Wide wheels on Na Ka

[midnightclubbaa]

well i have a 1991 NA KA 240sx with LSD and HICASi was wondering if i got got 9 inch wide wheels would that be totally stupid of me.some tell me that a NA KA doesn't need wheels that big and that it would be overkill.Also if i did get 9 inch wide wheels would my handling improve greatly.i would be planning on using the car for auto x, drifting, and drag racing

[Onizuka]

Say this to yourself 1000 times:

Traction depends on rubber compound, not tire width

[Axel Grungy]

i dunno id feel like a fruit what wideass tires with no power lol, its just overkill

[chmercer]

get them if you want them. your handling will improve unless you have s0-3s on your stock wheels and you put hankooks on the new ones. but im betting you have mud and snow tires on your stock wheels anyway. and youll probably end up putting some budget performance tires on the new ones, like 712s or es100 or somthing. plus they look cool. and if you ever get power you dont have to buy new wheels.

[midnightclubbaa]

get them if you want them. your handling will improve unless you have s0-3s on your stock wheels and you put hankooks on the new ones. but im betting you have mud and snow tires on your stock wheels anyway. and youll probably end up putting some budget performance tires on the new ones, like 712s or es100 or somthing. plus they look cool. and if you ever get power you dont have to buy new wheels.

well right now i have s03 on my stockers so wider wheels won't have that much effect

so i guess theres no losing only winning with getting them

[chmercer]

well you do you plan to get equally good tires if you get bigger wheels? if you go cheap on the tires you will actually reduce your cars ability to handle.

[xyoufailmex]

Wide tires + low power drifting = NOT GONNA HAPPEN

If you get some 9"s wheels, stretch some 205s to em and then were talking

[HashiriyaS14]

I'm thinking of going even more insane than all of this.

17x9 +24 in the front17x10.5 +27 in the rear

This is a '98 S14. Do I have a prayer of running these without fender flares? Will they rub all to hell?

Would I be better off running the 17x9's all around and just putting spacers in the rear? The 10.5s have a nice, big, nasty lip on 'em though, and I'd like to rock that if possible.

It is illegal to run tires that extend past one's fenders, right? Because if not, I'll totally do it, I think the bosozoku wheel look is cool.
Modified by HashiriyaS14 at 8:39 PM 3/24/2005

[Exar-Kun]

Say this to yourself 1000 times:

Traction depends on rubber compound, not tire width

Once done, repeat as follows:

"Contact patch area is a function of tire pressure and weight."

It goes with J-specs quote.

as for HashiriyaS14..

dude..just....dude...

QUIT IT.

You're talking about adding a massive ammount of unsprung, and (even worse) rotational mass to the car, with no power to compensate....

Much less, keeping your suspension geometries, hub stress, scrub radious, and a host of other things even nearly correct....

then to top it all off, you're talking about using SPACERS to make it all fit... (search around on my own, and SMithSR's allong with others stances on this and formulate your own opinion)

please. Put the crack pipe of "I want wide wheels" down.

also

"I think the bosozoku wheel look is cool."

Really? I think it wrekcs hub bearings and put undue stress on your suspension, and decreases your spring and shocks ability to propperly control the road and steering inputs.

Still think that's cool? Knock yourself out, I'll be passing you on the inside of ANY turn.

If you're still hell bent on wide wheels...that setup may clear, depnding on your tire size. To be safe, you may need to run a +20 front...

ANyways. Bleh. I'm too tired to start this debate over again. SUffice to say, if you want wide wheels for the sake of wide wheels..knock yourself out, and send me money..because you obviously have more than enough disposable income.

FOr the orional thread starter, ChMercer is correct, if you already ahve s-03's..get the same, if not better, a tire on the new wheels..you may notice a bit of improvement..

search around, theres an adctive thread (and a faq) on tire widths, and other things that will explain it all.

-Chet

[SmithSR]

yikes!

Here is my new setup:

-Front-S14 SE 16x6.5" +40 with 205/55-16 RA1

-Rear-S14 SE 16x6.5" +40 with 205/55-16 RA1

Grip is good. I so badly want to do autoX or closed road course with the guys on here...

[chmercer]

hashiriya since it sounds like you pretty much just care about looks, ill offer my advice. That setup will not need flares at all. your probably even running the risk of catching coilover with that front wheel size. if you want it to be flush your going to have to run much lower. do you want to run flares? do you care about tire wear? things like that are important in deciding on how big / low you want to go. one of my favorite cars runs a 18x12 -5 with a 40mm flare in the rear, 18x10 -3 in the front IIRC. dont quote me on the front wheel though.

[Nismo_Freak]

yikes!

Here is my new setup:

-Front-S14 SE 16x6.5" +40 with 205/55-16 RA1

-Rear-S14 SE 16x6.5" +40 with 205/55-16 RA1

Grip is good. I so badly want to do autoX or closed road course with the guys on here...

[Nismo_Freak]

Say this to yourself 1000 times:

Traction depends on rubber compound, not tire width

And as usual I will be the nay sayer.

Wide tires can improve tire performance over narrower tires.

We aren't racing in the snow.

No moron will argue with my point, as I've only got to point to F1, JGTC, etc. to prove otherwise.

[Exar-Kun]

"can" doesn't mean "will"



That gets determined by the tread design changes, and cornering force for a given slip angle for the tire size you're 'upgrading to'...

but thats more on the technical end, don't you think?

Traction does have more to do with tread design and tire compound than tire width (not to mention how effectively oyour suspension can keep the tire in its optimum contact with the ground). But two tires of equal design/compound..the one with a wider contact patch (to a point, I've discussed this in finium previously) will produce slighly higher cornering forces for a given slip angle, typically.

As Alan has noted previously-sometimes this is due to better heat capacity via the larger surface area, other times it may have to do with the track conditions, etc...sometimes its the more 'stable' footprint of a square contact patch, etc....

Whether or not this will result in a handling improvement is another issue. Going too wide will hurt you, also. Keep in mind the larger the tire, the more it weighs, and a host of other factors contribute to tire choices in JGTC and others..

and, as many people point to F1, etc....we run street cars, on (for the most part) street tires, the physics and other aspects (as well as the money, and thought going into the optimization of a particular tire/suspension setup) are limited because of the cars intended use.

so comparing them to what we do is just bunk. "apples to oranges" more or less.

If you want a comparison worth making, look at the Speed World touring, and other classes requring more "street/factory" suspenion and chassis designs.

...for reference, Auberlin's world touring car runs a 235-40-17. And a host of M3's local here doing track events run the same...

Smith: your car looks nice with those wheels, it should turn in quite nicelly too

Alan: not really arguing your point (because it's a correct one!), just specifying it a bit

-Chet

[LiU]

it's a double edged sword, personally I have a set of 16x8s on order (+20 offset), I think the key is not to go crazy w/ it, as the benefits will probably be offset by the negatives (eveyrthing exar mentioned)

[deezlins]

So when you are accelerating hard more weight is transfered to the rear and would put more weight on the rear tires making wider tires useful (to a certain extent depending on how sticky the tires were and how hard you actually accelerated) right? And the same with lateral force correct? So really the more force and weight you put on the tires, especially sticky tires because you can put even more force to them without slipping, the more wider tires would benefit you (to a certain extent) right?

[Nismo_Freak]

So when you are accelerating hard more weight is transfered to the rear and would put more weight on the rear tires making wider tires useful (to a certain extent depending on how sticky the tires were and how hard you actually accelerated) right? And the same with lateral force correct? So really the more force and weight you put on the tires, especially sticky tires because you can put even more force to them without slipping, the more wider tires would benefit you (to a certain extent) right?

Yes, the grip gain wouldn't level off as fast with the wider tires.

Assuming you had a greater load index of course.

The major limiting factor in the tire is the compound. It determines how much friction (read: grip) is being produced.

Secondary limiting factors can be things that limit the amount of compound in contact with the ground such as camber, void ratio (ratio of empty space to rubber in tread designs), tire pressure, etc.

Another factor in tire performance is the tire sizing and construction. It dictates load index, slip angles, deformation under load, contact patch geometry, etc. A larger tire is a cooler tire, cooler is not always better as heat is beneficial to tires to a certain degree (dependent on compound).

Basically you want the stickiest compound you can quantify for the task with the greatest amount of compound to asphalt interaction. This may or may not facilitate wider tires depending on what you are trying to do.