Will 90-93 Bose rear speakers work in a 94-96?

[daegrigg]

Can't find a clear yes/no on this. Will the earlier speaker fit in the 94-96 plug and play?

Thanks

[elwesso]

yep.

[Q451990]

90 is different than all other years... not sure about compatibility in the 91-96 range, but exclude 1990s from your search.

Heath

[elwesso]

the rears are fine from what I know, its the front AMPS that are different... AFAIK the speakers were never an issue.

they redesigned the 94 rear speakers and they are superior.

[Jesda]

Yes, and you should get Infinity Kappas instead if you can.

[Q45tech]

Each amplifier has on board equalizing circuitry to match interiors [hardness of leather]. There are multi dozens of special equalizations.

That is what Bose does, measure the response of the cabin and design equalizers and ports in front to create a pleasing sound.

An interesting trick is to try an extra right front amplifier [passengerside] in a right rear speaker as the right channel is the sum channel..........the bass may please those who like extra.

[JohnPa]

Yes, and you should get Infinity Kappas instead if you can.

Do you go for the 2-way or the 3-way Kappas???

What do you replace the fronts with???

Thanks...............John

[Jesda]

Each amplifier has on board equalizing circuitry to match interiors [hardness of leather]. There are multi dozens of special equalizations.

That is what Bose does, measure the response of the cabin and design equalizers and ports in front to create a pleasing sound.

The most amusing part, is that after spending all that time and money, it still sounds like a clock radio.

[96Qowner]

LOL, it's your ears, youngster. Y'all have distorted expectations for bass output and decibels.

I remember my days well, when in order to make anything sound better, you'd just turn up the bass and treble all the way, or if you had an "equalizer", you'd make a nice smiley face out of the sliders.

It might be a fascinating experience, sometime, to listen to music through a fully equalized system. Of course, these days, fidelity in recorded music is crap, anyway - it's all been digitally processed and compressed, and the so-called "music" doesn't lend itself to high fidelity anyway.

[daegrigg]

Jesda's not the only (dis)paraging remark I have read about the BOSE system and how by today's standards, it doesn't measure up.

Maybe.

The Q45 system in my then new 94 still is one of the best systems I have ever heard. So good in fact that I preferred to listen to some music in the car as compared to my expensive stereo system. Yes, I like the deep hip hop base but I first like the experience of the music.

So to my ears, the Bose is still a great system that probably can be made even better with upgraded speakers.

My2c

Don

[Jesda]

The problem is, when you try to listen to anything with more than 3 or 4 instruments, the Bose system gets confused and it all starts to sound like mush.

With Luther Vandross and Miles Davis, the instrumentation and vocals are very precise and well-separated to begin with, so its not too shabby.

When you get into Audioslave, Michael Jackson, Our Lady Peace, or anything with a lot of strong, powerful vocals and instruments, it loses its composure and it goes from sounding like music to sounding like loud mush.

The worst is when I try listening to live music. Its a lost cause.

The Hondas, Cadillacs, and Nissans/Infinitis I've driven -- they all have this weird tendency to turn rock and pop into incoherent mush while doing acceptably with R&B and jazz.

At home, I have an Onkyo amp, a sound card with a 96KHz Wolfson DAC, and Grado headphones, so my sensitivity is a little high.

I used to have a really nice Pioneer amp from the 70s that I used specifically as an amp for the Grados. I regret giving it away and really wish I got it fixed.

[Q45tech]

Simple to verify. Buy/copy a frequency response test cd and insert in cd player or modulate thru the radio and measure the parameters.Frequency response and distortion with the proper test equipment.

Response is easy with a Radio Shack soundlevel meter [$30]..........make sure windows are rolled up and seats are as new to leather hardness use fader to test front rear separately.

Graph the frequency response.

Based on the previous capacitor failures in the amplifiers not sure what the accurate equalizer life is, probably 6-7 years in the changing temperature of Q interiors. Remember cars are only designed to last 7 years so why should the audio system be different!

[daegrigg]

Fair comment.

Per Q45Tech, systems do deteriorate over time. I bet the sound many of us hear in our 10-16 year old cars is a ghost of what it was when new.

That said, it is worth looking at the design paradigm for older versus newer systems. Older systems were certainly not designed for the kind of earth shaking audio that you hear (and feel) from many cars today. Systems that use high efficiency speakers such as the Bose (1-2 ohms) will not handle high energy levels as well as systems of higher impedance (and less efficiency).

The music and listener matter too.

Another dimension has been added to pop music in the last several years and it is volume, Volume, VOLUME!! It took me a while to get why my son cranks up the volume in his headphones to what I would consider distortion levelS. It's because that how he thinks the music should sound.

So

If you want a system that will deliver that kind of music sound, Bose is probably not it.

If you want a system that will deliver the Great Gate of Kiev so that you believe you are in front row center or next to the lead vocalist in a jazz group, Bose is still competitive. But a clock radio it is not.

[Jesda]

The music and listener matter too. Another dimension has been added to pop music in the last several years and it is volume, Volume, VOLUME!! It took me a while to get why my son cranks up the volume in his headphones to what I would consider distortion levelS. It's because that how he thinks the music should sound.

I agree. Popular music these days is often distorted from the studio, so it sounds like garbage on even the best systems.

I've never heard Antonin Dvorak sound so alive until I got these Grados. Classical and symphonic music, again where precision rendering is necessary, is another weakness for Bose. All the strings, horns, and wind instruments go from a finely carved ice sculpture to room temperature tap water.

...Bose is still competitive. But a clock radio it is not.

What if its a Bose Wave Radio with a clock?

[Q45tech]

http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~m...2.pdf

Might help understand amplifier.

[96Qowner]

The Q45 system in my ... 94 still is one of the best systems I have ever heard. So good in fact that I preferred to listen to some music in the car as compared to my expensive stereo system.

I've never heard Antonin Dvorak sound so alive until I got these Grados. Classical and symphonic music, again where precision rendering is necessary, is another weakness for Bose. All the strings, horns, and wind instruments go from a finely carved ice sculpture to room temperature tap water.

I tend to have the same experience as daegrigg. But I will readily acknowledge that it's been many years since I listened to a multi-hundred watt system driving fine well-imaged speakers, either in the car or home.

There's been a lot of offhand discussion on the forum about the Bose system and its shortcomings. The concensus seems to agree with Jesda, and within the requirements of that concensus, I guess I can't argue. The Bose system simply doesn't have the power for high decibels. So if you need volume, yeah, you need to replace the entire system.

I sold stereo equipment for many years back in the 70s and learned a few things about high fidelty. You can take almost any system and add power to it and notice a dramatic difference, particularly in the power-hungry bass response. Take speakers that aren't equiped to handle high power and drive them with a huge amp, and they'll sound absolutely remarkable - they still won't go any louder without breaking up, but they'll sound MUCH better all the way up. The drawback of the Bose system is it's relatively low power. You just can't get high decibels out of it without having the speakers start distorting all to hell.

Within its design parameters, it sounds REALLY good, in my (relatively educated) opinion.

I'm puzzled by your comments about classical and symphonic music, Jesda. I haven't listened to any of it in the Q, but I would have expected the Bose to render that particularly well. Of course, the fidelity and imaging of your Grados will blow any car system away. Have you listened to classical on an "upgraded" system in a Q? It would be easy to improve on the Bose's power, and upgrading tweeters would certainly improve the crispness of high frequencies, but I would think it would be VERY difficult to duplicate the Bose system's imaging and flat frequency resonse. You could get a ton more sizzle and boom, but it would be hard not to screw up the entire frequency curve and image phasing for music that requires an accurate duplication of a live sound.

So, for those that want the crispy, thump thump sound, I agree with the concensus - get rid of the whole system. But for those that don't need the decibels, I think it would be hard to beat the Bose system. I've seen several posts by people who've had their Bose amps rebuilt, and they've all been immediately impressed with the improvement.

[daegrigg]

WAVE if you like Bose.

[Q45tech]

The Bose system simply doesn't have the power for high decibels. So if you need volume, yeah, you need to replace the entire system

The problem is not the amplifiers but the speakers..........small low magnet weight speakers in small door enclosures are horrible in efficiency.

A PROPER SPEAKER should have an output of 94-95 db SPL at 1 foot with 1 WATT RMS INPUT.

http://www.hookedontronics.com...59#sp

Before you condemn the system install new speakers that match the 1-2 ohm impedence.

[elwesso]

I dont really understand what all the big deal is with the bose sucking... Yes, in the 90-93 it does compared to the 94, but dang, i think my bose system in the 94 sounds great! I like to listen to my music kinda loud, and I never have any qualms about it.. the systme in my current 94 is rebuilt I think, and its noticeably better than my old 94 which was original...

However, in my parents car they have the monsoon sound system, and its probably better by what most people would consider... The highs are ear bleeding, the mids will make your eyes water, and lows can be felt in the pants (i am not saying this like a bad thing )... However, I find for long distance driving, that all of this gets very annoying.. The bass has to be promptly turned down as well as the highs...

With that being said, i think the 94 Bose in my Q is more livable than that..... I personally think my bose is fine, but due to the high repair costs if it dies, ill probably go aftermarket.... I hope it doesnt though, because then ill have to sell all my goodies (CD changer, HU, etc).

[96Qowner]

The problem is not the amplifiers but the speakers

Same thing, really.

Bose has been producing superior 4 inch full-range speakers for decades. Their most renowned home system consisted of nothing but 9 full-range 4 inch speakers arrayed in a tuned surround enclosure, while every other manufacturer was concentrating on 3-way, front-firing woofer/mid/tweeter systems. When setup properly in a home, the Bose system blew most others away, even in imaging, which the surround/rear-firing design should have muddied. That system also included a dedicated preamp/equalizer, driven by as large an amp as you wished. That system was also less efficient than average. I just drove mine with a 250watt/channel amp. Speaker efficiency is merely convenient, not an assumed design goal.

So, if the speakers are less efficient, you add power - doesn't make the speakers less "good". Unfortunately, the system in the Q45 is individually powered at the speaker, and I assume you can't overdrive the input from the preamp without exceeding the design tolerances of the amps. And you can't replace the amps because then you lose the individual built-in equalizers.

So, if you could find more efficient replacement speakers with the same frequency curve, you could gain decibels and tightness in the bass. Maybe the Kappas fit that bill - haven't heard 'em.

I just value the fact that the system is tuned to the actual car interior. Loud is easy - flat frequency response and phasing take careful design.



Edit: Anyone know if you can separate the equalizer circuitry from the amps? If so, you could wire big beefy amps between the head unit and equalizer/speakers and still retain the original sound image.

[elwesso]

Edit: Anyone know if you can separate the equalizer circuitry from the amps? If so, you could wire big beefy amps between the head unit and equalizer/speakers and still retain the original sound image.

NO you cant do this... I took my bose amps apart one time, and theyre just these little itty bitty things and you cant tell whtas what.....

[Q45tech]

It takes 4 - 4" speakers to equal the sound pressure of 1 - 8" speaker assumming both deflect the same +-1". You either have to have 4 speakers in a door or move the single speaker +-4" ---------impossible. A single 6x9 only has to move +-1.125"-------possible. to = the same level as a 4"does with 4" so the equalization and LEVEL decrease on the rear to match the front,

A 6x9 is only 85% the area of an 8".

[maxnix]

When you get into Audioslave, Michael Jackson, Our Lady Peace, or anything with a lot of strong, powerful vocals and instruments, it loses its composure and it goes from sounding like music to sounding like loud mush.

The worst is when I try listening to live music. Its a lost cause.

Actually, live acoustic music sounds pretty good on my OEM system.

But I never play MJ (if I did, I would never admit it either!), nor any of the other over processed bands that pass for rock n'roll these days.

Hey, it's a car, not a stereo studio.

[tkd_q45]

Man - my stock 94 system must be wored out! Sounds really sub par compared to my W124'system. Sounds OK but nothing impressive. Agree with the "no highs, no lows, must be Bose!"

[Q45tech]

Again what is MEASURED frequency response of each individual amplifier.What is your ear hearing sensitivity at each sound level. People don't realize how their hearing changes as they age or are exposed to loud sounds.

[Jesda]

Actually, live acoustic music sounds pretty good on my OEM system.

But I never play MJ (if I did, I would never admit it either!), nor any of the other over processed bands that pass for rock n'roll these days.

Hey, it's a car, not a stereo studio.

Thats the absolute worst for me. I go to concerts in theatres and outdoor venues and know how live music should sound. On my home stereo even on 1970s Koss speakers and a Yamaha sub... DMB, James Taylor, Norah Jones, and Better Than Ezra sound like I'm right there. Live music is naturally bright and crisp. Bose speakers and amps kill that brightness, and a lot of people confuse that muddy sound with richness.

And no, its a rolling jukebox, not a car.

[96Qowner]

I go to concerts in theatres and outdoor venues and know how live music should sound.

Just something to remember about live concerts - You're listening to speakers, and the sound field is an absolute mess. The highs come from very efficient horns and blast out through the crowd in order to saturate the field. And the bass is impossible, because it gets absorbed by the crowd in unpredictable frequencies.

What you end up with is a sizzling thump thump sound - great fun to listen to - you can feel it in your hair and your gut.

I'm not arguing - it's an entirely subjective thing. There are obviously different sets of priorities in a sound system. I agree that the Bose system could have crisper highs and more solid lows, but I prefer it over a system where no attention is paid to flat frequency response, ie, to sacrifice it in favor of dramatic highs and/or lows.

[Jesda]

The absence of high and low is called "flat"