won't start after 5 speed swap need help

[Justin35ll]

Just got done doing a 5 speed swap on a 97 maxima. I am using the automatic starter if that matters..First time I cranked it it did a loud backfire.Second crank it started and ran for about 5 seconds then shut off.Now it just cranks and doesn't fire up or anything.

I can smell fuel

The only thing I could think of is maybe it has something to do with that crank sensor on the front of the engine that reads the flywheel. Thinking maybe it threw off the timing with the manual flywheel on there??

HALPPP

[Justin35ll]

anyone? I'm f***in pissed I can't figure this out. I've tried starting with both the automatic and the manual ecu. I've scanned both, had a couple codes on the automatic one for the missing sensors.Manual one had no codes.

I've pretty much killed 2 batteries now cranking this engine and nothing.

The only logical thing I could think of is the crank signal, but I pulled the sensor out and all the teeth are there for it to read so WTF

I've checked for voltage at the coil plugs and had 12v to them.The car was running fine 3 days ago before I swapped it so it has the correct fuel pressure

[tigersharkdude]

have you checked "over there" yet

[Justin35ll]

what. i'm looking for serious answers

[Justin35ll]

sent you an email just now

[maxhopper]

.

If I ever see that crap here again you're gone.

Edit: Never mind, this has already been discussed with you.

[maxhopper]

Just got done doing a 5 speed swap on a 97 maxima. I am using the automatic starter if that matters..First time I cranked it it did a loud backfire.Second crank it started and ran for about 5 seconds then shut off.Now it just cranks and doesn't fire up or anything.

I can smell fuel

The only thing I could think of is maybe it has something to do with that crank sensor on the front of the engine that reads the flywheel. Thinking maybe it threw off the timing with the manual flywheel on there??

HALPPP

I'm pretty sure the crank sensor (near the radiator) for the manual is different. You can call a dealership's parts department and check for sure.

[Justin35ll]

I hope so.. I will find out tomorrow. thanks

[maxhopper]

Actually I was thinking of the 3.5 swap with the crank sensor. Now that I'm not at work and had a minute to look over the write up, it doesn't say anything about needing a new crank sensor, but it does say to use the 5spd starter.

Is this the same write up you used? The only thing that really stands out is the park/neutral bypass (as far as wiring goes).

[Justin35ll]

yeah that's the write up I followed that's why I wasn't sure either. I don't get it.. and I wired up the neutral safety switch

And I am using the automatic starter, but honestly I don't think it matters since the auto one is cranking the engine over fine.

[maxhopper]

Check for debris on the crank sensor? Everything grounded really well? I chased a grounding issue for months after dropping a new motor and trans in my Max.

[Justin35ll]

Yeah pulled the sensor out and cleaned it. Grounding was another thing that popped to mind. The only thing I can think of thats not mounted is a bracket that holds a connector near the driver side upper trans mount. Those brackets that hold the connectors aren't grounds though are they?

[maxhopper]

I know for sure on the AT there is a small grounding wire that goes to the end of the case by the driver's side front wheel. I would definitely double/triple check all the wiring and connectors. I'd also use dielectric grease on everything.

[Justin35ll]

I know the ground wire you are talking about. I dont have it hooked up it was attached to one of those brackets holding a couple connectors on the auto trans. Now that the bracket is gone along with the auto trans I wasn't sure what to do with it.

[AZhitman]

It HAS to go to the chassis.

A bracket that holds sensors won't be well-grounded.

Although, this sounds a lot more like timing-related stuff the more I read...

[Justin35ll]

I understand it needs to go to the chasis. What I mean is that The ground wire IS attatched to the chasis. The other side that was connected to the connectors for the auto trans is what's not hooked up anymore as there is no spot for it on the manual trans.

It sounds like timing to me too though. Or something that controls when the spark plugs to fire.

I thought maybe it was a bad ecu, but I tried both the auto and the manual ecu's.

I did connect the battery terminals up backwards by accident with the cables when the battery was outside the car, but I'm pretty sure all it did was blow out the 120amp battery fuse. I've checked all the other main fuses under the hood, and the ones under the dash too.

[maxhopper]

I did connect the battery terminals up backwards by accident with the cables when the battery was outside the car, but I'm pretty sure all it did was blow out the 120amp battery fuse. I've checked all the other main fuses under the hood, and the ones under the dash too.

Was this something that just happened, or did this happen a long time ago?

[AZhitman]

That could kill the ECU... Fuse is irrelevant.

[Justin35ll]

yeah i figured it could kill the ecu, but I had the automatic one in at the time when I hooked up the cables backwards.

[Justin35ll]

I took a look at the stock flex plate for the automatic. There are 2 holes drilled into the ring gear on the left side in the picture.Maybe that is the section that the crank position sensor reads at a certain time (TDC cylinder 1?)

So I might have to pull the trans out again and move the flywheel. I'm not worried about dropping the trans again that's not the problem it's just going to be a PITA because I used thread locker on all the fly wheel bolts. And one of the bolts is kinda stripped out so maybe I should go back and heli coil the hole anyway..

I didn't really take my time aligning the new flywheel on because there is 8 holes for the fly wheel bolts plus 1 smaller hole that was on the crank and the flywheel. I aligned those 2 smaller holes and figured that's where it was meant to be placed.

[maxhopper]

My thought is that something is fried electrically or perhaps the ignition cut off (from the alarm) has been triggered by switching ECU's.

[Justin35ll]

Yeah that's a good thought. How would I go about reseting the ignition on if that is a function of the car? I've swapped the ecu about 10 times now and the battery has been disconnected about 10 times tooI found a thread on maxima.org of a guy who had the identical problem. Never saw a post of what resolved the issue though.

It can't be the flywheel because I know for sure I put it on with the index holes aligned for the crank and the flywheel. I pulled out the POS and I'm going to make sure none of the teeth are chipped or missing on the flywheel, but I don't think so.

I'm lost and don't know what to do

[loystock]

This is an interesting topic so here's my two cents

I'm assuming that the ECM is not fried and that the engine was running before the engine swap.

At this point in time, your engine is flooded after multiple start attempts. You need to find a way to purge the fuel from the cylinders (crank the engine with Fuel Pump Fuse removed, or crank engine while accelerator is fully depressed and/or remove the spark plugs and let the fuel evaporate overnight).

The car started initially then stalled. So that mean the Starting Circuit is OK (Theft Warning Relay (signal from BCM) and Inhibitor Relay (signal from 'new' clutch sw.) are working. But the fact that it stalled could be due to:-crankshaft position sensor (which you said is OK).-Idle Air Control Valve and related circuit and even the throttle body-an EVAP purge valve that is tuck open which flooded the engine-bad fuel (may have water or contamination due to corrosion, etc. Application of Iso Heet may correct the water problem but not contamination. Good fuel must be clear an not yelowish, sign of corrosion in fuel tank).-vacuum leaks, including the PCV system-check the condition of the grounding point on the engine adjacent to the intake manifold-you may also have a bad connection on the main engine harness (wiggle the harness while attempting to start the engine.

I don't know if it's going to make a difference but the engine swap requires a 5-speed starter.

Better have the ECM scanned for current fault codes

[Justin35ll]

Loy, how come the 5speed swap requires the 5 speed starter? I'll swap it if it is necesary, but all I see it as is a mechanical connection from the starter wheel to the flywheel to get the engine spinning in order for it to start.

It's has never grinded the gears and not spun the engine.

Otherwise the car came to my house in perfect running condition so I'll take it as fuel most likely isn't the problem here.

As for the ground adjacent to the intake manifold, not sure which one you're talking about. I have the main ground wire attached PLUS I added a 4gauge wire ground directly from the neg terminal to the bellhousing.

Engine flooded is possible now that I have cranked it excessivly. I did pull the fuel pump fuse though every now and then because I knew there would already be fuel in the cylinders.

I'll check for any bad connections.

Is there anything I'm supposed to do with the left over connectors that were used for the auto trans? There about 4 of them iirc.

[loystock]

Frankly, I don't know if the 5-speed starter will make a difference since you are cranking normally and there is no grinding.

You need to identify the excess connector so we can relate that to the wiring diagram. Here's the link to the 97 Maxima FSM:

http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM/maxima/1997/EL.pdf

[Justin35ll]

Not sure exactly, but I don't think they are relatively important especially with the 5 speed ecu in there.

I think it was a connector for a torque convertor pressure switch, the autotrans selector switch, maybe some type of speed sensor I'm not sure what the others were.

[birdman11]

This is an interesting topic so here's my two cents

I'm assuming that the ECM is not fried and that the engine was running before the engine swap.

At this point in time, your engine is flooded after multiple start attempts. You need to find a way to purge the fuel from the cylinders (crank the engine with Fuel Pump Fuse removed, or crank engine while accelerator is fully depressed and/or remove the spark plugs and let the fuel evaporate overnight).

The car started initially then stalled. So that mean the Starting Circuit is OK (Theft Warning Relay (signal from BCM) and Inhibitor Relay (signal from 'new' clutch sw.) are working. But the fact that it stalled could be due to:-crankshaft position sensor (which you said is OK).-Idle Air Control Valve and related circuit and even the throttle body-an EVAP purge valve that is tuck open which flooded the engine-bad fuel (may have water or contamination due to corrosion, etc. Application of Iso Heet may correct the water problem but not contamination. Good fuel must be clear an not yelowish, sign of corrosion in fuel tank).-vacuum leaks, including the PCV system-check the condition of the grounding point on the engine adjacent to the intake manifold-you may also have a bad connection on the main engine harness (wiggle the harness while attempting to start the engine.

I don't know if it's going to make a difference but the engine swap requires a 5-speed starter.

Better have the ECM scanned for current fault codes

hey Loy this is my car jusin is talkin about, the car ran fine when i brought it to him. the main reason we did this swap was because the auto trans was done. after reading your post i remembered my car has thrown codes in the past for a leak in the evap canister, idk if that affects anythin or not, but other than that the car was in perfect runnin order

[loystock]

Yes, that EVAP leak can fill the cylinder with fuel vapors and cause starting and stalling issues.

I know the fuel supply line is probably good but there is no harm in checking the actual fuel pressure delivery from the pump and filter. You need to connect a Fuel Pressure Gauge between the fuel filter and the fuel rail. With Ignition ON, engine OFF, the fuel pump should run for @ 5 secs and deliver @ 43PSI (34 PSI if engine is running). Note that the pump will automatically shutdown after 5 secs unless you start the car. You can also do a leak down test - when the pump is turned off, the fuel pressure should remain steady for at least 10 seconds then gradually go down. In my case, it took several minutes for the pressure to drop by 10 PSI. If the pressure drops immediately, you may have a problem with the Fuel Pressure Regulator or the check valve in the Fuel Pump (not so sure about the check valve).

The ground points I'm referring to are the main engine harness ground wires which are bolted on top of the engine, adjacent to the intake plenum, near cylinder #2. I've had starting problem before (no CEL nor fault codes) on our 99 I30 (similar to 4th Gen Max). I took voltage measurements, cleaned the air intake (MAF sensor and throttle valve), did fuel pressure measurement and leak down test, did plug 'spark' test, listened for injector 'clicking,' checked vacuum and other components but still car won't start consistently. I pulled out the ground wires, cleaned the lugs and grounding points, re-installed and then applied dielectric grease (to prevent corrosion). The car never have had starting problem since then (3 years ago).

[Justin35ll]

IT STARTS!!!!!!!!! Thank you for all the help guys seriously..

Went outside today and decided to clean my garage. Pushed both my cars out in to the driveway (the maxima and my 240sx)

Cleaned the garage and then thought since the batteries are dead i'm going to use my jetta battery. Well I started my jetta up and drove it next to the maxima, hooked up the jumper cables, made sure everything was hooked up and read for start.Cranked it over and on the 4 crank fired right up. I almost cried lol but really it started right up and idled at 1100ish til it warmed up and then sat around 650 - 700ish.

I made sure I kept the clutch pedal held in as there was no gear oil in the trans yet.

I just can't believe it started right up.. I turned it off and did it about 3 or 4 more times to make sure it really was starting up everytime..

I don't know if it was maybe just the batteries I was using before weren't cranking it hard enough?

[loystock]

Excellent. Have a nice weekend then.