Why don't we use NOS to get more or sufficient bottom end power?

[Vetal]

Did a search and haven't found anything on subject.I'd be much more happier with my CA18DET if I could improve it's bottom end torque (at least comparable to good 2.0 NA engine)

[8ggalant]

please its nitrous....sorry i hate that...anyway...i was THINKIN about sprayin on my ca when its done....i doubt i will tho

[boost_boy]

please its nitrous....sorry i hate that...anyway...i was THINKIN about sprayin on my ca when its done....i doubt i will tho

You have a very small window of low power in the Ca's power band. Spraying nitrous at say 1500 rpm will not be smart. With the properly matched turbo and functioning fuel system, i'm pretty sure you can work through your low end power blues. You can always build a stroker motor off the CA20 powerplant.

Dee

[c-rad]

I don't get the whole "I want more low end on my CA" questions. I mean, if you want low end power, why did you get a CA to begin with? If you want a low-end torque monster, turbo the KA. If you want a happy high-revving top end puller, get a CA.

[Myetball]

A while back I saw one of those Sunday morning tuner shows that featured a modified Z32. Boost came on at over 4k so they set it up to spray until the turbo spooled. Turbo lag was a non-issue and the thing was wicked fast.

If done properly it's actually a good idea but not very practical for full time use.

[fanta]

if you want low end power, why did you get a CA to begin with?

[81na ZX]

A while back I saw one of those Sunday morning tuner shows that featured a modified Z32. Boost came on at over 4k so they set it up to spray until the turbo spooled. Turbo lag was a non-issue and the thing was wicked fast.

Its called properlly sizing a turbo

For example: Dyno Queen Supra A makes 1200 hp... from 6900 to 7500 on lets say a T91. Runs 12sBPU+ Supra makes 450hp from 3400 to 7500 on like a T61. Runs 11s.

So you gotta ask yourself, do you want a preatty dyno, or a fast car? Properally sized turbo will give you a fast car. Super huge turbos will give you gobs of power, gobs unuseable power.With the right turbo, you won't need help to spool it from n2o (and I prefer NX to NOS anyway ) and you'll be faster than the car that needs the help - even after it sprays...

[RMiller]

Please, more horsepower has more potential than less. A 1200 hp supra that runs 12's is wearing cheap street tires.

[redamnavit]

Its called properlly sizing a turbo

To play devil's advocate here, as power goals increase you do eventually leave the world of "properly sized", low-rpm spool turbos. I seriously can't see a 450HP CA pulling hard from 3200 RPM without something to fill in the bottom end. Using a supercharger with a bypass valve isn't much different in principle to using NX. There are some impressive twincharged MK1 MR2s around, not to mention Nissan's own factory MA09ERT.

Having said all that, I agree with c-rad on this one. My SC Thunderbird was a hell of a lot of fun on the low-end, but I don't expect my CA do to the same thing. I expect it to rev high and do it better than the T-bird could hope to.

[Vetal]

You have a very small window of low power in the Ca's power band. Spraying nitrous at say 1500 rpm will not be smart.

I think I haven't seen high-power CA18DET pulling good from rpms lower than 3000-3500... Saw a thread where you said:"From 1000rpm to 3200rpm with a real decent turbo, this engine moves at its own pace unless you have a standalone and you advance the timing between 1000 and 3200rpm."In my opinion this range is very important for city driving. I'd like to help the engine to get there faster

Quote »You can always build a stroker motor off the CA20 powerplant.

Dee[/quote]And get 11% more displacement for some 1500$? I wouldn't consider it as a sensible option

Why is it bad to spray NOS at low rpms? If the engine produces let's say 30hp (just a guess) at 2000rpm, why not add another 10-15hp on WOT ?

[Vetal]

I don't get the whole "I want more low end on my CA" questions. I mean, if you want low end power, why did you get a CA to begin with? If you want a low-end torque monster, turbo the KA. If you want a happy high-revving top end puller, get a CA.

1) I got CA because a got a car with CA18DET 2) I like CA3) I will continue to tune CA4) it's the only affordable Nissan engine in here5) I like CA once again

I hope I've answered your question

Guys, are you driving your cars only at 4000+ rpms so you don't need low end torque? I don't quite understand your attitude. You keep squeezing top end power out of CA and don't bother at all about bottom end. I don't need a dyno-queen, I want very fast streetable car.

In another words, yes, I want cheap, simple, small engine producing fantastic horse power and loads of low end torque being only 1.8 liter

OK, let's be serious... Please don't tell me to get KA only because you personally don't care about city driving. If NOS idea is bad, please prove it with some arguments. Argumentation like "hey it's CA so it can't have torque" doesn't satisfy me

Hope I didn't offend anyone. It's 3am now, I'm not quite sure my english is very good at this time of day

[Myetball]

Its called properlly sizing a turbo

For example: Dyno Queen Supra A makes 1200 hp... from 6900 to 7500 on lets say a T91. Runs 12sBPU+ Supra makes 450hp from 3400 to 7500 on like a T61. Runs 11s.

So you gotta ask yourself, do you want a preatty dyno, or a fast car? Properally sized turbo will give you a fast car. Super huge turbos will give you gobs of power, gobs unuseable power.With the right turbo, you won't need help to spool it from n2o (and I prefer NX to NOS anyway ) and you'll be faster than the car that needs the help - even after it sprays...

Why is it any time we talk about speed and horsepower we have to compare everything to 1,000+ hp 12 second and under Supras and Skylines? Yeah you can properly size the turbo on a CA to get 2500rpm boost but it's gonna be a stock T25 that will die out on top.

Rather than offer up these massive hp cars as examples, how bout someone tell this guy what the proper size turbo is to get good low end pull and still has good pull on top? For a mostly stock CA I doubt such a match can be found.

Spray it, SC it, live with the lag, or launch every green light at 5k+

[redamnavit]

In my opinion this range is very important for city driving. I'd like to help the engine to get there faster

If you're driving in the city I hope you're not driving at WOT.

Quote »Why is it bad to spray NOS at low rpms? If the engine produces let's say 30hp (just a guess) at 2000rpm, why not add another 10-15hp on WOT ? [/quote]http://www.turbosaturns.net/ar....html

"You could run nitrous at 500 rpm's but the velocity of the air going into your intake isn't going to be enough to properly mix the nitrous and fuel, which increases your chances of running the engine lean. Bottom line: don't do it."

That's the primary issue.

[81na ZX]

Why is it any time we talk about speed and horsepower we have to compare everything to 1,000+ hp 12 second and under Supras and Skylines? Yeah you can properly size the turbo on a CA to get 2500rpm boost but it's gonna be a stock T25 that will die out on top.

Rather than offer up these massive hp cars as examples, how bout someone tell this guy what the proper size turbo is to get good low end pull and still has good pull on top? For a mostly stock CA I doubt such a match can be found.

Spray it, SC it, live with the lag, or launch every green light at 5k+

A T25 isn't a properlly sized turbo. Its a factory specified turbo for early spoolup and so companies don't get sued.

It depends on th eboost someone wanted, but a GT37 is a properally sized turbo for the entire power band on a stock ca18. Attached is a map with the points of 3000 and 8000 rpms plotted for 15psi. And thats FULL boost @ 3000 Rpms. Spool would practically start off idle.

[r34 gtr]

thats pretty nice. ill remember that turbo if im ever in the market again.

let me just say that my turbo doesnt spool up in 1st and 2nd gear until about 4000rpm. its not like i dont have the power to get around or anything, ive got plenty of torque for that. just dont expect to burn anyone until youre past that. i have found that the ca18 is actually alot like the honda b18c, they dont really go until after about 3500 rpm. my friend's civic had a b18c in it and vtec kicks in at about 4500rpm and it just rips until its 8200rpm redline. my ca spools at 4k and screams up to about 7800rpm. its not like you dont have a usable powerband or anything. in fact, the ca has a huge power band because it has the ability to rev so high without risk of damage to the head.

i remember that a long time ago, dee told me that the ca is really a happier engine when you rev it up a bit. its true, my engine sounded a whole lot healthier when i wasnt cruising at 50mph doing 2500rpm in 5th. leaving it in 4th at 3200 or so, it actually ran better and i didnt see a change in gas mileage. make your ca happier! rev it up a bit.

- tim

[boost_boy]

I think I haven't seen high-power CA18DET pulling good from rpms lower than 3000-3500... Saw a thread where you said:"From 1000rpm to 3200rpm with a real decent turbo, this engine moves at its own pace unless you have a standalone and you advance the timing between 1000 and 3200rpm."In my opinion this range is very important for city driving. I'd like to help the engine to get there faster

And get 11% more displacement for some 1500$? I wouldn't consider it as a sensible option

Why is it bad to spray NOS at low rpms? If the engine produces let's say 30hp (just a guess) at 2000rpm, why not add another 10-15hp on WOT ?

Listen man, you can go out and experiment with nitrous if you want and let us know how it goes. I personally don't see the need for adding juice just to increase power from 1000rpm to 3200rpm. This engine's ability to rev will see you past your dramas. And if your CA is really that lazy on the lower end, then there is something wrong with your set-up. It may not be the most low end power monster, but it sure as hell ain't no slouch either.

And as for the stroker kit, I'm pretty sure you can make some use of the extra displacement, but don't scream cost for performance. If you want performance, you will pay for it "point Blank" . There's no skating uphill when it comes to increasing power, so if you want the edge over the next racer or whatever, sometimes it will require you to spend that $1500 you're referring to. And I promise you with the turbo I use now, I get the best of both worlds on an internally stock CA18DET. But it's all up to you; I know what I got to do .

Dee

[Vetal]

I'll research it a little bit I need 1500-3200 range cause unless I see a BMW I drive like retiree And when I see BMW I'm usually too lazy to downshift

If you happen to know Evo3 16G "Big" turbo - do you consider it good for low end and power of up to ~320whp?

[r34 gtr]

i agree. ive happily spent some 7000+ dollars under the hood of my car and trust me, its going to perform when the time comes. my ca is internally stock too and its no slouch. when i drove it the last few days before i came back to school, it would break the tires loose in 2nd gear just by mashing the gas. im pretty sure it would spin the tires through 5th if you played your cards right. there is no lack of torque whatsoever, it just isnt all there below about 3500rpm. just shift a little later and youll be fine.

- tim

[r34 gtr]

on a side note, like that avatar? just figured i should throw it up seeing my screen name and all.

- tim

[Vetal]

You still don't seem to understand me

[redamnavit]

I'll research it a little bit I need 1500-3200 range cause unless I see a BMW I drive like retiree And when I see BMW I'm usually too lazy to downshift

What you effectively want is a bigger displacement. Honestly, a positive displacement supercharger is the only thing that's going to work for you here; its the only means of introducing extra air from the get go without compromising the engine. For instance:

http://www.automotive.eaton.co...5.asp

Given where you want your power you'd probably be better off scrapping the turbo setup entirely and running the supercharger alone. Which isn't a bad idea; the CA's internals are going to serve you for whatever means of forced induction you choose.

[float_6969]

Can I be the jerk and tell him to get a KA? I mean, you want a really driveable motor, the KA is the one to have. Even off boost, it's got plenty of torque. If I was going to build another car, and just have it for street use, I'd have a turbo KA, no doubt about it in my mind.

[c-rad]

Can I be the jerk and tell him to get a KA? I mean, you want a really driveable motor, the KA is the one to have. Even off boost, it's got plenty of torque. If I was going to build another car, and just have it for street use, I'd have a turbo KA, no doubt about it in my mind.

LOL, I pretty much said that in my post....

[Vetal]

OK, guys, forget it It won't be KA (at least this car), and it NEVER would be supercharged, so let's consider this topic closed