I could deal with the CVT, at least in theory. I could deal with the loud, underpowered 170HP engine that can't get out of its own way. I could deal with the poor general design that underutilized available room and resulted in a much lower overall cargo capacity than many comparable competitors. I could deal with the aesthetics of the rear end of the first generation Rogue somewhat reminding me of a hideous, completely irredeemable PT Cruiser.

What I couldn't deal with was knowing that no matter how many times I reminded the dealer service department to double, triple, and quadrouple check the CVT fluid level after they finished a drain and refill, they still left it overfilled. I also couldn't deal with them using NS-3 instead of NS-2 in my 2013 Rogue without even telling me first, and that they did this when I was less than 2,000 miles beyond the expiration of my powertrain warranty. I couldn't deal with worrying that the dealer had irreparably shortened the life of the CVT despite my best efforts to extend its life as long as possible, and I simply couldn't handle the stress and anxiety it was causing me on a routine basis. I also became wary that the clicking sound that comes and goes when I have the fan on high was something more ominous than tiny pieces of broken dried out leaves making their way through the vents. And I didn't like knowing that the outside door handles are weak, and one is cracked already. Replacing the one wouldn't have been a big deal, but knowing the crack is a result of a faulty design and weak materials and that it would eventually have to be replaced again wore on my mind.

I absolutely hate that many people on the Honda forum I've joined since I chose a base model CR-V instead of a more technologically complicated higher trim will use that as a way to launch personal attacks. I started a post with, "I was born in 1979," and one of the responses I got was, "OK Boomer, you're old. Cars changed and you didn't." People are sick, demented, and hateful. They don't realize that the youngest baby boomer is at least 15 years older than me, and many are more than 30 years older than me. I have a blind spot monitor. Actually, I have two of them. And I've had them since the day I was born. They're above my nose and mouth. They're called eyes. I have a tire pressure monitor system. It's a little silver gauge that I bought at an autoparts store nearly 20 years ago for $5. I have forward emergency braking. It's called my right foot. And in about four hours, I'm going to have a mostly customizable new car that's about as simple as a new car can get in 2019. It's a 2019 CR-V LX.

They love that they have Apple Car Play in their EX trim and above. They complain that sometimes they have to disconnect and reconnect the lighting cable to their usb port up to five times to get the two systems to work together properly, but they think I'm crazy because I'm not infatuated with Apple Car Play. They think I'm being too picky and too demanding when I explain that if it were a true screen mirroring system that allowed me to use every screen, every menu, and every app on my phone through the car's touch screen, I'd be a lot more excited about it. But that's not what Apple Car Play is, not even close.

They love that they have SiriusXM in their stock factory head unit, but they don't seem to mind that their entire car won't function properly if they replace that head unit in favor of a friendlier aftermarket audio system that can have WIRELESS Apple Car Play if I wanted it. That's something they'll NEVER have in their EX, EX-L, or Touring. They love their seven inch touchscreen, but don't seem to mind that its embedded in an eleven inch bezel, leaving nearly half the overall available screen space area completely unused and totally wasted. They love how their cars beep and scream all kinds of safety warnings at them because their attention spans aren't long enough to know how to drive safely without a robotic nanny constantly forcing them to bring their eyes up from whatever distraction is occupying their attention every five seconds. Worst of all, they seem to love that the car drives them instead of them driving the car. They aren't smart enough or perceptive enough to understand their judgement and self-sufficiency are being called into question. Or maybe they actually are smart enough to realize it, and they simply don't care, which is EVEN WORSE.

I suppose in a sense, they're right when they say cars changed and I didn't. But what I explained over there was that cars got worse while I got better. It's a shame most of society seems to be going in the opposite direction. I will definitely look back fondly on my Nissan and the simplicity offered by the first generation Rogue. Most of that simplicity is still avaiable in the 2019 CR-V LX without many of the headaches created by the Rogue's shortcomings, and that's why I made this decision, in spite of the Honda LX having less overall equipment and features. The only feature I'm really going to miss is the intelligent entry that allowed me to never remove my keys from my pocket. The rest of the features I'm sacrificing, like a power adjustable seat and moon roof, are just gimmicky toys as far as I'm concerned. The Nissan's bose stereo with subwoofer can be replaced and upgraded with an aftermarket system in my base model LX. I really liked my NIssan and I've never lost the desire in over six years to take it out for the occasional 10-20 mile joyride just for the hell of it. Shít, I think I have to do that right now before I say goodbye in a few hours.

As for the Honda, it has a CVT, but without all the problems of JATCO CVTs. There's no transmission dipstick, but there's a check bolt, which is maybe even better. As long as the check bolt is opened properly when refilling the fluid, it's impossible to overfill. It has a regular oil dipstick, which is becoming more and more unique in today's new car market. It has direct injection for better fuel economy, which, by itself, results in some limited, extremely minor, and relatively harmless oil dilution, but it also has, and FOR THE LAST TIME, a naturally aspirated 2.4L engine. The 2019 LX engine is the last non-turbo offered in a CR-V. In 2020, Honda will be putting the extremely suspect 1.5L turbo engine with SEVERE oil dilution problems in all CR-V trim lines.

But I'm the crazy one because I'm more concerned about longevity and reliablity over fuel economy and the loss of about six horsepower. Some people are just arrogant. Or maybe they're insecure and don't want to admit they regret buying their lemon of a poorly designed direct injection turbo engine and they're jealous that I didn't make the same mistake (I almost did, but the specific vehicle I ordered ending up getting sold to someone else, and I had to regroup, which gave me more time to think and reach a better decision). I suppose they could argue that my 2013 Nissan purchase was a mistake. But it wasn't. I knew what I was buying. I just didn't realize how difficult it would be to manage it the way I wanted to manage it.

I drive a 2012 CR-V LX and seldom frequent the Honda forums. It's a nice feeling owning a vehicle where you don't have to worry about normal parts wearing out/breaking before they should.

For some reason, I don’t see a Tesla in your immediate future.

Kidding aside, I actually read your whole post since you put a lot of effort.

Seems you had a incompetent dealership problem.

Anyways, I was at ihop yesterday and this elderly couple was parked next to me in their huge automobile from the 50-60’s. I am sure the old man was so proud of his ride since it looked brand new.

Those were good times being able to fix your car without all these computerized stuff. You were probably born 20 to 30 years to early.

I grew up in the 70’s as a kid, those were the great times riding in those spacious vehicles back then. Loved our station wagon where they had back seats facing the rear. Cool place for us back then.

I loved just watching out the window on long trips and seeing life go by. That was my YouTube.

Being able to ride my bike and not be traced by some cell phone. Going out on wonderful adventures without a lo jack smart phone giving your parents your every location by calling you.

The problem is we are in the mid part of this evolution of self driving cars. It’s the babies born today who don’t have to live through this crap at the moment.

In 50-100 years, self driving cars will surely be perfected.
Heck, we got a man on the moon with less computing power on an Apple Watch.

Maybe our future problems is trying to have a less stressful trip to Mars because we need to leave this resource depleted planet by then.

Really thought it be like the Jetson’s by 1999 with flying vehicles, but we still have alot of growing pains in the transportation world.

As for the door handle, yes crappy car parts may break down, but the silver lining in today’s world is you can go to YouTube and learn to repair it yourself.

The only good thing about technology & the internet or World Wide Web for an old fart like myself.

The internet did give the people the power, the knowledge, to really let us maintain our vehicles. People helping people, especially the mechanic who could lose work spreading their knowledge. Even non mechanics helping each other.
And every other field in society where we can support and help each other.

One thing I like about the Honda is that they put the gear selector on the dashboard kinda. Is it still like that?

I loved it back in the day when the gear selector was attached to the steering wheel. It gave so much space up front that you could stick 3 people up front. Or 3 kids, it was less stressful back in 70s- early 80’s where it was ok to do that.

Point is, why is it not like that anymore. No middle space in the front but a gear selector up your a** if you wanted to sit in the middle. Oh yah, safety, blah blah.

Ok, done with my response rant to your rant. I feel better now.

I'm a little younger than you, but old enough to remember the station wagons that had third row seats facing the rear. My first grade babysitter of high school age had one that must have been at least 10 years old by the time she was driving it. I definitely took a ride or three back there. My best recollection is I think it was a Buick.

Yes, the transmission shifter in the CR-V is on the dashboard and will continue to be for 2020. I also love the gear selector on the steering wheel. My father had a 1973 Malibu that I loved with the bench seat in the front and everything. Wasn't a wagon.

I like learning about stuff on Youtube, but I've never done any real work myself beyond oil changes and a couple times swapping out a head unit on older Toyotas that were remarkably easy to take apart and put back together. I also hard wired a radar detector into those same Toyotas, but that's about the limit of my experience. I've never really had a good place to work on cars. I used to live in a condo without a garage, so I had space, but it was always subject to weather conditions. Now I live in an apartment and the garage here is not a good place to do any work other than maybe changing a license plate frame. I'm afraid of taking stuff apart and not being able to put it back together, so I just use an independent shop for most work. Occasionally I've gone to dealers, but I'm learning better now. I don't see any non-warranty work getting done by the dealer on my new Honda.

As for my Nissan, I listened to Jungleland and Backstreets, got a little sentimental for a few minutes, reset the head unit to factory settings, and proceeded on my way. After about 30 seconds of applying my foot to the gas pedal in the CR-V, I didn't miss the Rogue nearly as much anymore. And this is on the less powerful (but more reliable over the long term) 2.4L naturally aspirated engine without any mods whatsoever. The 184HP CR-V in Eco mode produces about the same torque as the Rogue in Sport mode, at least by my feel while driving.

Thanks for reading my post. I know it was long.

Rogue One wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:24 am

I drive a 2012 CR-V LX and seldom frequent the Honda forums. It's a nice feeling owning a vehicle where you don't have to worry about normal parts wearing out/breaking before they should.

Those veritical brake lights always annoyed me so much. If Honda hadn't redesigned the tail for the current generation, I never would have bought one. Wouldn't have ever looked at it or even considered it. But the 3rd and 4th generation CR-Vs with multi-point fuel injection will last a long, long time. Even the later ones with direct injection like mine should also have excellent longevity.

When we went car shopping to replace the Odyssey back in 2015, we looked at the CRV, in which my dad was turned away from it. Consequently, we also went car shopping in 2018 and 2019, and both times my dad was turned away from the CRV. We, however, had a 2018 CRV LX has a loaner while our 99 Accord was in the dealer's body shop (salesperson didn't know how to pull out a new car without hitting our car).

However, before we purchased the 2019 Rogue, we gave the CRV a shot, but my parents didn't like the value that was given for the money. They wanted built-in navi (Honda uses Garmin now), in which navi only comes with Touring (I thought Navi comes on the EX-L and Touring trims). They also wanted the 360 degree camera, which really pushed the CRV off the list. But with the time we had the CRV loaner, we actually liked the driving dynamics of it and everything, except that it didn't have power lightgate (but that's the norm for base models).

I am on the Accord and MDX forums still and there are alot of "boomers" there. However, those CRV peeps are similar to the people from the MDX forums, who also complain about the 2014-2017 MDXs not having Android Auto and CarPlay, and just straight up tell people to get the 2018-2020 MDX just because of that feature.

I totally understand if you want a full service built-in navigation unit and around view monitor, the CR-V is not the right vehicle.

I know in 2017 and maybe 2018, Honda had an EX-L trim and EX-L Navi trim. In 2019, the EX-L Navi trim is not available. The only way to get navigation in the head unit in 2019 is on the Touring model.

Waze always works well for me and we don't have to pay for map updates. With CP/AA, there's really no need for navigation in the head unit anymore. Even without CP/AA, I still use Waze on my phone. I got a CupFone with extension from Weathertech. It's not perfect, but it works pretty well.

Congratulations on your 2019 Rogue.

Sorry I read your rant. I'm getting my 2020 Rogue sl awd tomorrow. I'm a little concerned now. I owned a 2006 Nissan Altama awhile back and gave it to my older son. It still performs well and looks great. I now have a 2013 Kia Sorento EX. Great SUV. Again I'm giving it to my older son as he needs a second car as his family is growing. This Rogue was bought for me before I had any say about it. A gift from my second born son. I'm concerned mostly about the under powered engine. The Kia has a great 6 cyl and I got nearly 30 miles a gallon on the highway. I guess I'll just see how everything goes. I take very good care of my vehicles and so far they have been very reliable.

DTASFAB wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:28 am

I totally understand if you want a full service built-in navigation unit and around view monitor, the CR-V is not the right vehicle.

I know in 2017 and maybe 2018, Honda had an EX-L trim and EX-L Navi trim. In 2019, the EX-L Navi trim is not available. The only way to get navigation in the head unit in 2019 is on the Touring model.

Waze always works well for me and we don't have to pay for map updates. With CP/AA, there's really no need for navigation in the head unit anymore. Even without CP/AA, I still use Waze on my phone. I got a CupFone with extension from Weathertech. It's not perfect, but it works pretty well.

Congratulations on your 2019 Rogue.

Thanks... I already have a list of complaints with our 2019 Rogue, and am planning to make Nissan do a huge recall or bring a class action against Nissan for a specific issue... Nissan went downhill within 3 years.

Yeah I was totally surprised that Honda removed the EX-L w/Navi option as that was an option across the board (Accord, Civic, HR-V, Pilot, Odyssey) which has Navi as an option on the EX-L trim, which threw me off as I technically am I a Honda fanboy

Map updates on the new Hondas are free, as they come from Garmin. If you have an Android phone, Android Auto works on the phone as a standalone app, which is really great and helpful as its simple and clean to use, and makes your phone the center of the vehicle instead of the headunit. However, you can always upgrade the OEM headunit to an aftermarket unit, and in Honda's that's an easy job lol.

I hope you are enjoying your new CRV LX! That's probably the best choice imo over any other trim level.

DTASFAB wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:20 am

I suppose in a sense, they're right when they say cars changed and I didn't. But what I explained over there was that cars got worse while I got better.

Cars changed and I didn't, but I think cars have gotten better and I didn't change. I will miss my 2006 Outback and the forums were always great...but I wasn't going to do the head gasket work. In February I leased a 2019 Hybrid SV for 3 years and I resigned myself to have car payments for the rest of my life. I might get a 2022 Honda...I like them

excel_novice wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:35 pm

DTASFAB wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:20 am

I suppose in a sense, they're right when they say cars changed and I didn't. But what I explained over there was that cars got worse while I got better.

Cars changed and I didn't, but I think cars have gotten better and I didn't change. I will miss my 2006 Outback and the forums were always great...but I wasn't going to do the head gasket work. In February I leased a 2019 Hybrid SV for 3 years and I resigned myself to have car payments for the rest of my life. I might get a 2022 Honda...I like them

Car payments the rest of your life?

Too bad your not a degenerate gambler like myself.

Had around $7000 on Robinhood, bought BPTH around $2.50. If I didnt dump, it would have been around $230,000. Went up like 4000%.

But left around $9 and bought back at $11 and it goes to around $85.

Before tanking to around $30.

So $7,000 to $90,000.

Could buy a nice car in those few days.

I won't recommend trading penny stocks unless you willing to lose your savings, rent, mortgage, or family though!

I wasn't sure if the Honda dealer was going to wholesale my traded in Rogue to go to auction or try to sell it on their own used car lot. They seem to have opted for the latter:

https://express.whiteplainshonda.com/ex ... V7DW138174

The interior really needed no work whatsoever. They just washed and polished the exterior and spruced it up, since I hadn't taken it to the car wash in several months, and it looks great. Almost makes me want to go buy it, LOL.

If you click "view 360 gallery" there's a video that shows more than the still pictures, and in the last 2 seconds of the video, the Honda dealership plate frame falls down because they only used one screw to hold it in place. It's funny they just left that in when they could have easily edited it out.

that ending is kinda funny, i never liked the 2013 tail lights. SV with Bose and sun roof....you must have had the premium package. hope they gave you Blue Book value for it.

excel_novice wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:01 pm

that ending is kinda funny, i never liked the 2013 tail lights. SV with Bose and sun roof....you must have had the premium package. hope they gave you Blue Book value for it.

Yeah, it was a really nice package of equipment, especially considering any and all leather is abhorrent to me. I'm not sure about 2008-11, but for 2012-13, the only Rogues that had any leather anywhere whatsoever were the loaded models with the SL package. The only options I missed were the around view monitor, heated seats, and upgraded headlights. I loved having a urethane steering wheel with all the other stuff that came in the vehicle from the factory. I would have gladly paid SL package full price for the around view monitor if I could have done that without having to add leather on the steering wheel, shift knob, and seats. The heated seats and special headlights wouldn't have made a damn bit of difference to me. I never had any problem seeing at night with the standard headlights, and if I want to warm my a**, I'll stay in bed.

They gave me a very competitive price for dealer trade. Obviously they weren't going to give me full private party book value. I didn't want to bother going to the effort and giving up the time it would have taken to sell privately. If anyone reading this ends up buying it, I have the full maintenance records and I'll tell you everything you could ever possibly want to know about its history. I actually think their listing of $9900 is a fair price for it. If I were looking to buy this vehicle again, I'd go back and buy this one, even at 69K, because I know its history, rather than taking a gamble on something with only 30-40K. It only needs some extremely light, inexpensive, DIY adjustments that I wouldn't even consider to be real "repairs," that I will be happy to disclose once the vehicle is sold. Much of it can be found from what I posted here before I traded it in, but it's no longer my property, so I can't say negative things about it in public, as minor and insignificant as they would be to say.