Why retard timing?

[SloS13]

Just thought I'd let you guys know, i just got back from the track. With my crappy no-name bald all season tires, i managed a 13.5@105mph. Stock timing (no retard) and 112 octane (not sure if the gas was a factor or not, but i was empty and that's all they had).

Ive been stuck in 14.2 land for sooo long i cant express how happy I am to finally be where I wanted to be. With my 480's coming soon and some slicks, im hoping to hit 12's with the 210k miles KA-T

[Jookmasta]

hey whats ur setup and how come no timing retard? i was under the impression that u need to retard timing to save the engine? o btw ur my inspiration for continuing to strive to get my turbo on my 132K KADE. o ya did u do the install urself or did u pay someone?

[TrunkMonkey]

Stock timing (no retard) and 112 octane (not sure if the gas was a factor or not, but i was empty and that's all they had).

the 112 octane was a big factor.

-demetrius

[SloS13]

the 112 octane was a big factor.

-demetrius

Well, this is the first time ive ever used race gas. I usually run 12psi, but due to the colder weather, I backed it off a bit just in case I was maxing out my injectors.

Jookmaster - thx man Silvia 370swalbro 255Turbonetics t3/t4 .60 .63 360 degree thrust bearingfmax mani and dpz32 MAFSE-manageWidebandVLSD

I installed all the stuff myself and do my own tuning. Im not running timing retard cuz I've yet to hear any detonation. If it aint broke, dont fix it. I do run rather rich up top ~11:1-11.5:1

[Jookmasta]

i noticed ur not running an intercooler. how's the egts? also how long did it run ya on the installation? im assumin u used the emanage to control the injectors so how is the idle?

[Jookmasta]

i just looked on ur website and u are running an intercooler so n/m on the previous question.did u feel any difference with the msd blaster coil? did the crane ignition make a big difference? also did you switch from the safc to an emanage for a specific reason or just personal preference? just wondering cuz i was planning on using an safc for the fuel control

[SloS13]

the site is a bit outdated. I switched from using the Crane ignition and blaster coil back to stock. I like stock better. Im now running a pretty big Spearco FMIC. Emanage/S-AFC for what I'm doing wouldnt be much different seeing as how im not using any of the E-mange-specific functions. If cost is an issue, an S-AFC will work just fine unless you are particular about having the car finely tuned, then e-manage is what you want. I switched from SAFC to e-manage cuz it cost more and i figured that meant it was better, which is true to an extent, but like I said, im not even really taking advantage of the extra functions that e-manage has

[WDRacing]

The difference between pump gas and 112 is night and day.

IMPORTANT...If your new here, don't run over 8 lbs of boost without some type of timing retard especially on pump gas.

In a perfect world with all temps stable and the elevation/humidity are the same. For every full octane point you increase, you should be able to increase boost alone by 1-2 lbs. Thats from Kenne Bell. However, things are never perfect, so you'll only get away with 8-10 lbs of increase. It really depends on the motor and car. When I was running alcohol, I could add 8lbs of boost with no detonation at all. By the way, those bottles of octane booster only raise your octane in tenths, IE 93 + 104Ocatne booster= 93.5 at best.

[SloS13]

WD - question. I run 11-12psi on 93 all day long.

I've never heard any detonation on 93, do you think the timing would be more advanced running the 112?

[WDRacing]

Just cause you don't hear the knock doesn't mean it isn't there. When you do hear it, its uaually to late. The ECU is only going to advance the timing so much...so running 200 octane isn't going to help the ecu advance timing.

The ECU will retard timing under knock, but not enough to prevent damage from severe knock.

The main reason I said what I did above is because most guys that are new to forced induction don't have a wide band or a knock meter of some kind. Without these you don't really know whats going on with the motor.

Have you checked your base timing?

[SloS13]

yeah, base timing is spot-on. I've got a WB02, but not a knock meter. Im looking into getting one of the MSD units.

[WDRacing]

I'm gonna run as much boost as I can without exploding...so I know how you feel. I just don't want to see some guy blow his motor cause he got a bad tank of gas.

By the way, a tad off topic, but you should look into propane injection. I've been doing some serious research on this as of late. I'm 100% going to use it. The only bad thing is having a recirc BOV. But it's like running 110 race gass all the time, and it costs like 3 bucks every 1.5 months or so. A kit will run 400 bucks, but its a great investment.

This will enable us all to run high boost without needing to remap the timing in any way.

So I personally plan to run Alcohol as well as propane. The alcohol is for fuel not for anti knock though. In the end I'll have 3 different system running on the car, the stock ecu with SAFCII and 300ZX MAF, the Propane Injection and a Methonal/Alky Injection kit. Plus some N2O when I have some cash to spare. But thats down the road a bit.

Here's a link for the Propane;http://www.importpoweronline.c....html

[SloS13]

thanks for the link, I read it, and I'll give it some serious consideration. Its a bit expensive, but so is a gallon or two of 112 leaded every friday night.

[WDRacing]

Exactly...it's worth saving for. If we were made of money we wouldn't be having this discussion...lol.

[candela]

just a thought since you guys have mentioned it... I met the owner of IPO as he worked with an old DSM buddy of mine. Very nice guy and he builds nice kits.

I have installed and used one on my DSM personally (in past ofcourse) and it was very effective. It takes a little tuning, but once you get it down it fuggin rocks. My hoobs switch activated nozzle at ~14psi, and at the time I was running 19-20psi on 91 pump in Arizona summer with NO problems at all. My car simply hauled *** (56trim and 660's btw).

Dont count on the injection really cooling down the intake charge, just realize that you will basically be running (when mixed properly) 108+ octane everytime that hobbs switch gives the go.

And yes as you mention recirc is an absolute must for obvious reasons! It is very much worth it though!

Very nice kits, nice guy and good customer service. Propane is a very nice alternative to alky or water and it is quite cheap. I like water injection to, but the propane is really nice and lasts.

[Structure240sx]

if you read the new thread i jsut made, you will see that i just put an mdm techdom on my car and im onyl seeing 14-17degrees of timing under full load. im tryin to get it on a completely stock 240 to compare

[Structure240sx]

hey WD, on that propan kit you mentioned. it does say how using an open BOV isnt a great idea. i was thinking though what if you took off the throttle body and tapped the nozzle for the proped right behing it onto the intake manifold? as low as possible pointing up? so when the throttle closes the exccess propane shouldnt be able to get pass the throttle plate.

[WDRacing]

I was thinking of somthing along those lines as well.

[Structure240sx]

awesome, im one step closer to reaching the god like being of WD.