Why a supercharger and not a single Turbo?????

[redmanfx]

Serious. Why this love for the supercharger on the Q? Who's to say(back it up) that you couldn't do better with a Turbo mounted under the trunk? All kinds of room under your Q. Bigger exhaust and heat disapation would result. Add an intercooler in or under the trunk and you got your turbo. With less of the negative things a supercharger would bring. More stability, longer life, something you could drive every single day and who would know??

What do you think? Oh did I mention the engine being machined properly with different rods and or pistons to go set the turbo up properly..? The VH45DE with it's single cam could be set up nicely with the under rear turbo if done right.

[ScottJackson]

single cam? I didn't know there was a VH45 made with either a true single cam (pushrods and one cam in the valley) or SOHC. I don't think that you'd need to do anything to the internals of the motor to give it mild boost. Even if you did, you'd open a "whole can o' worms" because you'd then need to upgrade the trans, fuel system, injectors, and go with custom engine management. You can probably get by on low boost (maybe up to 6-7psi) on an otherwise completely stock setup. At what point is a custom ECU tune needed? From there, at what point is larger injectors needed? Anyway, I think a remote mount turbo is the best bang for the buck option. I still think a Holset HX35 or HX40 would work great. A T04E would probably do well too.

[hazw8st]

I am more of a turbo dude....................

[one ton garage]

Best thing to do... put your Q on a lift, grab a 1' section of 2-2.25" tubing and use it to mock up a path for the turbo plumbing underneath the car... try and see where you can squeeze it in and around, especially once you get to right about the transmission xmember forward. Then for kicks, tape the tubing in place along the route you expect it to take, and lower the car back down to ground level, and measure the distance from the ground to the tubing, esp. under the front main xmember.

[CrimsonQ]

I think most want the sc because of more low end vs turbo.

[elwesso]

the roots type SC is a lot more reliable. For one of those remote mount turbos you either have to have a seperate lubrication system for the turbo or have a pump to pump oil back to the oil pan... that kind of stuff makes me very nervous...

unless your running over 10lbs of boost the extra efficiency you get from a turbo vs a SC is not enough to really matter, maybe worth 5HP below 10lbs...

Rear turbos dont make any sense to me..... IMO i would rather put the turbo for a single turbo where the cats are or something, just to make it less complicated.

[Q_SHIP]

Better question:

Why does everybody keep talking about it and not doing it? We seriously have had hundreds of threads about it yet nothing has been done. For the love of god, we should have all the info needed by now. Arent you guys sick of these threads yet?

Don't even tell me "if it's that easy you do it" I'm not the one starting these threads.

[maxnix]

Better question:

Why does everybody keep talking about it and not doing it? We seriously have had hundreds of threads about it yet nothing has been done........ Arent you guys sick of these threads yet?

Don't even tell me "if it's that easy you do it" I'm not the one starting these threads.

Same reason young boys prefer Playboy magazine to dating real women.

[elwesso]

Better question:

Why does everybody keep talking about it and not doing it? We seriously have had hundreds of threads about it yet nothing has been done. For the love of god, we should have all the info needed by now. Arent you guys sick of these threads yet?

Don't even tell me "if it's that easy you do it" I'm not the one starting these threads.

why? because most people can hardly keep their Q in 100% in its stock trim, let alone deal with extra additions.

[redmanfx]

I am going to do it. Getting the remote Turbo with mods to the new JDM engine. I have to do it in stages as money allows. First is the purchase of the engine and shipped to shop where they can research best option for turbo and what mods are needed. Then have engine modded as needed(I will have it modded slightly). buy turbo. Then intercooler. Then lastly have the swap out of engine, exhaust and istallation of Turbo. So I'm looking at a few thousand to do it how I want it.

I can't see a down side. With a Super Charger, I see a down side......

[elwesso]

Whatever you gotta do man..... whatever you gotta do.

[ScottJackson]

Wes, what is needed to address the fuel and spark when adding boost to an otherwise stock VH45? I'm sure it's been covered in previous long threads, but a quick summary would be nice. Can the stock computer and injectors work fine with about 6-7psi of boost? If not what change is needed? Basically, I'd just like to see a short list of the modifications needed at different boost levels. I have my Q running again and I'm hoping to get my 13" cobra rotors adapted to it soon. I also have a .84 housing powerstroke turbo (similar to a 60-1) sitting in my garage. Sooo, the remote mount turbo may be tried relatively soon. It's looking like my 351C Ford V8 is heading for my 540i BMW instead of the Q, so I'm looking more closely at the turbo route for it.
Modified by ScottJackson at 1:52 AM 2/15/2007

[redmanfx]

I wanted to talk with Robert about an ECU program for the turbo. I will say that when I get to the point where I have the engine and know what turbo will be used I will provide all information researched and will describe everything done along the way. So all the "talk" will be "fact" and that will be the end of no one actually doing it.

[elwesso]

The stock injectors are good to about 450HP and internals. Upgrading injectors might get you to 500HP but once you get to the 500HP range you start hitting a brick wall. The heads can only flow about 500HP, the compression ratio is pretty high for that, and so on.

[bullittandy]

I've read a couple of articles and seen a couple of shows about rear mount turbos and they really do appear to be simpler than a S/C. On Mustangs with a moderate amount of boost (5-8 lbs) there are no internal mods needed-only good tuning. That's the only downside I can see, the tuning. If you can easily reduce the timing and increase the fuel then the only other slight trick would the oiling system.

Are there any MAF problems with a boosted Q engine? How much extra air can they support?

Truthfully, an older Q is the perfect car for this, plentiful, cheap and alot of used engines to experiment (grenade).

[Q45tech]

The stock MAF has a 7" [0.25 psi] pressure drop at ~~ 250 grams per second or 900 Kg per hour..............it increases to 10.4" at 1050 Kg/hour.

So beyond 380-400 HP the oem MAF becomes too restrictive [>2%]

http://www.allfordmustangs.com...s.xls

[StarPD]

I agree that a SC makes more sense for a street setup. The instant response and low-end torque is a lot more practical, and the mounting and associated plumbing would be a lot simpler.

But for me, the real question is who makes a SC kit that is already plumbed and set up for daily street use in a Q? 6-7 lbs boost shoudn't overstress the engine if it's not run full throttle all the time, and few mods should be necessary to make it a reliable combination that doesn't compromise engine or driveline life.

Not sure what 6-7 lbs boost would do to HP in a VK45, which starts (supposedly) around 340 HP, and not sure what one actually puts to the ground in stock trim. Has anyone dynoed a stock VK45, and if so, what was HP at the rear wheels?

I suspect that 6-7 lbs boost would add somewhere around 40 or 50 HP to a VK45.

Comments?

[ScottJackson]

Can the stock heads only flow to 500hp in N/A form or when under boost? For example, the stock '87-'93 mustangs came with pathetic E7 casting heads that would be pushed to make 400hp with a huge cam, headers, and intake upgrade. However, under boost they can easily reach 500 wheel hp which is where the block cracks down the middle. I would probably use a cheap methanol injection kit to compensate for the somewhat high compression ratio. It would also richen up the fuel mixture to some extent. The only thing I'd need a custom computer tune to do is pull some timing. So I wonder, with a water/meth injection kit and 6-7psi of boost, would a custom tune even be required? I know the mustang guys can get by with just swapping to larger injectors and a MAF that's calibrated to those injectors. They can get over 500hp at the wheels with that. I'd think that would be the cheapest way to get higher hp with a Q, if anyone sells the MAF and injector kit. Heck, maybe a resistor of some sort can be wired into the stock MAF so it will tell larger injectors to open less than it normally would (therefore providing the same fuel as the smaller injectors at idle and cruise while still feeding plenty of fuel under boost). How much can the transmission hold? I know the stock BMW automatic in the 540i (E39 uses a 5HP24 trans) is good to only around 450hp at the wheels but the 5HP30 in the E34 540i is good to over 500hp at the wheels. How strong is the stock Q trans?

[elwesso]

I just know that someone bench tested a set of VH heads nad it came out to be about 500HP. under boost, they could probably take more.. only a tiny port job woudl make them flow much more.. Again, not an issue with boost so much. It would be far easier to have a boost map made for the stock ECU (ergo- we have one already made)

The stock Q trans is pretty strong and you could probably get away with 450HP with stock internals and only a valve body...

[ScottJackson]

so could this boost map in the ECU be tailored to accomodate larger injectors? How much to get my active Q ECU reflashed? My powerstroke tubo can feed up to about 580hp at the crank while still being in good efficiency range. I suspect that'd be close to 500hp at the wheels. So I'd probably back off on it just a bit. I think I've read on here that the stock fuel pump is good to around 800hp. With a remapped ECU and the larger injectors (if that's an option) would 10-12psi be realistic on pump gas mixed with some Av gas? Does anyone make a basic shift kit for the trans? I don't want to purchase a whole valve body. I know for the Mustangs with the AOD and AOD-E, you can either buy a valve body that's already worked over, buy a shift kit, or even drill the separator plates in a few spots and remove some select springs in the factory valve body to accomplish the same thing. I'd assume more mustangs have been hot rodded than Q45s, but it'd be nice if there's info out there for us penny pinchers to do our own shift kit.

[Jeff Williams]

1. The 5.7 litre Corvette MAF is smaller than the Q45, and there are guys running well over 800 HP through Turbo and Super Chargers.

2. If you ran a pipe from the driver's manifold to the passenger side manifold, you could run a single exhaust pipe to a single turbo, and use the room under the car, to run the intake pipe back to a front mount intercooler or the MAF on the driver's side. You would have to wrap the pipe when you ran it past the exhaust pipe, but it would work. I think there is enough room there if you don't have the HICAS steering like Lola. Another idea, is to run it through the rocker panels and the fenderwell, like STS does on the Corvette system. Has anybody cut into the rocker panels, to see if a 2" pipe could be snaked through there?

[Q_SHIP]

Screw it guys, just spray it till it bogs.

[Q45tech]

Do you mean the modern 5.65 Corvette or the ancient 350 [5.7].

As I said the Q MAF doesn't begin to present a bottleneck until you flow enough air to exceed 380-400 HP and that is only a 2% restriction so it could flow 800 HP and only restrict things by 8%.

The 85mm inside diameter is LARGE however the blocking effects of the 10mm x 57mm PROBE and the air straightening and protective screen increase the restriction somewhat

8.8 square inches might be effectivel reduced down to 8 square inches then comes the matter of the screen.

By the way 3.0 " H2O is roughly 1.0 HP

[elwesso]

so could this boost map in the ECU be tailored to accomodate larger injectors? How much to get my active Q ECU reflashed? My powerstroke tubo can feed up to about 580hp at the crank while still being in good efficiency range. I suspect that'd be close to 500hp at the wheels. So I'd probably back off on it just a bit. I think I've read on here that the stock fuel pump is good to around 800hp. With a remapped ECU and the larger injectors (if that's an option) would 10-12psi be realistic on pump gas mixed with some Av gas? Does anyone make a basic shift kit for the trans? I don't want to purchase a whole valve body. I know for the Mustangs with the AOD and AOD-E, you can either buy a valve body that's already worked over, buy a shift kit, or even drill the separator plates in a few spots and remove some select springs in the factory valve body to accomplish the same thing. I'd assume more mustangs have been hot rodded than Q45s, but it'd be nice if there's info out there for us penny pinchers to do our own shift kit.

The stock ECU can be remapped to accomodate any size injector at any boost level. its all about knowing how to do it!

[paranoidjack]

Same reason young boys prefer Playboy magazine to dating real women.

I'm not sure they "prefer" it!

[redmanfx]

This is why I'm having a shop do this so they can figure this all out as we go ....and document it. I don't want the wiring harness replaced or the fuel system changed if I can help it, but whatever it takes you know?. The maf is staying and injectors are being looked ino. The really good thing about this process is that I now have access to a Nascar Quality machine shop, professionals with years and years of experience and folkes with a passion like mine to just go ahead and "do" it. I mean even the bottom of the motor may change... so this is all exploritory stuff here. The exhaust will change as well. IF you look at the Mustang's remote Turbo setup you'll get an idea of what I'll be attempting, but only as the Q allows.

[qsiguy]

...If you ran a pipe from the driver's manifold to the passenger side manifold, you could run a single exhaust pipe to a single turbo, and use the room under the car, to run the intake pipe back to a front mount intercooler or the MAF on the driver's side. You would have to wrap the pipe when you ran it past the exhaust pipe, but it would work. I think there is enough room there if you don't have the HICAS steering like Lola.....

Been planning my remote turbo setup for a long time just waiting for the budget to catch up. This is what I am planning to do with the exhaust to make room for the return tube from the compressor. Converting to a single exhaust wouldn't hurt performance as you'd be joining the dual exhaust in the rear anyway. Just need to increase the size of the single exhaust to be equal or larger than the combined area of the two existing pipes. For instance, each pipe is about 1.75" I think so a single 2.5" has almost the same area as two 1.75" pipes. A single 2.75" or 3" has quite a bit more area than the two 1.75" pipes. I think I'm going to go with the 2.5" pipe. The turbo will make backpressure anyway so it shouldn't make much, if any, difference if you go bigger.

I've got the turbo/wastegate (6.8 PSI)/BOV picked out, I already have my external oil pump, I have the MAF flange cut from 1/8" stainless steel. Just need to get the tubing and weld up my intake plumbing. Need to get a sandwich plate for the oil filter to supply my oil output line to the oil pump and then I'll return the oil to the oil pan or oil filler cap. I will do much of the fabrication myself and have an exhaust shop do my exhaust and intake plumbing. Cost will be a little over $1000 for the total system.

Here's a great example of what I'm planning on doing. Tail pipes will be different but this shows alot of the install. This is on a Porsche 928.

http://www.clearimageautomotiv...o.htm

[Fast Eddie]

First of all, DO NOT put an intercooler in the trunk.

Second, make sure that your MAF holds pressure. On a supercharged setup, the maf is in vacuum, (like stock) but if your turbo is remote mount, you will be blowing pressure INTO it. The LS1 (metal) MAFs are great for this, but the LS6 (plastic) MAFs are pretty leaky and need to be studied for leaks in a blow-through setup. Have no idea how the Nissans hold up in this regard.You could always extend the MAF wires and mount it back by the turbo intake, but not sure how much of a beating it would take under there.

If this information isnt available for the asking, you have to test it yourself. Without knowing your Nissan setups too well, what I have done is take a garbage bag folded over a few times and place it on the back of the MAF. install the MAF into the intake hose and clamp down with the worm gear. The back will now be sealed. Now its up to you to configure some sort of seal on the front with a nipple that you can blow pressurized air into. A little leak is liveable. A big one will need lots of silicone goop to seal all cracks.

This is often overlooked until "Why wont my car boost or hold a tune?!"

Hope that little nugget in a huge boulder helps.

[StarPD]

I'm still not sure why anyone would want to put a turbo on a Q45, especially mounted in the trunk. What a lot of plumbing and extra hassle for little added power where it's needed on a Q, the bottom end, plus the dreaded turbo lag.

A blower just makes so much more sense, preferably an intake mounted (suck-through) one, or even a belt/chain driven one off the front of the engine, calibrated and driven correctly for low end boost with a wastegate of course for that added grunt.

Too bad no one makes a complete kit to supercharge both G50s and F50s.Low boost, around 6 to 7 psi would need little or no recalibration of ECU and stock fuel pump and injectors would be fine.

The Q isn't designed to be a drag racer, or an extreme high-speed racer.Some boost at the low end to aid in quicker take-off and added power for road speed passing are what it does need, and it goes without saying that modding one this way would necessitate improving the suspension, steering, brakes, wheels and tires.

While such improvements may not lead to blowing off a new M5, or an S-65 AMG, it would hold it's own with anything else in the same category.

Picture a 400 or 425 HP F50 with ugraded suspension etc. THAT would truly make one into a true "Q-ship".