Why Nissan NEEDS an Affordable RWD Sports Car

[jbracy7]

Nissan has heard our pleas,the 2014 240z is a green light. We just have to wait a yr, awd,cvt standard.Rwd, truck transmission

[AZhitman]

I said it before - 2014 cars are already slated. I've seen no reliable sources saying anything is confirmed.

[float_6969]

Something I wish car companies would do to cut costs is stop having cars run these obnoxiously huge wheels. They make sport tires in 15's, pretty good sport tires too, go back to that. They'd be cutting costs while cutting rotational mass and unsprung weight, win/win.

I was just thinking about this today! Wasn't running a really small wheel popular in the SSCA back in the early 90's for just that reason?

[flohtingPoint]

Something I wish car companies would do to cut costs is stop having cars run these obnoxiously huge wheels. They make sport tires in 15's, pretty good sport tires too, go back to that. They'd be cutting costs while cutting rotational mass and unsprung weight, win/win.

I was just thinking about this today! Wasn't running a really small wheel popular in the SSCA back in the early 90's for just that reason?

Popular now too. You wanna always have the lowest rotational mass/unsprung weight possible without sacrificing lateral grip (tire width). Some Street Prepared cars run 13's with 255's on them, a lot run 15's with 275's. Bias ply's only go up to 16's IIRC, so the mod cars are limited to up to that if they want to run a non-radial.

The big brake stuff is ridiculous also, a lot of road cars out there these days have brakes WAY too big for what they require (some of this is because of the ridiculous wheel they run). Enough with big a** brakes. This is not to say that the brakes should be super tiny, but jeez, some middle ground here would be nice. Over kill on this is also killing gas mileage, and upping cost of cars.

[mechanicalmoron]

No one PREFERS a MacPherson, LOL! But for the sake of cost, I would accept it.

You can do DWB and have it still be fairly inexpensive and move mass lower on the chassis, Chevy has been doing it for quite some time now, you'd just have to accept a transverse leafspring. Heck, you can even adjust the ride height in stock format and dial in a decent amount of camber.

Something I wish car companies would do to cut costs is stop having cars run these obnoxiously huge wheels. They make sport tires in 15's, pretty good sport tires too, go back to that. They'd be cutting costs while cutting rotational mass and unsprung weight, win/win.

They now have ads (I'm thinking for the camry, specifically) that talk about alloy wheels as a big buying point, because "guys like them", not because they do anything.

They make cars look lower and make wheels bigger, and people who care about show will gravitate towards those cars, no matter how much go they have. They can charge a little bit more, and still have a competitive edge at the dealership.

Aftermarket wants big wheels because people with cash to burn buy big wheels, and just like other suspension stuff, and making cars look lower and such, the new market follows the aftermarket money. They can also limit you more with the aftermarket (meaning that they get that money on the purchase) with designs that do things like wrap around some of the bottom of the wheel to limit size, etc.

[krash]

No one PREFERS a MacPherson, LOL! But for the sake of cost, I would accept it.

You can do DWB and have it still be fairly inexpensive and move mass lower on the chassis, Chevy has been doing it for quite some time now, you'd just have to accept a transverse leafspring. Heck, you can even adjust the ride height in stock format and dial in a decent amount of camber.

Something I wish car companies would do to cut costs is stop having cars run these obnoxiously huge wheels. They make sport tires in 15's, pretty good sport tires too, go back to that. They'd be cutting costs while cutting rotational mass and unsprung weight, win/win.

I agree with everything. Heck, the older civics had double wishbone suspension. The wheel thing is also dumb. I mean it looks cool, but if we could cut costs there and put it into something useful that would be cooler.

[float_6969]

Popular now too. You wanna always have the lowest rotational mass/unsprung weight possible without sacrificing lateral grip (tire width). Some Street Prepared cars run 13's with 255's on them, a lot run 15's with 275's. Bias ply's only go up to 16's IIRC, so the mod cars are limited to up to that if they want to run a non-radial.

The big brake stuff is ridiculous also, a lot of road cars out there these days have brakes WAY too big for what they require (some of this is because of the ridiculous wheel they run). Enough with big a** brakes. This is not to say that the brakes should be super tiny, but jeez, some middle ground here would be nice. Over kill on this is also killing gas mileage, and upping cost of cars.

I agree on the brakes as well. I've had multiple people ask me "why didn't you go Z32 brakes?". Because I don't need it. I cooked the stock brakes a few times with good pads, upgraded to Q45 fronts and haven't cooked them since (although I do need a bigger rear brake as the bias is off now).

[Rev_D21]

The minitruck crowd always tells me I need to go with bigger wheels and more low. I am an avid reader of Classic Motorsports magazine which is where my inspiration comes from. I run 15" Fronty wheels for that reason. I prefer the look too.

[Bubba1]

[I agree on the brakes as well. I've had multiple people ask me "why didn't you go Z32 brakes?". Because I don't need it. I cooked the stock brakes a few times with good pads, upgraded to Q45 fronts and haven't cooked them since (although I do need a bigger rear brake as the bias is off now).

I'm much less offended by people upgrading their brakes than people red painting their stock calipers (and even rear brake drums) to give the appearance they upgraded their brakes. That looks really cheezy.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Something I wish car companies would do to cut costs is stop having cars run these obnoxiously huge wheels. They make sport tires in 15's, pretty good sport tires too, go back to that. They'd be cutting costs while cutting rotational mass and unsprung weight, win/win.

Fortunately, it SEEMS like some manufacturers may be catching on. Others still aren't, but some are. You might only be able to get 18 or 19 inch wheels on your Maxima, but the ATS comes with 17'' wheels stock, and it's a luxury car.

The other thing I hate about huge wheels is that tire cost goes up a LOT as wheel size increases a little. 245-45-17s are WAY cheaper than 245-45-18s. Why on earth would I want to pay more for tires that don't DO more? And I ran 15'' tires on the Maxima, and on the Q in the winter. I could put a whole SET of four tires on either car for the price of ONE 245-45-18 tire. It easily costs my dad $1200 to shoe his Maxima with decent tires. I can do the same on the LS8 for under $800!

Bias ply's only go up to 16's IIRC, so the mod cars are limited to up to that if they want to run a non-radial.

WHOA...wait a minute. Why would anyone WANT to drive on bias-ply tires? I've never had the "opportunity" to do so myself, but my understanding is feedback, road-feel, and general handling are all poorer with them.

[flohtingPoint]

Something I wish car companies would do to cut costs is stop having cars run these obnoxiously huge wheels. They make sport tires in 15's, pretty good sport tires too, go back to that. They'd be cutting costs while cutting rotational mass and unsprung weight, win/win.

Fortunately, it SEEMS like some manufacturers may be catching on. Others still aren't, but some are. You might only be able to get 18 or 19 inch wheels on your Maxima, but the ATS comes with 17'' wheels stock, and it's a luxury car.

The other thing I hate about huge wheels is that tire cost goes up a LOT as wheel size increases a little. 245-45-17s are WAY cheaper than 245-45-18s. Why on earth would I want to pay more for tires that don't DO more? And I ran 15'' tires on the Maxima, and on the Q in the winter. I could put a whole SET of four tires on either car for the price of ONE 245-45-18 tire. It easily costs my dad $1200 to shoe his Maxima with decent tires. I can do the same on the LS8 for under $800!

Cost of "performance" tires for my car in the sizes I run r-compounds in are nearly as much as my r-comps. Car companies can knock a good chunk of money off with brake and wheel/tire size, especially if they're building gutless cars like the FRS, that wheeze/cough and lurch forward like a 20 year smoker when you press the "go" pedal.

Bias ply's only go up to 16's IIRC, so the mod cars are limited to up to that if they want to run a non-radial.

WHOA...wait a minute. Why would anyone WANT to drive on bias-ply tires? I've never had the "opportunity" to do so myself, but my understanding is feedback, road-feel, and general handling are all poorer with them.

Float asked an SCCA related question about wheel size, the bias ply's were in reference to that. The r-compound tires we run (Hoosier A6's), are still radials (have to be radials to compete in a lot of classes). Mod car classes dont have this restriction, so they may run full blown race qualifying tires (bias ply).

[addicted4life]

Anyone else hear about this car? An Infiniti RWD concept
http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/Infi ... 2013-02-22

[Ace2cool]

Yeah, they won't build it, and it certainly doesn't look cheap.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Anyone else hear about this car? An Infiniti RWD concept
http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/Infi ... 2013-02-22

It's a hybrid. So it MAY happen as a green-publicity stunt. But it'd probably be low production numbers and insanely expensive. It's mid-engine, which means it'd be a 100% one-off and couldn't be based on any existing model, even the GTR.

[mechanicalmoron]

ehh mid-generator....

Even if they built it, I don't think an aluminium/carbon fiber electric super-ish-car has anything to do with this thread.

[addicted4life]

Figured it was half a step, if anything, towards a rwd sports car.



After all, it is a concept. It won't get built but maybe down the road a similar much cheaper rwd will go into production.

[Rev_D21]

Anyone else hear about this car? An Infiniti RWD concept
http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/Infi ... 2013-02-22

It's a hybrid. So it MAY happen as a green-publicity stunt. But it'd probably be low production numbers and insanely expensive. It's mid-engine, which means it'd be a 100% one-off and couldn't be based on any existing model, even the GTR.

I agree. It seems these days that if it can't be built on the Altima frame with a VQ then Nissan doesn't build it.

[AZhitman]

Seems it wouldn't be hard to pen something very similar to the 2nd-gen MR2, drop the 1.6 turbo in it, turn up the boost, and call it a day.

They'd sell. Seriously.

[mechanicalmoron]

For what it's worth, (as far as the electric thing goes) they could build an all-electric (or generator/battery hybrid) that wouldn't break the bank (the leaf's pretty cheap, if you wait for the right time and get all the incentives and such, I believe), and would be sporty.

They won't, but, just sayin'.

This crossed my mind because I was thinking about traction control and electric motors, and differentials. Because you could program the perfect differential simulator, that spins the wheels at the proper speeds to keep traction, but right after traction breaks (or before, if you program it as such) locks them. Active independent wheel control could do what the most expensive rally type active differential controls do, but for the price of a flash of the computer, or if they made it user-friendly, a simple touch of a screen.

I know they'd never do something so blatantly consumer-friendly, but you could also have a modular motor system, where you can choose to have two, or four, and choose to put them in the front or rear, and further, choose what are behaving how, when, through the computer. You could have AWD one second, and RWD the next, and FWD on the way home from the track.

Such a modification/tuning friendly car could blast electric stuff to the forefront of motorsports very quickly, too.

[float_6969]

Not to mention torque vectoring would be VERY easy in an AWD all electric vehicle. The issue with that setup is polar moment of inertia (I think that's the correct term). For handling, you want as much of the weight as close to the CG as possible. With an electric motor at each corn of the car, that MIGHT throw the balance of the car off a bit, but I'm not sure.

I'd be down for a twin leaf motor RWD vehicle.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Seems it wouldn't be hard to pen something very similar to the 2nd-gen MR2, drop the 1.6 turbo in it, turn up the boost, and call it a day.

They'd sell. Seriously.

Granted, both Mid4s were more Z-sized and VG-powered, but it's still not that big a stretch.

[AZhitman]

There ya go.

[Ace2cool]

I really really want one.

[addicted4life]

That's a Nissan?? Man I need to brush up on my history. Must have let an Italian loose in their offices for one day too long, it looks like a Ferrari F1!

[Razi]

Yep. I believe the very first ATESSA system was tested on that car then later adapted to the Skylines.

[float_6969]

wait, it was AWD too? Damn you Nissan for not building that!

[Rev_D21]

The Mid4, I love the second Gen. It looks so...right!

[Ace2cool]

wait, it was AWD too? Damn you Nissan for not building that!

Yep, mid engine, VG30DETT powered (and made 30 more hp stock than the Z32,) AWD, and beautiful to boot. Even a running, driving, production concept.

I've always wanted one.

THEY EVEN MADE COMMERCIALS FOR IT

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWzJSPUu-gI[/youtube]

[s14280zx]

Just two questions,(1) Are the people that made the decision not to produce the Mid 4 still working for Nissan? THEY SHOULDN'T BE!! (2) Are the geniuses that designed and built the Mid 4 still designing and building today's Nissans? THEY SHOULD BE!!

[Ace2cool]

Yes, and no.