Would Turbonetics single turbo kit damage engine in the long run ?

[tavo10]

Hello:

Well Im new in this forum, and to the whole tunning of cars. I bought a g35 coupe 3 weeks ago, and the guy had installed a single turbo kit from turbonetics, also a high power exhaust from HKS among other mods. Now i just have 2 major questions hopeing some one has the anwers. Can turbos damage engines in the long run ? and why is it that when i boost i get my service soon light led on? the tubo has about 10K miles as weel as the exhaust. Moving on is it safe to be boosting 9psi can i go higher without damaging my car or adding more parts? THKS to everyone and i hope some one here can guide me..

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Modified by tavo10 at 12:15 PM 8/15/2009

[Beancooker]

Yes, in your car, since the engine wasn't designed for forced induction, it can shorten the lifespan. If you are running a lot of boost, it will shorten the life considerably.

What all mods does the car have? Injectors? Fuel rails? ECU? Meth injection?

Your CEL probably comes on because of a bad tune. What is the OBD2 code that is thrown?

I'm guessing that the code is for bank 1 and 2 running lean. You can increase the airflow to the engine, and the stock ECU can add a little more fuel, but in order to gain a lot more HP, but you have to add enough fuel to balance out the air. The stock injectors will do all right, depending on your tune, and how much boost you are running.

Too much boost, not enough fuel, you will run lean.

There are multiple reasons that you could be throwing a code. If the tune didn't retard the timing and the ECU still controls that, you are most likely getting spark knock. Please tell me that you are running the highest octane fuel you can find.

9 PSI is a lot of boost for an engine with 10.5:1 compression. If you turn up the boost, without doing some modifications, your engine will not last. Most people who want to see their car live long, will top out the boost on a stock VQ35 at 6-8 PSI.

My best recommendation is to find a good tuner, someone who has tuned a VQ with a turbo, and have them tune it.

What system are you using for tuning? Utech? Greddy? Cobb?

Is it a piggyback on your ECU, a stand alone unit, or a re-flash?

Are you recirculating the compressed air with a BPV, or is it a vent to atmosphere BOV?

Are you using a MAF, or a MAP?

If using the stock MAF, can it read/understand the amount of air that it is receiving?

If you have a stand alone ECU, your tuning possibilities are near endless. If you have a piggyback, your options of tuning are more limited, and if you have a re-flash (Cobb Accessport/Bully Dog) your options are severely limited.

As far as a Cobb, I know that you can have a tuner build you a map specifically for a Subaru. Then you re-flash that to your ECU. I am not sure if that is an option for a Nissan ECU.

[superchargedg]

Ive got over 57,000 miles with boost and my engine is still in perfect internal shape.I run a service department and ive had a leakdown and compression test a few times and everything is still perfect.It all depend on the tune and tuner who does it and if you beat on the car all the time.

[pfarmer]

Ive got over 57,000 miles with boost and my engine is still in perfect internal shape.I run a service department and ive had a leakdown and compression test a few times and everything is still perfect.It all depend on the tune and tuner who does it and if you beat on the car all the time.

How are your bearings?

Perry

[Beancooker]

Ive got over 57,000 miles with boost and my engine is still in perfect internal shape.I run a service department and ive had a leakdown and compression test a few times and everything is still perfect.It all depend on the tune and tuner who does it and if you beat on the car all the time.

I wasn't saying it can't be done. Look at the issues that he is having. That would indicate most likely a bad tune.

You have 57k miles on boost, but it has shortened the overall life of the engine. Yes, you have a good tune, and a proper turbo setup, but as compared to the same engine run N/A it's whole life, on average, a boosted stock engine won't last as long.

I'm not bashing your car at all. Nor am I trying to be pessimistic about boosting a VQ. I'm happy to see it done. But I would like to see him get a proper tune, and get these issues worked out before something bad happens.

We had a member boost his VQ, and on his way to get a part (colder plugs, wideband, I can't remember) his engine's timing wasn't retarded enough, had some detonation issues, and boom went the engine.

I don't want to see that happen again.

[tavo10]

Well all i know is that im using a single turbo from turbonetics 60-1 and is designed to run with a stock engine. as far as fuel type, yes I always pump V-Power from Shell and use nothing but full syntetic oil. other mods included with the vehicle: High Power Dual exhaust system from HKS, Brembo brakes, lowering springs and a device called turbo timer, again im new at these so please dont get anoyed ! by my lack of knowledge. The car seems to run great, but is like i say as soon as i boost it i get that service soon light, so I disconect the battery and i wont see it until i boost again; also that thin layer of smoke is worrying me, but people tell me is normal sometimes to see smoke after a boost, dont really know.

Here are some images of what the car has. Hope it helps you.

[Beancooker]

You need to contact the previous owner, and find out how/what was used to tune the car.

[WDRacing]

I suggest reading Maximum Boost by Corky Bell.

Like Beanor said, we're not going to be able to help you even a little bit until we know exactly what has been done to the motor as far as fuel and timing control are concerned.

Find out these things: What size injectors do you have? What is controlling the injectors? By that I mean do you have a ECU tune or some type of piggy back controller. Perhaps the car just has a FMU, which raises fuel pressure when boost comes on instead of needing larger injectors. What is controlling your timing?

I'd honestly say your best bet is to take the car to a shop and have them tell you whats what and confirm that the car is tuned and driveable.

Running lean or with uncontrolled timing can easily snap piston ring lands through a process called detonation. That's when the fuel and air mixture get so hot that it ignites prior to the spark event. So when the piston is still coming to the top, the explosion has already happened and it's trying to push the piston back down to early. Obviously something has to give...

Another tip is to change your oil often. No more then 3K max on a boosted car. I could go into why, but it's probably a little over your head. So you're going to have to trust me

Welcome to Nico, we'll have your car running like a raped ape in no time

WD

[tavo10]

Thank you man, i will look into this, might call previous owner today for a complete tutorial about the car hahahaha ill get back to you after words.

[tavo10]

I suggest reading Maximum Boost by Corky Bell.

Like Beanor said, we're not going to be able to help you even a little bit until we know exactly what has been done to the motor as far as fuel and timing control are concerned.

Find out these things: What size injectors do you have? What is controlling the injectors? By that I mean do you have a ECU tune or some type of piggy back controller. Perhaps the car just has a FMU, which raises fuel pressure when boost comes on instead of needing larger injectors. What is controlling your timing?

I'd honestly say your best bet is to take the car to a shop and have them tell you whats what and confirm that the car is tuned and driveable.

Running lean or with uncontrolled timing can easily snap piston ring lands through a process called detonation. That's when the fuel and air mixture get so hot that it ignites prior to the spark event. So when the piston is still coming to the top, the explosion has already happened and it's trying to push the piston back down to early. Obviously something has to give...

Another tip is to change your oil often. No more then 3K max on a boosted car. I could go into why, but it's probably a little over your head. So you're going to have to trust me

Welcome to Nico, we'll have your car running like a raped ape in no time

WD

Is this the information you needed?

Turbo: Turbonetics 60-1 Ball Bearing Turbo

Intercooler: Spearco Large W.A.V.E. Technology Core with Cast End Tanks

Fuel Management: Turbonetics Tuned Upgraded ECU with Larger Injectors

Air Filter: Turbonetics AF-1

Wastegate: Turbonetics Evolution

Blow Off Valve: Turbonetics Raptor with Polished Discharge Horn

Intercooler Piping: Black Chrome Mendrel Bent Aluminum

Exhaust Pipes: Polished Mandrel Bent Stainless Steel with V-band Connection Between All the Pipes

Downpipe: 3.0" Polished Mandrel Bent Stainless Steel

The ECU was modified by Turbonetics to run with this kit, stock injectors replaced by larger ones ( dont know the size ) and also the gas pump was replaced by one provided by Turbonetics kit.

so, what do u think?

[Beancooker]

I would say that the weak point in the system is the ECU. Take a look at some stand alone ECU's, like the AEM EMU. With an ECU like the AEM EMU, you could start off with a stock map for the car, which will load all the parameters for the car to run, like idle, instruments, lights, etc...

Then your tuner could modify the stock map to calculate boost, A/F ratios, timing, injector duty cycles, etc...

It's not a cheap option, but it would get the car running in top shape, and be highly tunable.

Personally, I would ditch the blow off valve for a bypass valve. You will lose the awful "whoosh" noise every time you let off the gas, won't have to worry (as much) about boost leak and have less chance of compressor surge.

[tavo10]

THANKS man, i know im giving very little or no material to explain, but i truly appreciate your good intentions of help. As far as replacing ECU im not sure just read the turbonetics kit manual and it seem that everything has been taken care of, im just afraid that replacing parts might make it worse, all the mods performed to parts were indicated and guided by the manual.

Now this is probably a stupid question but i dont know the answer, does the turbo usally stays hot for more than 2 hours after the car has been parked???? I mean i can park my car for about 2 hours open the hood and touch the Turbo, and that sucker would still feel kindda hot.

So the car runs great, but just does issues about the service light, smoke after a boost, and this new topic well i guess im just in the learning process, THKS Everyone for all your help

[Beancooker]

Yes, the turbo will stay wicked hot for quite a while. It isn't unheard of for a turbo to run between 800º-1500º F depending on the engine, turbo and tune.

You have to remember it is taking extremely hot exhaust gas and using that so spin the turbine. The incoming air is compressed and used in combustion, which makes even hotter exhaust gas... and the circle continues.

[WDRacing]

I would say that the weak point in the system is the ECU. Take a look at some stand alone ECU's, like the AEM EMU. With an ECU like the AEM EMU, you could start off with a stock map for the car, which will load all the parameters for the car to run, like idle, instruments, lights, etc...

Then your tuner could modify the stock map to calculate boost, A/F ratios, timing, injector duty cycles, etc...

It's not a cheap option, but it would get the car running in top shape, and be highly tunable.

Personally, I would ditch the blow off valve for a bypass valve. You will lose the awful "whoosh" noise every time you let off the gas, won't have to worry (as much) about boost leak and have less chance of compressor surge.

I don't see any reason to switch to a standalone. Overly complicated for a noob and entirely unneeded for a daily driver.

His issue with the CEL is a sensor that's bad, he needs to pull the codes and look for vac leaks.

Bypass valve FTW. Not because they prevent compressor surge any better then the standard BOV, but because the MAF has measured that air and added fuel for it, when you vent to the atmosphere it creates an overly rich condition and could lead to stalling and generally worse conditions over all, and then there's the leak factor.

The smoke from the turbo is 99% because of the rear oil seal in the turbine housing, that's the hot part that connects to the exhaust. Oil will seep past this seal if the drain isn't optimal. Look under the car or however you have to to insure that the drain line coming from the bottom of the turbo has no kinks. If you could get us a picture of the routing of the line and where it's mounted on the drip pan we might be able to tell you for sure if it's good to go or not.

As rpm increases so does oil pressure, the turbo oil drain is gravity only. If the oil can't drain out fast enough, it sits in the center cartridge and will eventually leak into the exhaust and smoke. That's why the drain line needs to be short, straight and mounted in the correct place on the oil pan itself.

The turbonetics ecu is probably fine, if anything it will be conservative. Almost all generic tunes retard to much timing and run slightly richer then they should. But that's all for safety.

WD

[tavo10]

I don't see any reason to switch to a standalone. Overly complicated for a noob and entirely unneeded for a daily driver.

His issue with the CEL is a sensor that's bad, he needs to pull the codes and look for vac leaks.

Bypass valve FTW. Not because they prevent compressor surge any better then the standard BOV, but because the MAF has measured that air and added fuel for it, when you vent to the atmosphere it creates an overly rich condition and could lead to stalling and generally worse conditions over all, and then there's the leak factor.

The smoke from the turbo is 99% because of the rear oil seal in the turbine housing, that's the hot part that connects to the exhaust. Oil will seep past this seal if the drain isn't optimal. Look under the car or however you have to to insure that the drain line coming from the bottom of the turbo has no kinks. If you could get us a picture of the routing of the line and where it's mounted on the drip pan we might be able to tell you for sure if it's good to go or not.

As rpm increases so does oil pressure, the turbo oil drain is gravity only. If the oil can't drain out fast enough, it sits in the center cartridge and will eventually leak into the exhaust and smoke. That's why the drain line needs to be short, straight and mounted in the correct place on the oil pan itself.

The turbonetics ecu is probably fine, if anything it will be conservative. Almost all generic tunes retard to much timing and run slightly richer then they should. But that's all for safety.

WD

Sounds good ill get pictures from the bottom of the car as detailed as possible, and ill get back at yall, again THKS everyone for all your help.

[WDRacing]

No need to say thanks...it's common knowledge that we friggin rock