Why my alignment results are different?

[nimmim]

I did two alignment this month for my 2007 Versa SL. I do the alignment A 2 days before I do the alignment B.

1) alignment A: a) before alignment b) after alignment 2) alignment B:

Is anyone could tell me that: why my alignment A->after alignment not equal alignment B's Initial? Thanks.

Modified by nimmim at 11:08 PM 2/22/2010
Modified by nimmim at 11:46 PM 2/22/2010

[Promise Land]

Did you use the same shop and same machine?

If no, the initial set-up between both machines can be slightly different. Even using the same machine, the set-up can be slightly different and will slightly affect the readings.

Why did you get two alignments just days apart??

[nimmim]

Because after I do the alignment A, they still not fixed my problem - still pulling aside. And due to other bad experience, so try to give another shop B a try.Since both shop are Nissan's service, I am sure they use the same machine(both have John Bean logo). In my opinion, if both shops use the same machine and procedure, it should get the identical result (at least the difference is very minimal) but not like this..After shop A do the alignment, shop B say the toe is out.It is somehow confusing, which shop is correct?

BTW, Do you have any idea how my rear toe is so out of spec?As the rear axel is non-adjustable, so enless the car has hit something (but I am the first hand owner and never has a big accident), the normal daily driving should not make the to change so large.Does that imply it might be a defect when manufactured?

[Promise Land]

Because after I do the alignment A, they still not fixed my problem - still pulling aside.

Yep, I can see why. On alignment B (initial), the toe measurements are different. negative are toward the center of the car, positive is toward the outside. So They are both pulling in the same direction, left. They should both be positive or negative to counteract each other.

Since both shop are Nissan's service, I am sure they use the same machine (both have John Bean logo).

Yes and no. I don't know if they have a requirement to buy a specific machine, set by Nissan standard. Do you know what models both places use? Normally, I'd say compare to the same machine only (this is what we do for horsepower dynamometers).

In my opinion, if both shops use the same machine and procedure, it should get the identical result (at least the difference is very minimal) but not like this..

Yeah, definitely not right.

After shop A do the alignment, shop B say the toe is out.It is somehow confusing, which shop is correct?

I think shop B is ok. The maximum on the toe is 0.08" (so 0.09" is out of range). Shop A has a difference of 0.07" on the front, which will make it pull to one side.

BTW, Do you have any idea how my rear toe is so out of spec? Does that imply it might be a defect when manufactured?

Actually, nominal measurement is +0.118" (+/-0.158"), so both are within spec tolerances. They are not adjustable without a shim, which your alignment shop could install if you wanted them to.

Here is where I am getting my numbers.http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM/ve...d.pdf

[nimmim]

Thanks. And the following was my alignment report witch I did it on 1 year ago in Shop A. And I compare it with Shop B their rear toe number seems similar. So it is confuing me.

Shop A alignment on 2009:


Modified by nimmim at 7:52 PM 2/23/2010

[Promise Land]

What is confusing between them?

[nimmim]

Let's just pay more attention on rear toe values.As we all know, the rear toe is non-adjustable, so if the car didn't hit anything and just for normal daily driving, the rear toe would not change too much.And here are is the fact1) When I did my first Alignment on March 2009 in Shop A, the rear toe is 0.01" and 0.10"2) And just about now, I have 2nd alignment also in Shop A, but the rear toe became to 0.03" and 0.09".3) Then I had another alignment on shop B, but the rear toe just back to 0.01" and 0.10".

So Is the toe change (in 2) due to rear beam bend or other components wore out? Maybe, but how do you explain the result in 3?Same machine and same store has different result in 1 year.And another shop can get identical result as the firstshop in 1 yr ago?Is that just a aligner issue? Or maybe there is something more wrong in my Versa?And another thing, I would like to point out if the front toe.Despite to the initial setup could cause minor different, but I don't think if after the car aligned by one shop, maybe the reading will be slightly different, it should not like this, Shop B just say my front toe is complete out. It sounds like either shop A or B is wrong.

Regard to the rear toe, although it is within the tolerence, but as right side is about at the max tolerence, shop B's technician suspected the car must have a accident or even a defect at the begining (as there is no accident on this car), normal daily driving should never make the rear toe like this.

[Promise Land]

Is the toe change (in 2) due to rear beam bend or other components wore out? Maybe, but how do you explain the result in 3?

I don't think we could answer this question without looking at the car, or possibly talking to the shop(s) that did the alignment. I'd say ask that of shop A and see what they say.

And another shop can get identical result as the firstshop in 1 yr ago?

I don't know the set-up variance of the machine, but maybe it's just coincidence? How does it feel to you driving it? Does it feel odd or are you analyzing it by the numbers alone? Your tire wear will be able to tell you if it's really off because they will wear poorly.

Shop B just say my front toe is complete out. It sounds like either shop A or B is wrong.

Based on the readings, it looks like A is off. "Completely out" sounds a little too dramatic. I'd agree by the reading you will notice it pull to one side (left).

Regard to the rear toe, although it is within the tolerence, but as right side is about at the max tolerence, shop B's technician suspected the car must have a accident or even a defect at the begining.

When it leaves the factory, the toe (front and rear) will be within the ranges set by Nissan. If they are on the edge, they are within the spec range. If they are out, they are out (i.e. a defect) and should be corrected before it leaves the factory.

I would trust a technician's suspicion opinion as much as it's worth to you. It sounds like a broad generalization to me, not a basis on fact.

[nimmim]

So it is normal a Versa leave the factory with reat toe 0.01" and 0.10" by Nissan? Is that what you mean?

Actually, nominal measurement is +0.118" (+/-0.158"), so both are within spec tolerances. They are not adjustable without a shim, which your alignment shop could install if you wanted them to.

And Do need install a shim? If my rear toe is normal?

Modified by nimmim at 4:37 PM 2/24/2010
Modified by nimmim at 1:18 AM 2/25/2010

[Promise Land]

I couldn't tell you what is normal variation on the rear toe out the factory the Versa is made in. They will make sure it is within the specifications before it is shipped to a dealer.

And if it's not wearing your tires funny, or driving poorly, I'd leave the rear toe alone and not worry about a shim.

[toebits]

If Mr. Nimmim went to two Nissan Dealerships (Shop A and Shop B), why do they have different alignment specifications?

For Shop B, the Caster-Left is supposed to be with in 3.55 degress and 5.25 degrees. Shop A's spec is 3.9 degrees and 5.4 degrees.

When it comes to getting your car aligned, will these differences affect the intended results?

[Promise Land]

]If Mr. Nimmim went to two Nissan Dealerships (Shop A and Shop B), why do they have different alignment specifications?

I don't know. Perhaps the chose two different model years? They are slightly different.

When it comes to getting your car aligned, will these differences affect the intended results?

The goal should be the center of the range, not the extremes. If it was on the extremes and the shop left it that way, it's possible that it may affect the way it pulls (or doesn't pull) when you drive.