Who do I call if I need an piggyback ECU made for an engine swap?

[mightyversa]

My brothers and sisters. My life is going soooooo great, that I have decided!............I want to drop the MR20DE into my V.....and YES.....I know I WILL be the first.....but I want some help from my brothers and sisters here at NICO Forum!!!

Please, ANY and ALL help you can give me......business names, representatives and owners that I will need to successfully complete this project and be the first to have a 2.0L Versa. Im not doing this for bragging rights or to prove that the Versa can be faster, but I am doing this just to be D.I.F.F.E.R.E.N.T.

I hope I have more supporters than haters, but remember, im here to help you guys to in whatever you need, embrace me like your brother!!!!

Lets begin!!!
Modified by mightyversa at 8:43 PM 1/7/2009

[BBISHOPPCM]

I admire your enthusiasm! I've bounced this idea off a few people on the forum with little feedback. I bet there are very few differences in how the two engines interact with the ECU. Be sure to snag a Sentra transmission as well; the gear ratios are different. God speed!

[mightyversa]

Thanks Brother BBISHOPPCM. Ok, my grocery list so far:

MR18DE EngineMatching Transmission

Should I convert to standard or keep automatic? Serious inquiries guys. I have a 2008 Versa S Hatchback Auto WITHOUT CVT.....she runs 9.55 sec 0 - 60 mph on studded tires on steel rims, in the rain and in drive. I might be able to do better if I have summer tires, lighter rims, hot day and in 2ndgear. What are your thought of this, would it be worth my while to convert to Standard because when I test drove a 2008 Versa SL fully loaded, the clutch is aweful!!
Modified by mightyversa at 10:05 PM 1/7/2009

[Red Devil]

There are other ways to be different ya know. You say you're getting an R32 GT-R right? Sink money in that instead.

Wouldn't it just be easier to take the MR18 and just increase the displacement by .2 liters? It'd be simpler and less wasteful than swapping out an entire engine.

[mightyversa]

Good point Red Devil (And actually its a R33 GT-R). I have been sitting on it for a while and came to a conclusion. Yes, I can bore out the engine I have now and get an engine kit with new pistons, rings, crank, connecting rods, bearings and you know the deal. BUT.....I can get the MR20DE for the rock bottom price of $500 CDN. I am a technician and heavy equipment operator by trade, so swapping out the engine and putting another one in while keeping in mind that I might have to re-mount the engine mounts is quite simple for me. I have done many swap before in Honda's and Ford's, but I always had the piggyback ECU or the ECU come with the newer engine being installed. But since the Versa is so new, I am going to have wiring issues. I know in previous threads I have been saying that I make alot of money and crap, but its just a simple in out swap that I want to accomplish, I dont have the room at my crib to rebuild the engine, nor do I have the time to do so. But I thank you for bringing that option up, ill keep you posted on updates and you keep the tips coming bud. later!

[Red Devil]

The only difference between the 2 seems to be the stroke. The MR18 has a 81.1mm stroke as opposed to the 20's 90.1mm.

Swaps aren't simple in and outs. The Versa ECU will not work with the MR20. It has fuel maps, timing, e.t.c. designed for the smaller engine. If you also swap the transmission you'll have issues there as well. It's not as simple as you think.

[mightyversa]

Ok man, now we are getting somewhere. Can you list the issues that you know about. It will help me out big time.

[mightyversa]

Ok, good note. I will obviously have to mate a Sentra transmission to the Sentra Engine. So their might be some mount issues and space issues. But since the Engines are "basically" the same, maybe the transmission's are to, I mean if the internals are stronger, maybe they didnt change the design of the housing?

[mightyversa]

The only difference between the 2 seems to be the stroke. The MR18 has a 81.1mm stroke as opposed to the 20's 90.1mm.

Swaps aren't simple in and outs. The Versa ECU will not work with the MR20. It has fuel maps, timing, e.t.c. designed for the smaller engine. If you also swap the transmission you'll have issues there as well. It's not as simple as you think.

Yep, that the problem I am having, I need someone to fabricate a wiring harness or piggyback ECU to send the MR20 the signals from the MR20 ECU. I dont know if the Versa ECU is a "plug and play" with the Versa's wiring harness, cause if it is, then it would be a matter of swapping the ECU, Engine and transmission. But something tells me thats easier said than done.

[Red Devil]

Ok man, now we are getting somewhere. Can you list the issues that you know about. It will help me out big time.

There are going to be issues with ANY swap. It's never a simple in and out.

Motor: It most likely WILL NOT just drop in. The Versa and Sentra are based on 2 different platforms. This will change motor mounts, the transmission, e.t.c.

ECU: You'll need a reflash, MR20DE ECU or aftermarket ECU. The fuel maps, timing, e.t.c. will be completely different from the MR18DE.

Fuel: It may or may not be an issue. I don't think there will be any large difference in fuel needs between the 2.

It's not as simple as you'd think. What makes a swap easy is a few different things. Take the usual KA-->SR swap most 240 owners go with. The motor WILL drop in easily. Why? It's the JDM engine the 240 was designed with. We got stuck with the KA because of emission regs. Was it easy and simple to do? No. It IS easier than, say, taking an RB, LS or 2JZ and trying to put it into the 240.

[mightyversa]

There are going to be issues with ANY swap. It's never a simple in and out.

Motor: It most likely WILL NOT just drop in. The Versa and Sentra are based on 2 different platforms. This will change motor mounts, the transmission, e.t.c.

ECU: You'll need a reflash, MR20DE ECU or aftermarket ECU. The fuel maps, timing, e.t.c. will be completely different from the MR18DE.

Fuel: It may or may not be an issue. I don't think there will be any large difference in fuel needs between the 2.

It's not as simple as you'd think. What makes a swap easy is a few different things. Take the usual KA-->SR swap most 240 owners go with. The motor WILL drop in easily. Why? It's the JDM engine the 240 was designed with. We got stuck with the KA because of emission regs. Was it easy and simple to do? No. It IS easier than, say, taking an RB, LS or 2JZ and trying to put it into the 240.

Ok, gotcha. Yeah I know its not a simple in and out, but I am after doing them about say 10 times, and its easier everytime. I find new ways to do things faster and already know what to expect. But I think I might have some luck because I am using "basically" the same engine, same year and similar vehicles for the swap. I definitely need an ECU, I know that, but since the engines are almost mirror images of themselves, would the mounts be in the same spots? Along with the pulleys, accessories? I think so, I have access to a shop when I want to do this thing, and I will be taking the bonnet off and pretty much working like a ***** to get the thing out, but I want to get all the help I can get regarding wiring issues. I think the wiring is the major issue, if I have to go ahead and switch mounts I will, but for now, I think ECU upgrading is top priority.

[mightyversa]

Ok, I just found some information regarding platforms.

The Versa is based on a Nissan B platform that utilizes a stretched wheelbase, differing from the basic Nissan B platform.

The Sentra is based on a Nissan C platform which it also shares with the Rogue and X-Trail.

Ok, but is there a possibility the the engine bay is similar, but the remaining unibody is different because of purpose. Meaning rigidity because the Rogue and X-trail are SUV's, needing a more rigid and stronger unibody. I might have a problem here.

[Red Devil]

Ok, gotcha. Yeah I know its not a simple in and out, but I am after doing them about say 10 times, and its easier everytime. I find new ways to do things faster and already know what to expect. But I think I might have some luck because I am using "basically" the same engine, same year and similar vehicles for the swap. I definitely need an ECU, I know that, but since the engines are almost mirror images of themselves, would the mounts be in the same spots? Along with the pulleys, accessories? I think so, I have access to a shop when I want to do this thing, and I will be taking the bonnet off and pretty much working like a ***** to get the thing out, but I want to get all the help I can get regarding wiring issues. I think the wiring is the major issue, if I have to go ahead and switch mounts I will, but for now, I think ECU upgrading is top priority.

Not likely. Is there a possibility?. Maybe, but still not likely. The Versa is based on the B platform. The Sentra is based on the C platform. The possibility that the MR20 from a different platform will swap out without major mods into another chassis, even though they are the same engine family, are not likely.

Yes, they are in the same engine family, but they are out of 2 completely unrelated vehicles. Placement of key components and parts are almost 100% likely to differ between the 2.

[mightyversa]

Ok, so we hit a milestone here. Is there any way of confirming our results so far? I mean it would be awesome to have a Sentra and Versa side by side. I have not yet seen a 07 Sentra here where I live, so I dont have a clue, and the next dealership is in another province!! So a 10 hour ferry ride away plus 1 hour driving distance....yeah, Newfoundland sucks!!

[Red Devil]

[mightyversa]

Lol, I know this has nothing to do with this thread, but I just saw the E-Town clock with EST 1827 on it. Man, only 12,000 people there? I am in Corner Brook, Newfoundland and about 20,000 people here. I though this was small!

[Red Devil]

The pic is of an 07 Sentra engine bay btw.

[reyes1212]

I was like..holy crap that's almost identical.

[SuperTurbo]

Hey Marc, I am not sure will this be easier.....

Let say if you can get a MR20DE, do you think you can get a MR18DE for like low low price too?

What I am thinking is check what is the different in-between 2 engine (Other than the harness plug area)

I am thinking will it be possibile to pull out the MR18 crank, rod, piston, valve.... out, and put all those stuff from a MR20 back into the MR18 block...(Only swap the main components, but don't touch any of those sensors, that way, all the signals should be the same compare to before, but you got a larger displacement)

Only thing which is bugging me is how can you tell the computer to shoot a bit more fuel

[Red Devil]

I was like..holy crap that's almost identical.

The engine? Yes. Engine bay? No

[mightyversa]

Ok. SuperTurbo. I was wondering the same thing as well. Is it possible that since the engines are identical, will switching the internals be suffice instead of a whole swap? Something to look into. I can get the MR18DE for $500 CDN as well (thinking about getting one as a spare incase the one I got now decides to give out). Good point SuperTurbo, thanks for your interest, its nice to know there are people out their willing to help a brotha, lol.

Alright. Red Devil. Holy ****, I thought that was a Versa bay, man, that really gets me pumped. I know its not exactly like the Versa, but really similar. We just dont have enough references for 100% viable answer. I am really taking your points into consideration Red Devil, but wouldnt you agree that the ECU would actually be a bigger problem than the engine mounts? I mean its not hard to switch them, just takes a lot of sweat, blood and time, cant forget fabrication, time, sweat and blood....I already said those things....but its hard, I know. Wiring specialists, who or what companies are known for creating these piggy backs systems?

[Knightro2]

Quick google search....www.ecudirect.com

I dunno if that helps

[NY.AD.MAN]

Remember just a couple things about newer model Nissan Engine/transmission Swaps:

1. The engine is going to add a considerable amount of weight, so you'll have to start by welding new brackets and frame supports to prevent engine mount failure (I'll post pics up in just a bit).

2. The CVT transmission for the Sentra won't fit the brackets for the Versa, but the Manual transmission will have a much easier time with the connections with the rest of the drivetrain, DO NOT swap for an automatic!

3. You will have to get the ecu from Nissan because the engine is so new, but keep in mind that with a new ECU that the rest of the car's electronics are going to need a factory reset in order to reach full functionality.

Good luck to you! If you have any more questions, I'll be talking with a Nissan tech in order to figure it out further, so feel free to ask anything!

[mightyversa]

Thanks NY.AD.MAN and Knightro2. Very well considered comments that I appreciate.

Why will the engine be considerably heavier, if its mostly the same engine?

So I guess doing a transmission swap from auto to manual will be necessary?

ECU from Nissan. Cool, if you can get me more info I greatly appreciate it. Thanks guys, keep em coming.

[biggie]

Engine shouldn't be that much heavier. Maybe 40lbs or so, max.

Just get a Sentra MR20 ECU and adapt it to work with the rest of the Versa (splicing wiring where needed).

With the different engine/transmission/platform, axles may need to be custom lengths and not even sure if they would mate up.

Still would be money better spent on a custom turbo setup on the 1.8 rather than all the work just to gain the .2L.

[alonsorules8]

Mightyversa I have an interesting tidbit for you. Since the Versa is on the shared B platform with Renault you might be able to get The 2.0L engine to fit because the Clio's in France come with this engine as an option.

The Renaultsport Clio197 come standard with a 2.0L engine If you go to http://www.Renault.co.uk And check out the specs of the 197 you might find exactly what you are looking for to upgrade the Versa .

Another side note The versa is only 2 inches longer than the Clio but they are almost Identical!

Best of luck on your build!!!

[mightyversa]

alonsorules8 and biggie. I greatly thank you for your input. I am starting to lean towards what alonsorules8 had suggested. I will look into it, but for now, lets see what else could interfere. Good job alonsorules8, keep in touch.

A little tid bit of info on the Renault 197 Engine:

F4R*830197 HP @ 7250 RPM (wow thats high!!)156 Ft Lbs torque @ 5550 RPM

Sounds like this transplant would be very interesting, having a 200 HP versa stock, then adding on the performance parts.....maybe pushing 225 HP without forced induction?
Modified by mightyversa at 10:14 AM 1/8/2009

[BlueMango]

AEM also has ECU's and EMS's, worth a look especially if you decide to go for the more power option.

[alonsorules8]

I will try to get in touch with my friend at Renault and see if they are allowed to ship the Clio 197 ECU to the America's. It may take a day or two to have an answer for you though.

[SuperTurbo]

Hey Marc....

Isn't the purpose of this car is for your wife to drive around too??

If... you switch it to Manual, how can she drive it?

Btw, do you think gettin the Versa CVT transmission, and the ECU will be worth it? Because you may be able to make the Versa into a fast car + your wife car drive too.....