Why do people tolerate this? *wireless rant*

[PoorManQ45]

This is in regards mostly to Android as that's what I'm most familiar with, but I believe it's applicable to iOS and WP7.

Starting with Froyo, google integrated WiFi tether into the AOSP(used to refer to unmolested google roms) ROM. Every wireless carrier proceeded to rip this feature out. In turn they decided to offer this really cool feature called "wireless hotspot" for on average an extra $20.

What does this "wireless hotspot" get you you ask? It allows you to connect devices wirelessly to your phone, usually up to 5, to use your phones data connection. So, for that extra money you must get something cool like a larger data plan, right? No. You are still using the data that you were paying for initially with just your phone and no "wireless hotspot" service.

So, to make sure we are all on the same page:
Wireless carrier removes integrated feature
Charges $20+/month to add it back
Does not add any other features/perks for increase in monthly fee

So, what do you end up with? You now have two devices that are your own, usually a laptop/tablet, that you can connect together to use one data plan.

Why are consumers tolerating this BS? Lets use ATT for example with their 2GB plan. It makes no difference if that 2GB is used by the phone directly or if it's used by a laptop tethered to the phone. It's still the 2GB that you paid for! To allow a company to charge you more to allow you to use a feature that you already paid for is simply absurd!

What's more is that companies like ATT have figured out a way to detect if you're tethering without having their "wireless hotspot" service and are sending out messages and emails to these people saying that if they do not cease and desist they will be forced onto a tethering plan! There have not been any reports of them actually forcing people to add the service on to their plan yet, but I suspect this will happen.

The only way I could possibly see this extra cost justified is if the data cap was increased. Considering that the initial data plan usually costs about $20/month I'd say that a minimum of a doubling of this cap would be appropriate.

Until this happens I will be sticking to my Rooted phone running WiFi tether on Tmobile(throttled to <60kbps after 5GB). The last two days of my billing cycle I stop using my home wireless and only use the phone. Yeah, i'm a d!ck and max out my plan every month!

[frapjap]

Until this happens I will be sticking to my Rooted phone running WiFi tether on Tmobile(throttled to <60kbps after 5GB). The last two days of my billing cycle I stop using my home wireless and only use the phone. Yeah, i'm a d*** and max out my plan every month!

Streaming p0rn is going to be an antagonizing slow process.

[PoorManQ45]

Until this happens I will be sticking to my Rooted phone running WiFi tether on Tmobile(throttled to <60kbps after 5GB). The last two days of my billing cycle I stop using my home wireless and only use the phone. Yeah, i'm a d*** and max out my plan every month!

Streaming p0rn is going to be an antagonizing slow process.

Not really. I get about 300KBps average. Sometimes as high as 500KBps

[Jesda]

Not all data is data. PC data consumes more bandwidth because the content is richer.

[zacmil]

If you were able to re-enable the tethering feature, could they really force you into a "wireless hotspot" plan? I know a year or two ago they decided that modifying your own phone was not a violation of the DMCA (what a revelation), so if you were to re-enable tethering and weren't doing anything to violate their terms of service, could they really force an unwanted "service" on you?

[RCA]

What's more is that companies like ATT have figured out a way to detect if you're tethering without having their "wireless hotspot" service and are sending out messages and emails to these people saying that if they do not cease and desist they will be forced onto a tethering plan! There have not been any reports of them actually forcing people to add the service on to their plan yet, but I suspect this will happen.

Until this happens I will be sticking to my Rooted phone running WiFi tether on Tmobile(throttled to <60kbps after 5GB). The last two days of my billing cycle I stop using my home wireless and only use the phone. Yeah, i'm a d*** and max out my plan every month!

I'm with out 100%!

I don't necessarily care that they rip the feature out but if all carriers start giving customers ultimatums to cease and desist or a forced tether plan is implemented then I'll go ape s***. Not even sure if that's legal. It shouldn't be.

As for AT&T's duchebaggery...
If any one has them and is willing to leave because of this, call customer care and tell them you are canceling their service as a direct result of this new tethering "ultimatum". Enough people do this and it will not longer be tolerated in the industry. And while we are at it... (directed at AT&T users reading this) Why do you have At&T in the first place!?

[PoorManQ45]

Not all data is data. PC data consumes more bandwidth because the content is richer.

That should not matter. If you purchase 2GB of data you should be able to use that 2GB how ever you want. If I use it in a day that is my problem, not their's!

[Jesda]

Not all data is data. PC data consumes more bandwidth because the content is richer.

That should not matter. If you purchase 2GB of data you should be able to use that 2GB how ever you want. If I use it in a day that is my problem, not their's!

It matters because providing data to a PC consumes more resources for the carrier.

With a 2GB plan and a PC, you're likely to use it all. With a 2GB plan and a smartphone, you're unlikely to use even half that. Most people don't tether, so if pricing for data was universal, you'd end up with higher monthly fees for everyone rather than higher fees for people who typically use more data.

This is why tethering officially has a fee. I tether quietly on Virgin/Sprint with careful data use and try my best not to abuse it.

[AppleBonker]

Isn't AT&T the only provider sending emails/texts to users about unauthorized tethering at this point? And I thought it was only iPhone users as well.

[Jesda]

Really, if you want to make a stink about something, complain about text messages. They have no impact on bandwidth or infrastructure. The messages piggy back on packets already being transmitted between towers and handsets.

[PoorManQ45]

It matters because providing data to a PC consumes more resources for the carrier.

With a 2GB plan and a PC, you're likely to use it all. With a 2GB plan and a smartphone, you're unlikely to use even half that. Most people don't tether, so if pricing for data was universal, you'd end up with higher monthly fees for everyone rather than higher fees for people who typically use more data.

Consider that something as simple as using Pandora on high quality for simply 15 hours a month(30 minutes a day!) will use over 2GB.

So, I could theoretically run through the entire data "bucket" in one day using just the phone.

Please explain again how this is different. Note, this is only using a music stream app. This is not even factoring in actual day to day usage.

[PoorManQ45]

Isn't AT&T the only provider sending emails/texts to users about unauthorized tethering at this point? And I thought it was only iPhone users as well.

Yeah, it's only the iPhone right now.

Really, if you want to make a stink about something, complain about text messages. They have no impact on bandwidth or infrastructure. The messages piggy back on packets already being transmitted between towers and handsets.

Indeed, I will agree that this service is BS too. They charge you a set amount no matter how you use your texts though. What does suck is that with the addition of data plans MMS now uses part of your data plan. So if I send a 1MB picture it uses 1MB of my data plan(even though their servers compress the image and the recipient only receives a picture ~1/4 the size!!! )

It used to be that SMS and MMS were tied together under your messaging plan. Hell, this is still how it is with "dumb" phones.

[Jesda]

Consider that something as simple as using Pandora on high quality for simply 15 hours a month(30 minutes a day!) will use over 2GB.

So, I could theoretically run through the entire data "bucket" in one day using just the phone.

Please explain again how this is different. Note, this is only using a music stream app. This is not even factoring in actual day to day usage.

The difference is that on a PC, you're running Pandora, watching Youtube, possibly torrenting, buying music, connected to a VPN, Netflixing, or most of all: STREAMING p0rn.

Average monthly data use for a handset is a few hundred megabytes. The 2GB+ user is the exception.

You can pull theoretical situations out of the sky all day. Handsets are data-light. PCs are data-intensive. The pricing is modeled after this. If you want flat pricing for all data, expect to pay a lot more, which would then penalize the majority of people who use less data than you.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too. The carriers have caught on.

[Amays U G37S]

I've always known it to be similar data usage to something like: 8 hours a day on the phone 5 days, well over the 2-4gb limit everyone pays less for. The only sensible plan would be to get unlimited data transfer, the same as you would on a wireless device for a laptop.

I've seen people with iphones browse the web regularly and previously had just the smaller data plans, and went over those easily.

How many people end up with 10-12k cell phone bills for data usage?

[Jesda]

That's quite rare. Most people's phones spend most of their time idle. I use a carrier that's unlimited, and if you abuse it, they simply reduce your speed. That then makes me wonder why anyone uses AT&T in a country with choices like US Cellular, Sprint/Virgin/Boost, and Verizon.

Average monthly usage in 2010 was just a couple hundred MB. Projected usage by 2015 is 1.5GB.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/02/08/technol ... /index.htm


AT&T's 2GB cap likely will not be enough in just a couple years, but for now, its generous, if paltry compared to its competitors. So, switch to a competitor.

[szh]

Really, if you want to make a stink about something, complain about text messages. They have no impact on bandwidth or infrastructure. The messages piggy back on packets already being transmitted between towers and handsets.

Uh, no. They do have special data channels for SMS, and do need infrastructure to support their transmissions.

I can go into details if you really want.

Z

[PoorManQ45]

jesda, you're missing something. bandwidth is bandwidth.

if a phone has a Max connection of 500kb a second it doesn't matter if you use that up with the phone or with the computer. it's still 500kb.

it sounds like, from your angle, that if the carriers all limited the connection to something like 100KBps everyone would be alright. that's enough to satisfy phone use and plenty fast for regular web browsing on a computer.

[RCA]

I see what Jesda is saying.

• PC's have a much high potential to use more data.
  The nature of most phones require much less data.

But PMQ's point still stands. I want to use my data the way I want to use my data. So if you are on a plan when you meet your cap you get charged a penalty then it's your responsibility to monitor your usage. But Jesda is saying for those who have plans that throttle people who reach their cap instead of charging them extra, tethering could be a real problem for a wireless network.

Both of you are on the money but interpreting each other incorrectly.

[THawks]

It isn't often that I read PMQ's rants and voice an opinion (I think this is a first actually) because I don't see eye to eye with him on a few things. This is one item that I completely agree with him.

I have an Evo 4g with Sprint (been with Sprint for 8 year and have never had an issue) Sprint charges $29.99 a month for the "hotspot" usage. There is also a $10 dollar premium (which I believe has been brought up in a previous thread) for "premium data" because of the phone I have which my understanding is access to the "4G" network that everyone has to pay, access to it or not.

I pay for the unlimited data/text/picture plan in addidtion to the minutes and other charges I pay for. There is no reason I should have to pay and extra 30 bucks when I am already paying for unlimited data access. At this point, I am (semi)willing to pay the $10 premium because Sprint doesn't cap or throttle their data (according to them and from what I have experienced) I just need to re-root my phone to get access to my free hotspot again.

[headhunt3r]

Jesda's argument IMO isn't really valid, considering that the $/GB that North American carriers charge is already pretty ridiculous.

It does not strain the network any harder if the data requests are coming in via the registered device or a tethered device. The extra work is actually just imposed on the device that's turned its WiFi hotspot on.

I completely agree with OP's frustrations. Thankfully in Canada I've joined a new carrier that's offering unlimited talk / text / data for $40, tethering or not.

Somehow the industry has devolved in such a way that the carrier can charge what they want, and customers are made to believe there's no other option, and that the carriers are doing everything right...

AT&T admits their metering is inaccurate: http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/ATT- ... acy-113370
Bell Canada admits UBB (Usage Based Billing) accounts for almost all internet revenue gains: http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/5697/125/

[Kompresshun]

I pay for the unlimited data/text/picture plan in addidtion to the minutes and other charges I pay for. There is no reason I should have to pay and extra 30 bucks when I am already paying for unlimited data access. At this point, I am (semi)willing to pay the $10 premium because Sprint doesn't cap or throttle their data (according to them and from what I have experienced) I just need to re-root my phone to get access to my free hotspot again.

Actually, Sprint has publicly said that they don't care if you root your phone and tether. They simply charge the extra $30/mo for the hotspot for people that want a "One-Click" solution and don't want to risk damaging their phone or voiding their warranty.

The extra $10 a month has been added to all phones smartphones(on new service plans) now too, not just the 4G phones. Although on the 4G phones, it's said to provide you with truly uncapped and unthrottled data, while the other phones get throttled once they reach a certain point(which is a pretty high number, like 5GB I believe). I still don't care, because they're cheaper than anyone else out there, if you're looking for unlimited data and messaging, and they have excellent service.

[PoorManQ45]

I keep noticing something coming up with you guys. 5GB is not a lot of data.

Excellent points from both sides.

I really have been considering Sprint due to their fully unlimited and unthrottle internet, but their coverage isn't the greatest in my area

[Kompresshun]

I keep noticing something coming up with you guys. 5GB is not a lot of data.

Excellent points from both sides.

I really have been considering Sprint due to their fully unlimited and unthrottle internet, but their coverage isn't the greatest in my area

No 5GB isn't a lot of data, i'm somewhat conservative with my data use, and I still use 1-2GB a month. I could live with 5GB though, since I don't travel a lot, and most places i'm at for a long period of time have Wifi.

Have you tried their service at all in your area? My father-in-law works up in your area and he never complains about his service there. We've been with them for over a year now and i've had no issues with coverage at all personally, but i've never been up in that area. You usually have like 1-2 weeks to return your phone and disconnect service, if your unsatisfied with the service, if I recall correctly.

[headhunt3r]

I keep noticing something coming up with you guys. 5GB is not a lot of data.

Excellent points from both sides.

I really have been considering Sprint due to their fully unlimited and unthrottle internet, but their coverage isn't the greatest in my area

I took advantage of the return policy and basically opened a new line with a new carrier where I live to test reception at where I live, work, and travel often to. It's a cheap way to know for sure how reception would be if you switched. Just make sure you read the return policy in full first.

[PoorManQ45]

No 5GB isn't a lot of data, i'm somewhat conservative with my data use, and I still use 1-2GB a month. I could live with 5GB though, since I don't travel a lot, and most places i'm at for a long period of time have Wifi.

Have you tried their service at all in your area? My father-in-law works up in your area and he never complains about his service there. We've been with them for over a year now and i've had no issues with coverage at all personally, but i've never been up in that area. You usually have like 1-2 weeks to return your phone and disconnect service, if your unsatisfied with the service, if I recall correctly.

I have two friends that both have Evos. There are a few odd places, like in a mall in a densely populated area that they don't get service and I do. I've noticed that their download speeds aren't the greatest either. While I sit around 300KBps they are usually around 100KBps. It's not bad overall, just unsure about it. So, I've got throttled after 5GB fast service or unthrottled and uncapped service at 1/3 the speed.

I'm waiting until all the dual core phones hit before I make a real choice. I don't want any of the current gen single cores.

[Kompresshun]

I have two friends that both have Evos. There are a few odd places, like in a mall in a densely populated area that they don't get service and I do. I've noticed that their download speeds aren't the greatest either. While I sit around 300KBps they are usually around 100KBps. It's not bad overall, just unsure about it. So, I've got throttled after 5GB fast service or unthrottled and uncapped service at 1/3 the speed.

I'm waiting until all the dual core phones hit before I make a real choice. I don't want any of the current gen single cores.

I've only got 2-3 bars on 3G here at the office and i'm getting between 900kb-1mb download speed consistently on my EVO. Now that's here in outskirts Lexington though, so it is probably different there.

I've been VERY satisfied with my EVO, there hasn't been a single phone that's come out since i've got it that would make me want to upgrade, and honestly none are on the horizon either. Even with the dual core phones, I see nothing that is drastically different performance wise, from my EVO that makes me drool and want it right now. I figure by the time I can upgrade though, there will be something more interesting.

I'm with you though if I were buying something new, with the EVO and Epic still being $199, i'd wait for something better at this point. Sprint is supposed to have the Nexus S very soon, but there are a ton of new phones coming out this year as well.

[THawks]

Not sure where you are located PMQ but the only place I have been and had absolutely no service on my sprint phones was intermittent driving between Prestonburg and Pikeville, KY. I occasionally go into roaming at my parents and my Grandparents places here in Nebraska (1200 people and 264 people respectively, both outside of city limits) Otherwise I have been up and down the Eastern seaboard, between the east coast and central nebraska, and Nogales, AZ/Mexico to Florida and never had an issue.

I am extremely happy with my Evo along with A33. Bought an extended battery that usually last 2 days with medium usage (4 to 5 hours of talk time, 150+ texts/pictures and random internet usage) I can't attest to download speeds on it at the moment as I am at work and can't carry it with me.

As for rooting, I know they don't have any issues with it, but I uprgraded to the latest version of Android and UnrEVOked hadnt put out a root for it yet awhile ago, been too busy to check up on it recently. I havent loooked much because I am not in any kind of hurry to replace my phone but I did see they are charging the $10 for all smartphones now but that is the price you "have" to pay to have the cool phone and My bill is still cheaper than my friends with iPhones and the like.

[Jesda]

5GB is a LOT of data. I once managed to use 6GB in a month by tethering to my laptop and torrenting at work. That took quite a bit of effort.

The average smartphone uses 200-300MB and by next year might be 800MB, in two years maybe 1.5GB. Only 3-4% of users routinely exceed 5GB.

Current data plans are intended to satisfy the majority of customers while alleviating bandwidth anxiety, because a typical handset is unlikely to ever exceed the average usage, much less 2GB or 5GB. Charging heavy users more is justified by their load on the network. It doesn't matter whether the additional data comes with a fee or if you're throttled after passing the cap. This prevents network abuse and reserves capacity for everyone else.

Yes, its annoying to be told "enough" by a carrier, like a family of 400 pounders spending all day at a Chinese buffet and getting asked to leave. Those of us who use the average amount of data don't want to be charged more to compensate for network burdens caused by the rest of you. Keep my service affordable by charging more to heavy users.

Its time to start thinking of mobile data as a utility. Charge people for the bandwidth that they use. I don't want to pay a flat $150/mo rate for electricity when I only use $50 worth, especially if the guy growing marijuana next door is using ten times the energy.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eA3XCvrK90[/youtube]


If you want more, then pay for it.

[Jesda]

Jesda's argument IMO isn't really valid, considering that the $/GB that North American carriers charge is already pretty ridiculous.

It does not strain the network any harder if the data requests are coming in via the registered device or a tethered device. The extra work is actually just imposed on the device that's turned its WiFi hotspot on.

No. PCs use more data. Handsets use less data. Less media-intensive handsets like the Blackberry use even less (typically 100MB).

If everyone decides to use their 3G connection as a home ISP, what do you think happens to network capacity?

[PoorManQ45]

I have two friends that both have Evos. There are a few odd places, like in a mall in a densely populated area that they don't get service and I do. I've noticed that their download speeds aren't the greatest either. While I sit around 300KBps they are usually around 100KBps. It's not bad overall, just unsure about it. So, I've got throttled after 5GB fast service or unthrottled and uncapped service at 1/3 the speed.

I'm waiting until all the dual core phones hit before I make a real choice. I don't want any of the current gen single cores.

I've only got 2-3 bars on 3G here at the office and i'm getting between 900kb-1mb download speed consistently on my EVO. Now that's here in outskirts Lexington though, so it is probably different there.

I've been VERY satisfied with my EVO, there hasn't been a single phone that's come out since i've got it that would make me want to upgrade, and honestly none are on the horizon either. Even with the dual core phones, I see nothing that is drastically different performance wise, from my EVO that makes me drool and want it right now. I figure by the time I can upgrade though, there will be something more interesting.

I'm with you though if I were buying something new, with the EVO and Epic still being $199, i'd wait for something better at this point. Sprint is supposed to have the Nexus S very soon, but there are a ton of new phones coming out this year as well.

I am referring to kilobytes per second. you are referring to kilobits. decide your nunber by 8 to get mine.

your readings are exactly inline with my friend's.