wont crank over. need suggestions.... please

[sdtouge]

just to get this out of the way! the type of voltmeter/continuity tester tool i have been using is the really basic one where you hook one end up to a ground, then the other up to something ( apositive current spot) and it will light up if there is continuity... or vice versa.

so when i go to crank over my engine, the starter is not turning. i have power inside, my starter relay is clicking, my battery pulls 13 volts, and when i touch the positive spot on the starter, it lights up. negaitve will light up no matter what beasue its grounded to the engine.

i haad to get the starter from a guy in florida becasue my motorset didnt have one. he said he tested it ( i talked to him today) and is 100 % posisive it was working when he shiped it out. that does not mean that i couldnt have droped it or it could have been damaged in shiping though.

so basically i am just looking for any ideas. i am was going to pull my starter today to jump test that mofo, but i decided to wait until i heard from you guys.

also, the positive is on ther good, and i beleive the negative is as well, but it doesnt pop into place like the other points on the harness do. but when i go to test out the third little pin on the starter, it doesnt light up (no contuity), it does light up when i use that pin for a ground, because of it being grounded to the chassy. so i thinhk that something is wrong because i beleive that shoudl be lighting up (have continuity).

the third one i am talking about is the one that goes fro the same spot as the ground and positive, but goes to that seperate little motor attached to the starter.

wooh. sorry for the long post, i juust wanted to try to cover everything first...

thanks alotmatt

if you want feel free to aim me at sdtouge

[pulsar gtr]

Hi,

Ok, the third little wire (black with white stripe) on the starter that you are talking about will only cause your tester light to light up if you get some one to hold the ignition key to the cranking position as well as make sure your clutch is pressed all the way to deactive the safety neutral switch.as long as your ignition is in the cranking position, the tester light will continue to stay on.

There are few things you want to check.1) to make sure your starter is 100% good, easy way but you have to make sure 100% that your car is in neutral as it can be dangerous, also when you do this procedure, make sure you stand on the passenger fender side, not infront of the car.Ater making sure your car is in neutral, get a jumper wire or a metal screw driver. Jump the big nut on the starter that has the big wire from the battery (12mm nut) to the third wire (black with white stripe) on the starter that has a black clip on it, it is a smaller wire compare to the wire on the 12mm nut. when you jump the bigger wire to the small wire the car should crank. If it doesn't crank your starter is dead.

If it does crank, you have to verify that your third wire with the black clip(black with white stripe) gets 12Vs when the ignition is in the cranking position, if not, inspect your fuses, neutral safety switch (I believe it is located on the clutch pedal), inspect the relays of both the starter and teh neutral safety switch.

If you aren't comfortable doing step one, just remove the starter out, get yourself jumper wires, hook the ground to the shell of the starter (a good location will be where the bolts go to hold the starter to the transmission), the positive wire, hook it up to the 12mm nut that usually holds the thick wire when the starter was in the car, hold the starter tight and keep your fingers away from the gear inside of the starter, get yourself a jumper wire and jump it from the 12mm nut on the starter to the pin that had the black/white wire hooked on to it. the starter should turn, if it doesn't your starter is dead.

You can refer to the FSM on troubleshooting the starter circuitry.Good luck,

Rafi

Modified by pulsar gtr at 8:36 PM 4/5/2005

Modified by pulsar gtr at 8:37 PM 4/5/2005
Modified by pulsar gtr at 8:38 PM 4/5/2005

[sdtouge]

hey rafi thanks alot.

my sister kept turning the car to the cranking position, and i still had no light.

the methoud sounded a little confusing so let me verify this:make shure car is in nutral (plus my car is still on jack stands)put the posistive fromth jumper cables around the positive spot on starter (12 mm nut) then the negative part of the jump starter on the negaitve termianl on the starter, were that little rubber peice bolts on to. then have a screw driver connecting the 3rd pin and the positive ones?

also, i found my sohc starter lying on my sideyard area, so i grabbed it. the singel cam for the gound has a plug on both sides, while the ca18 has a little pin that you slide sothing on too.

i dont think i have the ground on correctly to the starter so i am going to make a custom ground for it (just connect it to the little pin (for the ground) and splice that into the ground that was for the starter on the sohc)

let me know what you think of that, as i try to find troubleshooting the starter in the fsm.

also, rafi do you have aim?

[sdtouge]

ok its cranking over now, just not starting hmm

[pulsar gtr]

When you sister had the ignition in the cranking position, did she also had the clutch pedal pressed all the way to the floor? If so and you still didn't get the tester light to come on, check the starter wiring in the fsm, it will show you which and where the components/wiring that you need to check.

What exactly did you do so the car won't turn over, did you only replace the starter and the problem came up?My AIM is "pulsargtr" I believe, but I don't use it much, I use msn, [email protected]

Good luck,

PULSAR GTRRafi

Modified by pulsar gtr at 9:59 AM 4/6/2005
Modified by pulsar gtr at 10:01 AM 4/6/2005

[sdtouge]

i just held the grounbsd toi the starter on why she did it, the ka and ca have completetly different grounds for there starters, the ka is a pulg on both sides, the alot of the other parts of the harness, and you all kno whow the ca's one ground is. then it just crank over... i was soooo happy.

now it will still crank, and i am getting fuel becuase i can smell it, and i bleeive the lines are on correctly because i can smell fuel on te sparkplugs.

i cant smell any exhaust, and i didnt see spark when i checked for it, but i am going o check again using the #4 spark plug because i beleive it will be easiest to get it to reach to frame....

alsol, i pulled codes from the ecu and got code 55 so all the wiring and stuff i blevie to be fine.

[sdtouge]

the ignitor is not getting any power but the actual ingitor is not bad....

any ideas?

[sdtouge]

ya it runs!!!!!

hell ya!

[sdtouge]

ok. i got my starter situation figured out, the ca and ka starters use totally different plugs for the positive (it wasnt the negative afterall lol) just a little splicing and thats all that is reqquired.

my idle is horible, and i cant get to to idle better. with the idle adjustment thing all the way counterclockwise (idle higher), i wa turning it with my hand it was so loose. and the cas was out of adjustment too. when i advanced it it would stuble and almost stall, i would have it completely retarded via the cas and it would start to go better.

i thought that my maf could have gotten bad over the three months that it had been sitting, so i unplugged it and the car died, so the maf is good.

there is one thing i can think off though, wheni put in the new water pump on, i had to remove the timing belt, and it is very possible that i skiped a tooth or something of that matter when putting it back on.

i read about somebody else on here having this similar problem, and also runnignout of adjustment onn the cas.

im just rying to get some opinions on if anybody thinks this could be the case, im gonna start on this tommorow if i dont get any objections.

thanksmatt

i think rafi is the only one that responds to my posts lol.

also, i tried to use this ghette timing gun,m but i couldnt get it to work, and i though possibly the #1 cylinder wasnt firing, but after taking it out, its pretty black so i know its firing maybe my spark plug was fualty or something.

[NeedCAforS13]

also, i tried to use this ghette timing gun,m but i couldnt get it to work, and i though possibly the #1 cylinder wasnt firing, but after taking it out, its pretty black so i know its firing maybe my spark plug was fualty or something.

how did you run the timing wire for the gun? Usually you loop it around the first spark plug wire, but since the CA uses a coil on plug system you can't do it that way... There are two ways to check timing. I prefer the first, but some people think the second works fine too.

method 1:get a regular spark plug wire (from your KA or just one laying around). Remove the first coilpack and attach the spark plug wire to the bottom of it with duct tape, electrical tape, etc... Plug the spark plug wire onto the spark plug, and the coil pack into the harness. The car should run normally, but now you have a true wire to use with the timing gun.

method 2:use the loop of wire on the back of the coilpack harness. There should be a small wire loop near the 4th coil, use that as your signal wire for the timing gun. This method doesn't work with all guns, and I don't belive it sets accurate timing. Others disagree...

Sean

[NeedCAforS13]

there is one thing i can think off though, wheni put in the new water pump on, i had to remove the timing belt, and it is very possible that i skiped a tooth or something of that matter when putting it back on.

thats a very real possibility, and that could result in the running problems you are experiencing. Its an easy enough thing to check out. Count the number of notches between the marks and check the FSM to make sure you have proper spacing

Sean

[sdtouge]

i used moethod number one. then it want working so i swtched the plugs for the terminals on the battery, still no luck. its all good though, im just gonna redo the timing belt.

thanks for the sufggestions/comments and keep them coming!

[pulsar gtr]

Definitely check your timing belt, if your CAS is almost out of alignement, meaning, you adjustment on it is maxed, usually it is a sign of the timing belt being of couple teeth.

Good luck,PULSAR GTRRafi

[sdtouge]

okm timing belkt didnt help, it turns out that the cam gears make 2 rotations for the cranks 1. kinda of a waste of time but thats what troubleshhoting is i guess.

today i picked up a 3 wire o2 sensor, and my old one wasnt even wired up to the correct plug lol so im hoping for this to make it work but i have heard different opinions on this.

if anyobdy has anyother suggestions...

[float_6969]

I had horrible idle problem and could barely keep the car running also. I was off ONE tooth on the timing belt. I would HIGHLY recomend reinstalling the timing belt FOLLOWING THE FSM INSTRUCTIONS! It can be a pain to get it to all line up right, but I really think this is a timing belt problem.

[sdtouge]

i just went back and did it, i kinda follwed the ffsm,

i just lined to crank pulley to tdc, then i lined up the cams gear to tdc, slid the timing belt on and tightened it.if my o2 sensor doesnt do anything im gonna go buy an oem timing belt and line it up that way possibly.

[sdtouge]

ok, when i give it gas until warm up, it wont idle. when its a NOT it will idle fine. no cold start, i read that alot though, i know alot of people here dont have cold start. i can live with out it.

i have another problem though. when i give it gas, it wont rev up, maybe 1300 rpm is the most it will go. i tried to drive it down the street, i noticed something was wrong, so i turned around, i couldnt make it up my hill. i had to get my jeep and push my car with it back into my garage.

another thing, i dont have power brakes, i dont know why. i dont have power steering either but it might be because of the screw that you put in, the high pressure one, it has the hole in it, im not sure if thats aligned properly.

im plannign on cleaning out the maf, i dont think that will help but if it wont hurt im game.

so again, if anyone has had this happen or has a suggestion PLEASE let me know. i need to get my car back on the road again.thanksmatt

[sdtouge]

welding hank suggested i switch the geul lines just to be shure, and it wouldnt crank over when i switched them the oppisite way than i had them before, so there on right.

still searching the fsm if anyone has anysuggestions fell free...