Someone on another forum asked me if I would mind reposting this here. I said sure and even added some more to it
I bought my Z for road coarse tracking aside from getting me to and from work again etc. There's nothing about the car to indicate it's been built for drag racing. It doesn't have a solid rear axel, it has independant suspension. It comes from the factory with some negative camber setup on the wheels, the tire sizes are not exactly wide - especially the rears, the Track model comes with brembo brakes - who cares about brembos if you drag race? They just add weight. Why does the car have a 53/47 balance and why did they make such a big deal out of that? Why did nissan put the front and rear tower bars on the car? They knew many people would complain about the lack of trunk space because of the rear strut tower.
There's a few other misc things too, but these things all add up to road coarse driving. The car was designed to handle well, stop well, and perform well. A car like the new mustang was designed to mainly go straight really fast, though a lot of manufacturers these day are starting to branch their sports cars out a little from that so they handle at least ok. Of course you can make any car handle better, but there's no question the Z was meant to be well rounded and it is.
I did my $15k worth of NA mods and got about a 60whp gain. That's not TONS of power, especially for the money, but there's other things that were included in that $15k. I got a new radiator - it holds about 2.5 times the amount of fluid along with a performance thermostate, power steering cooler, differencial cooler, and racing brake fluid - why? because I live in AZ and the summers here are punishing. I don't want my car overheating in the summer on the track.
I got a 3.9 final drive and tilton clutch. I said I gained about 60whp. These are two major mods that don't show up on a dyno. If they did, it'd be like adding 60 more whp. The 3.9 gears add 10% more power to every gear (and lower my top speed by 10%) The tilton clutch takes away 30 lbs from the drivetrain. That's massive. Every lb you take off your drive train is like taking 7 lbs of dead weight off of the car - so that's like removing 210 lbs from the car. As you may know, approximately every 100 lb you remove from the car is like gaining .1 sec in quarter mile (until the car starts getting to be under 2700 or so lbs). So that single mod gained me a little over .2 sec in quarter mile. They add power across the entire power band, not just up top like headers, HF cats, or exhaust do, however they don't really ADD any real HP, just get you into the powerband faster
Let me state I do care about quarter mile and who doesn't? - it's a way to measure speed. It's not my primary concern though. I want my car to perform well as a total package.
So the 3.9 final drive and tilton serve as a way to push me into the rpms faster. My tachometer moves way faster than a stock Z and maybe even faster than a FI Z. I'm not making as much power in each gear as a FI Z however.
all my other mods, aside from giving me power all totalled up to a 100 lbs loss in curb weight. That's another .1 sec faster in 1/4 mile
I have a lot of misc parts that add a higher quality feel to the car like the stillen engine dampener, SS brake lines, front and rear sway bars, etc
Anyway, the key thing here is that I was going to need all these parts anyway one way or another with no matter what big power path I decide to go down later. I want to drive my car hard like a sports car was meant to be driven. And in that case I need those parts regardless.
I'm at a point where I can go in any direction for big power mods.
If I want a twin turbo I just have to sell my headers, tilton clutch, and final drive
If I want a supercharger I just sell my tilton clutch and final drive
If I want big nitrous, I sell my tilton clutch and final drive
If I decide to stay NA and get high compression pistons, really aggressive cams, and individual throttle bodies with a decent nitrous shot - again just sell the tilton clutch and maybe the final drive
There's pros and cons to each set up. It depends on what you want the car's strengths to be and how much of that power is seperated into track mode and street mode or if it drives the same on both. I have enough speeding tickets right now so in a way I don't need more power on the street.
whatever path I choose I'll have to revert my technosquare flashed ECU to their limited spec flash and get a standalone ECM to manage my timing and adjust to my parts.
selling parts isn't a big deal. People are happy to buy slightly used Z parts cause they're overpriced enough as is. I didn't go FI right off because IMO it's too early to tell what sort of results you'll get with engine reliability etc. People are blowing up engines with TT and SC kits and I'd rather spend big money on big power when I know all the kinks have been worked out and there's somewhat of a track record of knowledge and experience in the kits and the VQ35 engine and building it up to be bombproof. Right now it's starting to look like a lot of things have been figured out and there's companies starting to do core engine swaps with built up blocks.
I'm not going to be a pioneer in getting HP out of the Z. It's too expensive and risky. FI can work well for road coarses, but it can also become risky real quick if everything isn't just right so I chose the "safe" route and stayed NA
My next major mods are going to address handling, more cooling, safety, and keeping the engine happy, along with some looks mods - though even those mods are going to help with engine cooling, brake cooling, more downforce, and less drag not to mention it looking more aggressive. The stock Z look is really nice, but it is a little tame looking in a way don't you agree? It doesn't look like it's going to rip your head off, it looks like a sleek sporty looking car with a slightly happy looking disposition
I haven't picked what scenerio I want to do yet cause there's a lot of major parts still being developed so it's too soon to tell. But I'm confident that the parts I've chosen so far, and that parts (or similar) I'm getting ready to add are no brainer parts. I'm getting my money's worth from them now and in the long run.
When I'm DONE with my Z, I will have spent around $95-100k on my car total including the cost of the car. Yes that's extreme. Will it perform like a $100k car? Sure it will for the most part. In some ways maybe not, but I can't afford making 100k car payments right now and for some reason feel a little timid about modding one to become "mine"
The design of the Z looks like it could cost $100k. It's just a good looking car so I see no problem with people saying "dude why did you spend so much money on THAT crappy looking car?" See I would get that comment if I took an EVO or STI up to that level. But I really like the Z's design. If I was going for an insane car to build up over time, the EVO and STI would probably cost less than $100k. But no amount of money could make them look as good as a Z. And I knew sooner or later, I'd for sure want my car to look great and that's another reason why I chose to get a Z. My power goals eventually are 10's in the 1/4 mile
list of my mods are here:<http://www.geocities.com/sentry65/350z/mods.txt>
I first focust mainly power mods instead of handling because I wanted to get my car put together as a whole as much as possible with the power bolt ons and then I could in theory save on tuning costs. I've had to send my ECU back to technosquare 3 or 4 times now and I'm still 1-2 bars too lean so I'm really now considering getting an EMS and new fuel system and injectors and get my car dyno tuned properly (and gain some potential minor power and smoothness) Also, when doing bolt ons it becomes reletivly cheap to put on more parts because you're already taking all the stock stuff off anyway, it's no problem to put on a new part vs the stock part of something you chose not to change. The issue you might have with doing this route is stuff gets hard to troubleshoot because you weren't scientificly isolating specific mods to know what issues each one caused. My car did and still has a multiple cylinder misfire. I'm going to be addressing a few more parts to hopefully get rid of it (and maybe make slightly more power with it being cured)
I decided I'd live with the stock suspension and tires until my tires wear out. Nissan will replace your tires if they're feathering and you have less than (I forgot) 8 or 12k miles on them and 1/8 of tread left. Part of my next wave of spending is really going to address handling. New suspension, A arms and traction rods, wheels, tires, even slotted rotors. I have a new set of brake pads also waiting to mate up with some new rotors. Like before, it costs less to have all the stuff done at the same time since everything is already taken apart anyway. Doing all those handling mods (except rotors and pads) will cure tire feathering if you get an alignment. I don't care about feathering the crappy stock tires - nissan gives you free replacements. I do care about feathering MY OWN tires though.I'm doing things out of order from a lot of people. Many people want to go fast right now, and will find out that they overlooked something or things didn't go as planned and either their engine blew up, or their car would overheat in some way on a road coarse, or whatever. On many drag strips, if you are capable of running faster than 12's, you're required to have a rollbar or rollcage. Has that been factored into many people's budget? Often people wanting big power don't factor in a heavy duty carbon clutch or getting their parts jet hot coated.
The Z has only been out 2 or 3 years. It's just now starting to come out of it's baby stages as far as mods. Everyone wants FI, but there's a lot of NA potential on the horizon coming out. I did a dyno this morning and here in AZ my car pulled 281whp. If I had normal heat range spark plugs and wasn't running so lean, I could probalby get that up to 285-286whpon a dynojet which is on 91 octane here in AZ. If I was on the east coast, I'd be close to 300whp
I'm in for the long haul with the Z and don't want to jump the gun on go fast parts only to find if I had waited 5 months, something way better/safer would have come out.
My car on the street is pretty fast - I have a few speeding tickets on my record and my car is hard to drive slow because of my clutch and gearing. I'm not even bragging. When I try to drive conservativly I look at my digital speedometer and It'll say 43, then jump to 54 with nothing in between. I usually try got drive 1-5mph over the speed limit and unless I really focus on my driving am I able to do it. If I just drive by the feel of the car, I'd always be driving around 60 in a 45 zone. You don't want speeding tickets. I can only imagine getting major FI on a Z. My license wouldn't last long. So I'm really heavily considering waiting for the hardcore NA parts to come out and doing nitrous for drag racing. I don't think I'd really want that power on the street. It's too easy to go too fast as is.
I'm not trying to sell my way of modding, just explain it. I don't think it's the "best" way to go, but for me I think it is. Maybe someone might think about some things they never thought about other than they want a million hp.
Modified by sentry65 at 7:38 PM 4/26/2005
why I spent $15k and am going to spend more $ modding my Z
I've read that post on the "other" forum, it's great to see it here.
I really appreciate that writeup, you have the same goals as I do with my Z. Something I can track hard, and drive daily.
Thanks VERY much.
I'm eyeing that tilton clutch very hard. Saves weight, better shifting.. can't go wrong..
My first track event is in a few weeks and going to be on a stock Z.. should be fun..
Oh yea Im tossing some new tires and wheels..
I really appreciate that writeup, you have the same goals as I do with my Z. Something I can track hard, and drive daily.
Thanks VERY much.
I'm eyeing that tilton clutch very hard. Saves weight, better shifting.. can't go wrong..
My first track event is in a few weeks and going to be on a stock Z.. should be fun..
Oh yea Im tossing some new tires and wheels..
Re: (350zQ45a)
good luck and have fun!
here's my list of track tips for anyone who cares:
my clutch fluid boiled my first time out with my Z - I've only tracked it once so far (car is pending some troubleshooting at the moment) next time I'm going to try replacing my clutch fluid. Outside temp was about 90 degrees when I went. Note that I have the tilton clutch - maybe it's more prone to heat? I was also using redline synthetic transmission fluid.
I use redline synthetic differencial fluid with the nismo differencial cooler. Some people with aftermarket LSD's and no diff cooler overheat their diff and it leaks oil - which compounds heat even more
I've heard of other people's power steering fluid boiling - so i got the nismo power steering cooler
I had motul racing brake fluid put in before hand
You will drastically wear out your brake pads - make SURE you have enough pad left to track.
I have brembo brakes and had no brake fade. My pads had about 12000 miles of normal street driving on them. After I tracked they got worn down a lot. They're still driveable, but squeel a lot now and I will not do another track event with the same set.
My friend who's a semi-pro driver used to have a G35 with the standard brakes. After 1 track day, the pads were GONE. He did not warp the rotors though. He said they were just starting to fade at the end of each session so he had to slow down earlier.
use racing gas. 101-103 octane or so - you really don't wanna use 91 if that's the "premium" gas that's offered in your state. They usually offer racing gas at the track, but don't get anything much over 103 since it's probably leaded
Check your fluids - especially your oil.
I changed my oil the night before - synthetic
after each session, do NOT use the parking brake under any circumstances unless you want it welded to your drivetrain. Park it in 1st or reverse
It's usually recomended that when you're done with a session, to let the car keep running for at least a couple minutes so you don't develope any heatsoak.
Pop the hood while you let the car cool off while on.
every track usually recomends not using antifreeze in the radiator. Use Redline Waterwetter instead. It cools the engine even more than antifreeze, and most importantly isn't slippery. If your radiator were to leak, chances are it'd be your rear tires driving over it and you might spin out or others might spin out if it leaked onto the track.
I've found that the stock suspension really dips the car on hard cornering. You can feel the weight transfer hard to a corner/tire as you turn. It's not too confidence-inspiring but still performs ok
Modified by sentry65 at 7:15 PM 4/27/2005
here's my list of track tips for anyone who cares:
my clutch fluid boiled my first time out with my Z - I've only tracked it once so far (car is pending some troubleshooting at the moment) next time I'm going to try replacing my clutch fluid. Outside temp was about 90 degrees when I went. Note that I have the tilton clutch - maybe it's more prone to heat? I was also using redline synthetic transmission fluid.
I use redline synthetic differencial fluid with the nismo differencial cooler. Some people with aftermarket LSD's and no diff cooler overheat their diff and it leaks oil - which compounds heat even more
I've heard of other people's power steering fluid boiling - so i got the nismo power steering cooler
I had motul racing brake fluid put in before hand
You will drastically wear out your brake pads - make SURE you have enough pad left to track.
I have brembo brakes and had no brake fade. My pads had about 12000 miles of normal street driving on them. After I tracked they got worn down a lot. They're still driveable, but squeel a lot now and I will not do another track event with the same set.
My friend who's a semi-pro driver used to have a G35 with the standard brakes. After 1 track day, the pads were GONE. He did not warp the rotors though. He said they were just starting to fade at the end of each session so he had to slow down earlier.
use racing gas. 101-103 octane or so - you really don't wanna use 91 if that's the "premium" gas that's offered in your state. They usually offer racing gas at the track, but don't get anything much over 103 since it's probably leaded
Check your fluids - especially your oil.
I changed my oil the night before - synthetic
after each session, do NOT use the parking brake under any circumstances unless you want it welded to your drivetrain. Park it in 1st or reverse
It's usually recomended that when you're done with a session, to let the car keep running for at least a couple minutes so you don't develope any heatsoak.
Pop the hood while you let the car cool off while on.
every track usually recomends not using antifreeze in the radiator. Use Redline Waterwetter instead. It cools the engine even more than antifreeze, and most importantly isn't slippery. If your radiator were to leak, chances are it'd be your rear tires driving over it and you might spin out or others might spin out if it leaked onto the track.
I've found that the stock suspension really dips the car on hard cornering. You can feel the weight transfer hard to a corner/tire as you turn. It's not too confidence-inspiring but still performs ok
Modified by sentry65 at 7:15 PM 4/27/2005
Sentry,
You're in PHX? Same here! I'm headed out for the next N.A.S.A event..
I don't know what to expect, I haven't been on the track for a few years, and the Z is still pretty much new to me. I've had it for a few K miles. I notice some well alot of understeer at the limit, which makes sense given the staggered tires and safety margins put in by the factory.
Anyway I have the base model, so I don't even have a LSD. This should be real interesting..
Here is what I'm thinking prior to the event:
drain oil, change with redline synthetic. Also replace filter.. Anything you would recommend over OEM?
Bleed brakes, replace with motul..Flush cooling system, put in redline water wetter..
Change out the manual fluid with redline..
I bet the track temp will be 100+ so this should be interesting. I'm going to try to go easy on the brakes, because I think they will turn too much real quick in the AZ heat, and some late braking
Where do you race in PHX? Are you a member of N.A.S.A or SCCA??
How about some general driving tips with the Z. Given it's considerable understeer a slow in fast out approach seems best, really concentrating on proper line entry.. Would the Z benefit with use of alot of trailbraking to adjust the car mid corner, or are the brakes not up for the task?
Thanks for all the tips, this is really huge.. I have no idea what to expect, or how the Z will do. I just know I will try to push her as hard as I think I can.
You're in PHX? Same here! I'm headed out for the next N.A.S.A event..
I don't know what to expect, I haven't been on the track for a few years, and the Z is still pretty much new to me. I've had it for a few K miles. I notice some well alot of understeer at the limit, which makes sense given the staggered tires and safety margins put in by the factory.
Anyway I have the base model, so I don't even have a LSD. This should be real interesting..
Here is what I'm thinking prior to the event:
drain oil, change with redline synthetic. Also replace filter.. Anything you would recommend over OEM?
Bleed brakes, replace with motul..Flush cooling system, put in redline water wetter..
Change out the manual fluid with redline..
I bet the track temp will be 100+ so this should be interesting. I'm going to try to go easy on the brakes, because I think they will turn too much real quick in the AZ heat, and some late braking
Where do you race in PHX? Are you a member of N.A.S.A or SCCA??
How about some general driving tips with the Z. Given it's considerable understeer a slow in fast out approach seems best, really concentrating on proper line entry.. Would the Z benefit with use of alot of trailbraking to adjust the car mid corner, or are the brakes not up for the task?
Thanks for all the tips, this is really huge.. I have no idea what to expect, or how the Z will do. I just know I will try to push her as hard as I think I can.
Re: (350zQ45a)
hey 350zQ45a,
hey cool another Z driver who's into tracking! I'm not a member of anything yet. I was at firebird on track 1 I think it was when I went.
I actually don't have much experience tracking. I'm mostly just relaying a lot of the precautions I've read about and heard from other's personal experience
My Z seemed to do ok. I wasn't going too crazy or anything because I'm still new to how the Z handles on the track so I can't really give much advice. I didn't try trail braking. My Z seemed to respond well though. I had a couple times where I entered a corner a little too hot, and purposely lifted off the throttle just a hair to get the tail to kick out just a little and got back on it in order to not understeer off the track. The car can get really alive really quick if you have some momentum behind you - nothing crazy though. I was driving on the stock tires.
oh, hehe I noticed that my rear tires picked up some serious rubber kinda melted to it. Mostly racing compound etc I'm guessing. It was just caked onto my rear tires - there was some on my fronts too. So as the day went on, I actually had more grip - was like cheap slicks from picking up the layers of hot rubber left on the track from other cars. All of it came off after a 2-3 days went by - or about 80 miles or so
Oh yeah, be sure to either get a bra or painters tape from home depot and cover your front bumper and maybe side skirts and the area just behind the rear tires. It looks kinda goofy, but on the track lots of people do it and it protects the thin nissan paint. I forgot to do that. I didn't get major rock chips, but I'll tape up my car next time
Modified by sentry65 at 8:19 PM 4/27/2005
hey cool another Z driver who's into tracking! I'm not a member of anything yet. I was at firebird on track 1 I think it was when I went.
I actually don't have much experience tracking. I'm mostly just relaying a lot of the precautions I've read about and heard from other's personal experience
My Z seemed to do ok. I wasn't going too crazy or anything because I'm still new to how the Z handles on the track so I can't really give much advice. I didn't try trail braking. My Z seemed to respond well though. I had a couple times where I entered a corner a little too hot, and purposely lifted off the throttle just a hair to get the tail to kick out just a little and got back on it in order to not understeer off the track. The car can get really alive really quick if you have some momentum behind you - nothing crazy though. I was driving on the stock tires.
oh, hehe I noticed that my rear tires picked up some serious rubber kinda melted to it. Mostly racing compound etc I'm guessing. It was just caked onto my rear tires - there was some on my fronts too. So as the day went on, I actually had more grip - was like cheap slicks from picking up the layers of hot rubber left on the track from other cars. All of it came off after a 2-3 days went by - or about 80 miles or so
Oh yeah, be sure to either get a bra or painters tape from home depot and cover your front bumper and maybe side skirts and the area just behind the rear tires. It looks kinda goofy, but on the track lots of people do it and it protects the thin nissan paint. I forgot to do that. I didn't get major rock chips, but I'll tape up my car next time
Modified by sentry65 at 8:19 PM 4/27/2005
Sentry:
I am picking up a set of OZ wheels and Pirelli Directional ZR tires. They were intended for another car, but how do you think they would do on the Z?
They are 18x8 in the front and 18x9 in the rear. 35 mm offset.Tires are 245/45/18 in the front and 285/45/18 in the rear.
Do you think I should put these on, or just stick with the OEM tires..
Do you heel & toe the Z?
I haven't gotten the precise feel for it yet on the Z. I tend to not put enough foot on the brake, so when I swivel over to the gas I am still short..
Oh well
I am picking up a set of OZ wheels and Pirelli Directional ZR tires. They were intended for another car, but how do you think they would do on the Z?
They are 18x8 in the front and 18x9 in the rear. 35 mm offset.Tires are 245/45/18 in the front and 285/45/18 in the rear.
Do you think I should put these on, or just stick with the OEM tires..
Do you heel & toe the Z?
I haven't gotten the precise feel for it yet on the Z. I tend to not put enough foot on the brake, so when I swivel over to the gas I am still short..
Oh well
Re: (350zQ45a)
I'm learning to heal and toe. I won't use it on the track until I know I've mastered it.
I have a pedal extender on my gas pedal. I bought them here http://www.ompusa.com/pedals.htm - the first ones on the page. I don't use the smaller ones, just the big one that I wrenched onto my gas pedal.It raises the pedal about 8 mm and extends it towards the brake pedal by about 2 cm.
I'm sure those wheels and tires you have will better than the OEM ones - pretty much anything will be. I don't know Pirelli tires very well. I wanted to get a good feel for the stock tires to see how the car felt so I had a benchmark when I upgrade my tires and other handling parts. I wanted to get my money's worth out of the stock tires. I figured I might as well use them while learning the car for the first time since I knew I wasn't going to really be pushing the car.
I have a pedal extender on my gas pedal. I bought them here http://www.ompusa.com/pedals.htm - the first ones on the page. I don't use the smaller ones, just the big one that I wrenched onto my gas pedal.It raises the pedal about 8 mm and extends it towards the brake pedal by about 2 cm.
I'm sure those wheels and tires you have will better than the OEM ones - pretty much anything will be. I don't know Pirelli tires very well. I wanted to get a good feel for the stock tires to see how the car felt so I had a benchmark when I upgrade my tires and other handling parts. I wanted to get my money's worth out of the stock tires. I figured I might as well use them while learning the car for the first time since I knew I wasn't going to really be pushing the car.
Hi-jack
for you tracking guys:
In our Nissan parts subforum there are some 5zigens FN-01C with tires FS right now, light clubracer wheels which most often come in 17's but these are in 18's.Perfect offset for 350Z.
Good price too:zerothread?id=113864
I'm not the one selling just figured I point 'em out.
Fred..
for you tracking guys:
In our Nissan parts subforum there are some 5zigens FN-01C with tires FS right now, light clubracer wheels which most often come in 17's but these are in 18's.Perfect offset for 350Z.
Good price too:zerothread?id=113864
I'm not the one selling just figured I point 'em out.
Fred..
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