolant.

I suspect your problems lie in one or a combination of the above:

Summary: OEM fan, plus OEM tstat, plus OEM radiator = proper cooling.

OEM would be, what the SR comes with in JDM.Just my back to basics 2 cents.

Fred..

Post by **DriftS14** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 2:27 pm

Is there a possibility that your heater hoses are kinked? I've heard that causes flow problems.

Post by **soilwork240sx** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 2:27 pm

maybe there is a blockage somewhere? or rust buildup?

Post by **yellow_jacket** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 2:27 pm

The heater should never cause overheating problems. In many vehicles the manufacturers actually put a block off valve on the hose lines so that when the a/c is on no coolant will flow through the core.

I would try rebleeding the cooling system. It sounds like you have taken care of all of the easy stuff(rad. t-stat etc.) Honestly it sounds like you may have a very mildly blown head gasket. I've seen plenty of them blow like this and not even smoke.

One thing I would definetely check is the flow on the radiator. I have heard of others having problems with a KOYO. I would also pull my plugs and see how they look, run a compression test, and rebleed the system one last time.

Post by **BuudWeizErr** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 2:27 pm

But rust, blockage, heater hose problem, etc. wouldn't happen literally overnight, nor over the course of the week.

Before Sunday (DD8), I was totally fine. Fan locked up, killed my track day, and I got a new motor for the fan. From Monday to today, I have been running the mech fan without a shroud, and it was running cooler then than today.

Fred,

I appreciate your input, and I do trust your input. The problem is that JDM fan shrouds for an SR20 are in VERY short supply. I tried all week and no one either has one available or wants to sell theirs. Trust me, you are not the first to tell me to switch back to mech fan and shroud, if I could, I would have. I really dont' like this Fan. See my thread in 240 General about my experience with it. HOWEVER... The almost exact same setup worked great until Sunday. After that, it has been all downhill. I assumed that with the a/c condensor (which was never hooked up) out of the way, it would run at least the same, if not cooler.

My radiator is a Koyo, it's roughly twice the thickness as stock, I believe it is 2 core, maybe 3. Don't remember off the top of my head.

The thing that gets me is the fact that my car with it's "old" setup RARELY got above 80C during daily driving up until Sunday. Now I have a hard time keeping it below 90C. And I don't drive like a maniac everywhere, and it hasn't been scorchingly hot here lately either. I'd say Mid 80's, tops.

Post by **soilwork240sx** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 2:27 pm

yeah makes sense now. sounds like flow isnt strong enough

Post by **PalmerWMD** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 2:27 pm

Sounds like the replacement fan motor needs replacement.,.

Also dont forget to chekc on tstat, one of those things that can go bad from one day to another.

Fred...

Post by **BuudWeizErr** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 2:27 pm

I am going to check the heater hoses first, then maybe drain a little out and add just straight dis water.

Then I will check the tstat.

Post by **Cyberkreig** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 2:27 pm

buud, what about trying one of those 'cooling panels' i think ARC makes them in aluminum? i've seen them in carbon fiber.. Example: http://takakaira.com/asp/templ...60gCb

I wonder if you could use a similar item (read "sheet of aluminum") to make a fan shroud

Post by **ItzGenX** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 2:27 pm

I've never had a problem with my heat problems, ever. All I did was take off the bleeder screw then topped off the radiator til bleeder hole began to puke, then put the screw back in. I run mech fan with no shroud, FMIC, and the huge S14 a/c condensor, and stock USDM radiator with 160k miles on it etc. Perhaps the flow of your fan is not good enough, or the radiator is slightly clogged, I have no clue (just throwing stuff into the fan).

Post by **SpeedRacer1** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 2:27 pm

Hmmm, I run the Silvia radiator, clutch fan, no shroud, and no upgrades to my cooling system. At stock boost, on the hottest days in heavy traffic the highest my car has spiked at is 75 C, the car averages 40 or less in regular daily driving.

If everything else you have on your car was installed correctly, I can only think of a couple things:Perhaps your water pump is going bad? Another idea is that your ignition or mechanical timing could be off thus resulting in different burning mixtures that are hotter than normal or gasses that heat up the turbo to high temps (both have happened to me).

Post by **PalmerWMD** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 2:27 pm

SpeedRacer1 wrote:At stock boost, on the hottest days in heavy traffic the highest my car has spiked at is 75 C, the car averages 40 or less in regular daily driving.

Speedracer, consider:

At 40 C your ECU thinks you are in warm-up mode, and will reduce power (via richness and retardation), you may consider a different tstat as aminimum, as constant warm-up mode, has deleterious effects, beyond, simply reducing power.

Also at 40C coolant temp, your oil is likely still too cool as well, maybe 55C?

When your oil runs too cool, it wont achieve the hot running viscosity nesseccary for proper flowAlso its additives likely wont work properly, as they are all designed to function best at oil temps between 90 and 130C.

Fred..

Post by **SpeedRacer1** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 2:27 pm

Perhaps, but you have to remember that the SR can cool itself very quickly. I can start off at 70C and coast to the bottom of a hill and be below 40C at the bottom. My car runs fine with no retardation except on rare occasions, I can tell when the car does this only occurs about once a month. The ECU may hinder the car but according to the FSM, this only occurs if the car is running below 20C or above 80C. Dont get me wrong, I know my car runs cold but it is because its good at cooling itself, if I were to turn the car off and come back in 5 minutes the temp is usually higher but thats because the coolant isnt flowing anymore.

Edit: correction, my gauge starts reading at 50C, not 40C. So change anything I mentioned as 40 to 50.

Post by **BuudWeizErr** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 2:27 pm

Attention All:

I would like to apply for the biggest retard of the year award. I went out and adjusted a couple things today, drained a little mix and added straight water, blah blah blah. Still running hot.

So I take a look at the fan. It was pushing air. I must have gotten the polarity mixed up. The wires are blue and black, I have never seen black be anything other than ground, but in this case, it must be positive. Weird, but I have to wait for it to cool down and we shall see how it goes after this.

Post by **Onizuka** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 2:27 pm

lol buud, i hope thats it,

we all make stupid mistakes, i know i have:D

Post by **BuudWeizErr** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 2:27 pm

God I am so retarded. I did have the polarity reversed.

Just drove it about 10 miles and it never went above 70C.

yay.

Post by **yellow_jacket** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 2:27 pm

And I was just about to offer you a free fan shroud. All well.

Post by **ride4lame** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 2:27 pm

Haah, congrats. I do stupid ish like that all the time...

Post by **PalmerWMD** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 2:27 pm

I am SO glad it turned out well in the end!

It'd be a <shame> if an SR got ruined, coinsidering the expense and effort that goes into these swaps.

Fred..

Post by **UsedToOwn240SX** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 2:27 pm

LOL, don't call yourself a retard, Bud. It happens.

Post by **starfireS14** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 2:27 pm

I'm having similar problems my stock temp gauge was acting up since i had ka it would read really hot at idle and when i rolled it would drop. I had sr installed with electric fans I checkedat first it read at 3/4 which is ok but then it start going crazy. Im on highway at less than 3K rpms and its past the H. Im waiting on aftermarket gauge so hopefully i can get better reading of whats going on. I checked polarity it seems fine.

Post by **SCOOBYSHAG** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 2:27 pm

I was about to say damn because I have

Koyo Radiator2 12" electric fansOEM Tstat50/50 mix

and run just fine with no overheating probs.

Post by **BuudWeizErr** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 2:27 pm

I'm starting to get really pissed about this fan.

Today, I was driving and my temps shot up to 100C. At this point, I'm starting to get really pissed, so I pulled into an AM/PM and hit a bump pulling into the driveway, and immediately after that bump, the temps did a nosedive; apparently the fan stopped turning and the bump got it spinning again.

Anyways, I'm just waiting till i can get my hands on a shroud, then I'm getting rid of this crap.

Post by **SCOOBYSHAG** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 2:27 pm

are you sure the fans are wired to a good power source...maybe the power wire or ground wire is loose for the fans?

Post by **BuudWeizErr** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 2:27 pm

It might be, but I know I did a good wiring job yesterday, all my solder points are good and strong, maybe one of them came loose off the relay, but I doubt it.

Post by **yellow_jacket** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 2:27 pm

I was serious, if you want my shroud just hit me up. It is in very good shape except for one little crack at the top of it. It is from a redtop S13.

Post by **BuudWeizErr** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 2:27 pm

yellow_jacket wrote:I was serious, if you want my shroud just hit me up. It is in very good shape except for one little crack at the top of it. It is from a redtop S13.

I definitely want it. I sent you an email, let me know.

WTF! SR Cooling Grrrr

WTF! SR Cooling Grrrr

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