Why McCain is more of the same.

[rn79870]

It's absolutely amazing how many people respond to comments regarding McCain being McSame. It's so unbelievably easy to document this with a minute or two of google-fu. The right wing anarchist (yes, I said anarchist) here really get upset about McSame comments.

Bush Middle East policies. (copied by McCain)Arab experts say a win by US presidential hopeful John McCain brings no change to Bush's policies blamed for destabilizing the Mideast. Mohamed al-Sayed Said of Ahram Centre for Political and Strategic Studies said: "The first time McCain started to catch attention was when he visited ... Israel and committed himself to the regime and not pressuring it."

"This confirms the natural inclination of Arabs to think that whatever the next administration is, it will be a tool of the Israelis," he noted.

Bush Oil policies (copied by McCain)Campaign contributions from oil industry executives to Sen. John McCain rose dramatically in the last half of June, after the senator from Arizona made a high-profile split with environmentalists and reversed his opposition to the federal ban on offshore drilling.

Bush: Economy Is Inherently Strong. “I believe we can find common ground to get something done that’s big enough, effective enough so that an economy that is inherently strong gets a boost to make sure that this uncertainty doesn’t translate into more economic woes for our workers and small business people,” Bush said in the Cabinet Room. [Associated Press, 1/23/08]

McCain: Underpinnings of Economy are Strong. “I still believe our fundamental underpinnings of our economy are strong, but it’s obvious that we are facing challenges which will require actions such as the Federal Reserve took today.” [“Lou Dobbs Tonight,” CNN, 1/22/08]

(yep strong for those making over 5 million a year and having 7 dinner tables to sit at. It ain't that strong for me. )

Bush: Make Tax Cuts Permanent. During his weekly radio address, Bush said, “To keep our economy growing, we need to ensure that you keep more of what you earn, and Congress needs to make the tax cuts permanent.” [Presidential Weekly Radio Address, 1/7/06]

McCain: Make Bush Tax Cuts Permanent. “I think it’s very important that we make the Bush tax cuts permanent. I voted to make them permanent twice already.… And if we don’t make the tax cuts permanent, then they will experience what amounts to a tax increase.” [Republican Presidential Debate, MSNBC, 1/24/08]

McCain Voted for Tax Cuts for the Wealthiest Americans at the Expense of Working Families. McCain voted for a $60 billion tax cut bill benefiting families with incomes $100,000 or higher. The tax cuts would follow equally drastic cuts in spending on programs vital to working families. [S. 2020, Vote #26, 11/18/05]

Bush: Fix Social Security Through Private Accounts. “As we fix Social Security, we also have the responsibility to make the system a better deal for younger workers, and the best way to reach that goal is through voluntary personal retirement accounts.” [President Bush’s State of the Union Address, 1/28/08]

McCain: Only Solution to Fix Social Security Is Private Accounts. “There is only one solution if Social Security commitments are to be honored without breaking the backs of the next generation: bold reform— genuine reform—that allows workers to invest some of their Social Security savings, privately, in higher-yielding accounts.” [Cato Institute]

McCain Voted for Bush’s Social Security Privatization Plan. In 2006, McCain voted for the Social Security Reserve Fund. The GOP proposal would shift Social Security’s annual surpluses into a reserve account that will be converted into risky private accounts. [SCR 83, Vote# 68, 3/16/06]

Bush: Outsourcing Makes Sense. In 2004, the president’s economic report to Congress said, “When a good or service is produced more cheaply abroad, it makes more sense to import it than to make or provide it domestically.” [InformationWeek.com, accessed 2/26/08]

McCain: Global Economy Results in Outsourcing. “I’m not going to bring back a lot of these jobs. I can’t because with a global economy they’re headed the other way,” McCain said. [Technology Daily, 12/4/07]

McCain Supported Bush Administration’s Plan to Privatize and Outsource Federal Jobs. McCain voted to support Bush’s efforts to privatize federal jobs. The Bush administration has led a major effort to outsource and privatize hundreds of thousands of federal jobs, including those of 350 workers at Walter Reed Army Medical Center. [H.R. 5631, Vote# 234, 9/6/06]

(this is what you want, a president that wants to outsource your future?)

Move On criticizes the Bush/McCain Siamese twin as 4 more years of GW's failed policies. McCain's party responds with the tired "who has experience" as if there is any relevance in that comment, given that McCain's experience seems to be copying his predecessor. I'm surprised it didn't include a reference to Hanoi.

Today, John McCain released a serious ad outlining his vision for the future of the nation," said Republican National Committee spokesman Alex Conant. "Contrast that to Barack Obama's supporters, who issued a ridiculous ad that is backward looking and belittles the seriousness of this election. It's clear MoveOn.org does not want this election to be about who has the experience and judgment necessary to lead us into the future."

Yes folks, squirm, snivel, gripe or attack, but don't firmly bury your head in the sand when it comes to more of the same.

[HashiriyaS14]

The funniest thing is that McCain was NOT really allied with the Bush/Cheney administration on many of these issues back in 2000.

He has moved to the right in order to secure his parties' nomination.

Anyway, I fully support the privatization of Social Security, or at least the ability of people to opt for it personally. I *know* I would be a better steward of my own money than the US Government could ever be.

Additionally, I do support some outsourcing, particularly ongoing and upscaled outsourcing of military requirements to the private sector, although I think it needs to be handled differently.

That said, the bottom line is that other than with Iraq, the vast majority of the GOP constituency thinks that Bush is doing a good job and thus it is wise for McCain to adopt similar policies, as he has done in the last few years to make himself electable.

I'm not going to vote for the guy, but that doesn't mean he's a dummy. He's a pretty smart politician. I would've voted for him if he hadn't adopted the right's misguided socially conservative agenda.

[audtatious]

Bush Middle East policies. (copied by McCain)What would you have him change? Yank the troops and put the country in turmoil? Iraq is being won and their Gov is starting to take over day to day's, why make a change? Oh, because McCain made some comment about 100 years that you and others continually paint within a context to "fit your bill of goods"? Come on Bob, even if you don't believe we should have been there in the first place you can't be for a full retreat which would allow the country to be overrun with terrorists and other aggressive countries. If you force that issue then the blood of the innocents who die are on your hands instead of the hands of the terrorists who are bombing their own people today.

Bush Oil policies (copied by McCain)Where were oil prices before McCain "changed his stance"? I don't mind any politician to change their stance based upon a change in the economy. I would expect it (unlike some who stick to their guns and say we have lost in Iraq and the surge has never worked). Also, why do we want to rely on foreign oil dependance when some of the countries we get our oil from are anti-US?

McCain: Underpinnings of Economy are Strong. And? Show me where the economy has not shown growth each year under Bush?

Quote »(yep strong for those making over 5 million a year and having 7 dinner tables to sit at. It ain't that strong for me. )[/quote]Again, out of context of what he was saying and you know it.

I see you quoted moveon.org in some of your ramblings. That right there makes any further comment worthless on my part and I should start ignoring you just as I should start ignoring Telco. Time for NICO to implement a proper ignore list.

[Cold_Zero]

Hash,With rampent Polemic attacks in this forum, I appreciate you being honest and objective.bud

[AZhitman]

Seems we should start diverting some of the funds earmarked for AIDS awareness in Africa to combat the dreaded Cut-Paste Plague that seems to have gained a foothold here...



p.s. As a Capitalist, I have no problem with outsourcing. In fact, look into the USCIS's H1-B Visa program, something I'm actively involved in managing for my own 9-to-5 gig.

[rn79870]

Um, do you have anything to say about the 87%(some sources) to 95% (other sources) of votes McCain cast in favor of GW's policies?

[Cold_Zero]

With John McCain being more of the same of George Bush and Obama being more of the same of Jimmy Carter. I guess you have to ask yourself:Did I fare better in the late 1970's under Jimmy Carter with back to back to back double digit inflation, interest rates in double digits, out of control tax rates and gas rationing? Only to be told, wear a sweater and that adversity is good for your character? Where the United States Military was laughed at by our allies and enemies for being weak, which nearly brought us to the brink of war with a Russian pre-emptive nuclear attack. Our country experiencing soaring crime rates, a proliferation of drug abuse and massive urban decay in our major urban centers. Or,Did have I fared better in the early to mid 2000's where Al Qaeda has not attacked our soil since 9-11, where we took down the Taliban control Afghanistan so that they would not train and export people hell bent on killing us and yes invaded a country that appeared to be a threat to us but really did not have WMDs. Where bigger tax cuts were created to neutralize the marriage penalty, to give you back more of your money for donating to charity, deducting your home mortgage and student loan interest and fees (1098E) and taking care of your kids. Where we received not one, not two but three tax rebate checks that put more of your cold hard cash that paid to the IRS, back into your pockets.

Taking a look back, I have to say my family faired much better under 8 years of G W Bush than it did of Jimmy Carter. I am sorry guys, Obama is just as nieve and experienced as Jimmy Carter was and I am not ready to repeat the failed liberal and socialist policies of a failed Democratic agenda that controlled the Congress and White House back during the late 1970's. No way, no how and not on my watch.bud

[rn79870]

I would say Obama more closely aligns with Clinton than Carter. I had not heard the Carter analogy before. (and everyone knows it takes a Clinton to clean up after a Bush ).

[Cold_Zero]

No offense, regardless of the perception they are trying to create during the DNC convention, Obama's policies and Clinton's policies really are not reconcilable.

I know it behooves the Dems to portray Obama as the second coming of (Jesus, JFK or Bill) in order to secure votes. But it a bit of a stretch.

[rn79870]

But this is about the overwhelming similarities between Bush and McCain. They could have been cut from the same mold politically.

[Cold_Zero]

I understand that GW Bush has been blamed for Katrina hitting New Orleans, Global Warming, the 9-11 attacks and FEMA Concentration Camps in Beach Grove, Indiana.

I just happen to think that things have not been all that bad and to be honest, the Democratically controlled Congress mad our perosonal lives a whole lot harder.

But then again, GW Bush gave us Supreme Court Justices like John Roberts and Alito. So if McCain promises to nominate justices like Scalia, Thomas, Roberts and Alito, then he has my vote.

[HashiriyaS14]

No offense, regardless of the perception they are trying to create during the DNC convention, Obama's policies and Clinton's policies really are not reconcilable.

I would like to see Obama adopt more of a Clintonian economic policy, that's for certain.

From a social and international affairs standpoint however, I think they're pretty similar, particularly the latter.

Despite coming from a Gubernatorial background and having very little international affairs experience, I thought that Clinton was actually a pretty good President in that regard. There was that bungle in Somalia, although the actual helicopter incident in Mogadishu isn't directly attributable to him, IMO.

[Cold_Zero]

No it was his knee jerk reaction to US Army Rangers being dragged through the streets fo Mog. That and his administrations failure to approve the air support that the Army requested. You can also lump into Clinton's list of debacles the invasion of Kosovo and the bombing of Belgrade.

[AZhitman]

[rn79870]

Bud, wasn't the bombing and the invasion of Kosovo a NATO operation? An operation that the US got out of in less than 10, 100, 1000 years.

[Cold_Zero]

As of last year we had US troops based in Kosovo as a part of NATOs KFOR. So what we are going on 10 years of operations in Kosovo? Btw Bob, we are still in Germany, Korea and the Sinai (MFO), if you hadn't heard.

[telcoman]

Seems we should start diverting some of the funds earmarked for AIDS awareness in Africa to combat the dreaded Cut-Paste Plague that seems to have gained a foothold here...



p.s. As a Capitalist, I have no problem with outsourcing. In fact, look into the USCIS's H1-B Visa program, something I'm actively involved in managing for my own 9-to-5 gig.

How about health care for children?

You can't be against the children are you?

Or should we just increase spending for war, guns, & weapons?

If McCain by chance should win he's going to say teh eff bomb!!!1!!!eleven!! the children.After all they are not his

Telcoman

[AZhitman]

How is this about health care?

I've edited out the 6 pages of copied / pasted text that was not relevant to the topic at hand.

Your comments (although irrelevant as well) remain.

My post was about outsourcing.

I'd reply to your post with facts, but you seem to run away from a thread once your position gets proven inaccurate, so I'll pass on this one.

Back on topic.

[HashiriyaS14]

No it was his knee jerk reaction to US Army Rangers being dragged through the streets fo Mog. That and his administrations failure to approve the air support that the Army requested. You can also lump into Clinton's list of debacles the invasion of Kosovo and the bombing of Belgrade.

Well, I was (and am) quite the hawk on Kosovo. I thought that we should have unilaterally lifted the arms embargo and given the Bosnians/Albanians a good chance to defend themselves. The Europeans didn't want to do this as they couldn't bring themselves to aid the muslims (Albanians), even though they were being exterminated, which I think was despicable.

I thought that from a PR/political standpoint he bungled it a bit, but I definitely supported us being there and kicking the shxt out of the Serbs.

In regards to Somalia, the one big goof was that we tried to apprehend/kill Aidid in daylight hours, which wasn't something that Clinton really directly signed off on. He was under the impression (AFAIK) that it was to be a night-time raid, when instead the military decided it was a good idea to go into a crowded area in broad daylight with helis and some got shot down, with ensuing chaos on all sides. I'll admit that I'm not an expert on this particular conflict though, so I'm not going to present myself as one.

[rn79870]

I see you quoted moveon.org in some of your ramblings. That right there makes any further comment worthless on my part and I should start ignoring you just as I should start ignoring Telco. Time for NICO to implement a proper ignore list.

Actually Moveon was a small part (maybe 10 or 15%) of my sources. I understand your desire to ignore the the logical insinuation that the Bush/McCain plan is nothing more than a new name for a failed policy. Don't take it out on the messenger, there are quite a few people who are rallying behind the change promised by the fresh candidate. Who knows, there might be enough to elect him.

[audtatious]

Logical Insinuation? They are both kinda sorta republicans and you don't think they are going to have some stances together?

Guess what, I don't care if McCain voted 100% with Bush. I don't care if McCain is a cloned version of Bush. Hell, if Bush could run another term I would vote for HIM again before I voted for Obama.

You know, maybe I should do a similar comparison with Obama and his wife compared with Ayres and his wife to show that he is 100% an anti-American terrorlst.

[Cold_Zero]

Well, I was (and am) quite the hawk on Kosovo. I thought that we should have unilaterally lifted the arms embargo and given the Bosnians/Albanians a good chance to defend themselves. The Europeans didn't want to do this as they couldn't bring themselves to aid the muslims (Albanians), even though they were being exterminated, which I think was despicable.

A couple of things. As you can tell I do not support the NATO bombing campaign, the invasion and the subsequent recognition of Kosovo as an independent State. It is funny that you mention the arms embargo that really applied to Bosnia and Herzegovina. Make no mistake even with the embargo in place; the Middle East was still shipping weapons to the Bosniacs. I personally would not have support the KLA a terrorlst organization based in Albania to cause problems in Kosovo. But seriously, I love how the west looks upon Serbia as being the only group that exterminated or committed atrocities in the region. No One was innocent in the civil war. From what my cousin David observed in his years working in Mostar was the entire country was 'wired for war.' Also, it was Matt's (one of Repoman's and my friend) job as a part of SFOR to go door to door and ask people if they wanted to turn in any weapons. Some of the stories of how much **** was hidden after the war is pretty impressive.

Quote »I thought that from a PR/political standpoint he bungled it a bit, but I definitely supported us being there and kicking the shxt out of the Serbs.[/quote]It also didnt help that NATO bombed the **** out of the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade and created a fire storm of controversy with their bombing campaign. It really put into doubt what NATO was targeting and the competence level. The NATO response to the fallout was not handled well at all. I really dont understand why you and this country hates the Serbian people so much. Remember it was the Croatians that backed the Nazis during WWII and it was the Serbians that fought against them.

Quote »In regards to Somalia, the one big goof was that we tried to apprehend/kill Aidid in daylight hours, which wasn't something that Clinton really directly signed off on. He was under the impression (AFAIK) that it was to be a night-time raid, when instead the military decided it was a good idea to go into a crowded area in broad daylight with helis and some got shot down, with ensuing chaos on all sides. I'll admit that I'm not an expert on this particular conflict though, so I'm not going to present myself as one.[/quote]There were a lot of fundamental problems that went along with the snatch and grab operations that we used to capture Aidid and his cadre. It wasn’t so much of going in during daylight hours as much as the amount of time it took to extract. During the day things were pretty sedate most of the warring gangs chewed Khat through out the day and at night they would be wired and ready to rock and roll. Also, using the same ingress and egress routes consistently was a bad move. It doesn’t take the enemy long to figure out your patterns and how to react to them. Also, we totally misjudged from an intelligence standpoint the Al Qaeda presence in Somalia and their training of the rival gangs. We came to find out, much later after 9-11 that there was a link between Al Qaeda and the shooting down of our Black Hawk helicopters. Finally, and this is something that Bowden made a big deal about in his book, was the fact that US forces requested the use of an AC-130 gunship for support. It was denied by the Clinton Administration because they didn’t want any fall out from the gunship putting a 105mm round through someone’s house. The Administration being totally unaware of the precision and the capabilities that this platform possesses to find, target and eliminate the enemy. I was more in favor of using TOW missiles to target Aidid and kill him. We came close a couple of times with this methodology and killed a bunch of his cabinet doing so.

[rn79870]

.

You know, maybe I should do a similar comparison with Obama and his wife compared with Ayres and his wife to show that he is 100% an anti-American terrorlst.

If I were a republican I'd go to great extremes to keep the wives out of it. Cindy's closet isn't without a few large skeletons in it.

[AZhitman]

Every skeleton she has, BO has a matching one.

The wives are irrelevant, they don't make policy. Something Billary should have reiterated to his wife every morning when she woke up... then again, his credibility in his own house was shot.

[HashiriyaS14]

A couple of things. As you can tell I do not support the NATO bombing campaign, the invasion and the subsequent recognition of Kosovo as an independent State. It is funny that you mention the arms embargo that really applied to Bosnia and Herzegovina. Make no mistake even with the embargo in place; the Middle East was still shipping weapons to the Bosniacs. I personally would not have support the KLA a terrorlst organization based in Albania to cause problems in Kosovo.

But seriously, I love how the west looks upon Serbia as being the only group that exterminated or committed atrocities in the region. No One was innocent in the civil war. From what my cousin David observed in his years working in Mostar was the entire country was 'wired for war.' Also, it was Matt's (one of Repoman's and my friend) job as a part of SFOR to go door to door and ask people if they wanted to turn in any weapons. Some of the stories of how much **** was hidden after the war is pretty impressive.

It also didnt help that NATO bombed the **** out of the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade and created a fire storm of controversy with their bombing campaign. It really put into doubt what NATO was targeting and the competence level. The NATO response to the fallout was not handled well at all. I really dont understand why you and this country hates the Serbian people so much. Remember it was the Croatians that backed the Nazis during WWII and it was the Serbians that fought against them.

First off, I don't "hate" the Serbian people, and I recognize that it's generally a very messy region with a lot of bad history and that no one was really objectively in the right. I think that Milosevic, Karadzic, and Mladic were despicable human beings, but I know better (as most rational people do) than to apply my feelings towards them to the entire Serb population.

That said, at the time, the Bosnian Serb forces were methodically exterminating the ethnic (muslim) Albanians. There were NOT, as far as I'm aware, any widespread military-led campaigns of genocide that went in the other direction. What happened in the second world war is immaterial, if someone is practicing genocide NOW, it must be stopped NOW.

When these guys lined up thousands of men and boys in fields and shot them without any sort of fight, they surrendered their sovereignty and territorial integrity to the judgement of NATO and the international community. When you initiate genocide, all bets are off.

The Europeans were hesitant to stand up for Muslims since Christians were the ones exterminating them. It was weak and abhorrent.

EDIT: I have no comments on what you said about Somalia, as I have no doubts your knowledge base on that conflict is considerably deeper than mine. It might be on Kosovo also, but I still stand by my conviction that anyone who initiates genocide is voiding their own right to exist.

[audtatious]

If I were a republican I'd go to great extremes to keep the wives out of it. Cindy's closet isn't without a few large skeletons in it.

At least Cindy isn't a racist hate monger. Then again the more hateful you are against the general US public and whites then the more you are welcomed by the democratic party.

[rn79870]

Certainly, being a thieving drug addict home wrecker are good qualities for a first lady. Right...

[AZhitman]

At least Cindy isn't a racist hate monger. Then again the more hateful you are against the general US public and whites then the more you are welcomed by the democratic party.

I'd be eager to see Ms. Obama go into a poor White neighborhood and serve underprivileged White children, the way Ms. Mac has spent years doing charitable work for deformed kids in Africa, and clearing land mines in war-torn areas.

[audtatious]

Sure, because the Democratic party is all for helping druggies and supporting them except for Cindy (who used percocet and Vic's) or Rush (Vic's) or Bush (alcohol problem). You roll over and lick Obama's feet for admitting his drug use in high school and college which further shows the hypocricy of the democratic party.

I don't care that Obama did drugs in high school or college. You seem to revere him for admitting it. Yet, being two faced, you hold it against others that are in the rep party. Quite a double standard so you can feel good about your savior.

[rn79870]

You're hyperbole against Michelle is countered by a factual argument against Cindy. Like I said, this isn't a discussion a republican should look forward to starting.