White smoke coming out of exhaust, what gives?

Post by **JDMSIL80** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:34 pm

Recently I have imported a JDM Sil-80 from Japan, the car passed full inspection and passed emission test readings by a rainbow. The only performance mod to the car is HKS 3" dragger exhaust, and the car has 160,000km on the odometer.This week I notice that my car smokes a lot during idle. It will happen when I came to a stoplight, put the shifter at idle for about 5 secounds, then the white smoke gradually comes out from the exhaust. There is absolutely no smoke during driving, the car runs smooth and strong. It only happens after I stop the car and the engine running at idle.The smoke is white but its not coolent, as both the radiator and overflow have not gone down. Its not oil cause the smoke isnt blue and the oil level hasnt gone down at all either. Its not fuel because it isn't black so Im not running rich.Its driving me nuts cause I cant figure it out. I am still running stock cat and my emission test have suggest my car is running the way it should. Any ideas/advice would be great, thanks!

Post by **AmoebAssassin** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:59 pm

How recently was the exhaust put on? Could just be machining residues burning off the inside and outside of the exhaust...

Post by **sdtouge** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:10 pm

seems liek your turbo is bad

Post by **c-rad** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:33 am

Valve stem seals! If you are idling for a few seconds and it smokes a tad... you hit the gas once and a puff comes out the back, but there is no smoke while actually driving, you can most likely bet that is your problem.

Post by **float_6969** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 3:15 am

c-rad wrote:Valve stem seals! If you are idling for a few seconds and it smokes a tad... you hit the gas once and a puff comes out the back, but there is no smoke while actually driving, you can most likely bet that is your problem.

I concur. This is very common on V8 Chevy's and the problems are identical. And oil smoke isn't nessicarily bluish. It can be white. And with valve stem seals, they leak so little that you wouldn't hardly be able to notice a drop in oil level except maybe from oil change to oil change.

Post by **JDMSIL80** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:12 am

The car came with the exhaust, so that couldn't be it..

AmoebAssassin wrote:How recently was the exhaust put on? Could just be machining residues burning off the inside and outside of the exhaust...

Post by **JDMSIL80** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:16 am

That sounds about right, very simliar to what my car is doing.

Are these valve stem seals costly to replace in terms of parts and labour?

Is this a common problem with high mileage CA18DET?

c-rad wrote:Valve stem seals! If you are idling for a few seconds and it smokes a tad... you hit the gas once and a puff comes out the back, but there is no smoke while actually driving, you can most likely bet that is your problem.

Post by **c-rad** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:16 am

JDMSIL80 wrote:The car came with the exhaust, so that couldn't be it..

Then refer to what float and myself said.

Post by **c-rad** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:18 am

JDMSIL80 wrote:That sounds about right, very simliar to what my car is doing.

Are these valve stem seals costly to replace in terms of parts and labour?

Is this a common problem with high mileage CA18DET?

Well, you need to take the head off, and disassemble the entire valvetrain to replace them.

Post by **JDMSIL80** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:21 am

What is the USDM part number for the valve stem seals? Its not listed in the sticky thread.

Thanks!

Post by **boost_boy** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:35 am

Before you go assuming its the valve stem seals, you better get a good assesment of what you r issue is. First of all you said it wasn't oil because it wasn't blue. If you think it's the valve stem seals, then it would be oil and you can smell burning oil. If it's the stock turbo on your car, I bet that it's your turbo's seals giving way. If you can't get a good idea of what to look for, you need to take your car to someone who knows performance engines and will give you an honest assesment. Asking forum members in this case will haveyou firing in the dark; especially if you're not as to what you're seeing.

BTW, the CA18 DOHC series is not one that have major issues with the valve stem seals. If you look around this forum, that will be the last thing discussed here. This motor's design for some reason or another spares the head and it's components in the event that there's some catastrophic oil pump failure. You'll trash your rod bearings and rings before you screw up your valve stem seals. If the smoking doesn't smell like burnt oil, then it could very well be your headgasket failing. And yes, your car will run just fine even though your headgasket is aging.

Dee

Post by **c-rad** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:37 am

JDMSIL80 wrote:What is the USDM part number for the valve stem seals? Its not listed in the sticky thread.

Thanks!

You're better off just getting a 'head set'. You would be replacing the headgasket anyways when you do it. And it doesn't hurt to replace the valve cover gaskets and cam seals. I got mine off ebay for $69.99 and it came with everything except the semi-circular seal plugs which you can get for like $3 seperately. The valve stem seals themselves are like $40+ a set, so you may as well get the whole set.

Post by **JDMSIL80** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:55 am

I didnt expect to be doing rebuild already....is this a common problem or just my unlucky day?

Anyway, what else is worthwhile to do at the same time while the head is opened up?

Im thinking about cams, thicker head gasket ...etc.

For the amount of money maybe its worthwhile to do engine swap instead?

Would like to hear what you guys think and suggest. Thanks!

Post by **JDMSIL80** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:59 am

Thanks for the opinion. I will take my car to a specialist for full inspection again and see what the solutions are.

boost_boy wrote: BTW, the CA18 DOHC series is not one that have major issues with the valve stem seals. If you look around this forum, that will be the last thing discussed here. This motor's design for some reason or another spares the head and it's components in the event that there's some catastrophic oil pump failure. You'll trash your rod bearings and rings before you screw up your valve stem seals. If the smoking doesn't smell like burnt oil, then it could very well be your headgasket failing. And yes, your car will run just fine even though your headgasket is aging.

Dee

Post by **JDMSIL80** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:10 am

Had the mechanic check on my car yesterday, the smoke was infact bluish smoke, he confirms the car is burning oil. He did an oil change for me and says the old oil was really dirty, hoping the oil change may do some improvement. Today as I was driving with the new oil, the blue smoke still blows out from the exhaust at idle. Next thing he suggest to try is do an engine flush.

Im expecting the worse scenario that engine flush wouldnt do it, what would be the next step to find out the problem? Replace all seals and headgasket? New turbo?...need some good advice guys.

Post by **c-rad** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:20 am

If it IS the valve stem seals, you can try adding a tbsp of brake fluid to your oil and it should swell the seals and reduce/stop the leaking. Mine are so bad on my KA that that trick didn't even help on mine....

Post by **JDMSIL80** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:27 am

My mechanic had poured in some transmission fluid which should do some cleaning of the piston ring and seals. I would drive a couple of days to see if there's any improvement. If the smoke is gradually getting less, than we are in the right track. Next thing would be engine flush and new spark plugs. I will suggest about the brake fluid as you said.

c-rad wrote:If it IS the valve stem seals, you can try adding a tbsp of brake fluid to your oil and it should swell the seals and reduce/stop the leaking. Mine are so bad on my KA that that trick didn't even help on mine....

Post by **sdtouge** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:29 am

i heard desiel fuel works too just put that in with some oil as a sort of flush style thing.

Post by **nocwage** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:32 am

Are you another canuck like me with an imported Silvia?

My turbo went and I had the exact same problems.

Driving it would seem fine.. come to a stop and it'd start smoking a little.. then a LOT.. start driving and it cleared up.. next stop it'd do the same thing.

It was my turbo, the seal went and as the turbo spooled down (due to idle) it began to seep a LITTLE oil. The oil burning wasn't a lot, and I didn't notice my oil going down but that's because the turbo atomized the oil so it burned "efficiently" in the motor and I got a lot of smoke at idle because of it.If it was a LOT of oil then you'd lose power, you may not even have as much smoke since the large blobs won't all burn, the atomized droplets burn easier so a small amount LOOKS big.

Post by **nocwage** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:46 am

Take the hotpipe off (since it's easily accessable) and just stick your finger in there.It should be totally clean. If it's oilly/black then your turbo needs new seals/replacement.

It's quick and easy and costs nothing to check.

Post by **JDMSIL80** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:49 am

Sounds like Im in the exact same boat as you before! My car has the very similar symtoms as you said. Driving would be fine, but let it idle for a few seconds then bluish white smoke started coming out the exhaust gradually, then smokes ALOT if I continue to idle. Start rolling again and the smoke is gone. Where do you suggest I go from here? replace the turbo?

I imported my Sil-80 from Japan with 160,000km, the car is bone stock with only Apexi Dunk exhaust and Gab shocks. Im suprised the engine is burning oil already. Here's a picture of my ride:

nocwage wrote:Are you another canuck like me with an imported Silvia?

My turbo went and I had the exact same problems.

Driving it would seem fine.. come to a stop and it'd start smoking a little.. then a LOT.. start driving and it cleared up.. next stop it'd do the same thing.

It was my turbo, the seal went and as the turbo spooled down (due to idle) it began to seep a LITTLE oil. The oil burning wasn't a lot, and I didn't notice my oil going down but that's because the turbo atomized the oil so it burned "efficiently" in the motor and I got a lot of smoke at idle because of it.If it was a LOT of oil then you'd lose power, you may not even have as much smoke since the large blobs won't all burn, the atomized droplets burn easier so a small amount LOOKS big.

Post by **nocwage** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:56 am

It's not the engine so much as the turbo 160,000km is a lot, and it's atleast 15 years old.

My turbo blew because I was running ~12psi with a full 3" turbo-back exhaust. :

Right now I've got a guy in Innisfil building me a custom manifold for a T3 turbo.(.48/super.60)

Post by **JDMSIL80** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:15 am

I'd be happy if the turbo is really the cause of the smoke and burning smell.

What turbo would you recommend me to replace? I want a turbo with great response midrange power, with about 300whp. Would HKS GT28 work well for CA18DET and reliable for long term use?

nocwage wrote:It's not the engine so much as the turbo 160,000km is a lot, and it's atleast 15 years old.

My turbo blew because I was running ~12psi with a full 3" turbo-back exhaust. :

Right now I've got a guy in Innisfil building me a custom manifold for a T3 turbo.(.48/super.60)

Modified by JDMSIL80 at 11:25 AM 7/21/2005

Post by **nocwage** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:26 am

If you plan to keep the car for a while and you plan on running a lot of boost I'd suggest moving up to a T3 instead of a T2. The T2 turbo is a very old design and isn't as efficient as a T3.A Ball Bearing turbo is incredibly expensive and difficult to replace. Rebuilding will cost nearly as much as the turbo itself. That is why I went with a T3 instead of a T28. I can blow up two T3s for the price of 1 BB T28.

The difference between spool up on a wet bearing and a ball bearing is about 8%.. So you'll pay 100% more for 8% difference.

Post by **JDMSIL80** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:45 am

What are the parts I need for installing a T3?

Ive only heard good things about HKS turbo so I'd rather dish out a little more money for it. Which one would you recommend? Is HKS turbo a bolt-on affair to CA18DET motor?

I just found this HKS turbo on ebay, would it bolt-on to my motor?:http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...37203

Im a newbie to turbo scene, really appreciate your help on this.

nocwage wrote:If you plan to keep the car for a while and you plan on running a lot of boost I'd suggest moving up to a T3 instead of a T2. The T2 turbo is a very old design and isn't as efficient as a T3.A Ball Bearing turbo is incredibly expensive and difficult to replace. Rebuilding will cost nearly as much as the turbo itself. That is why I went with a T3 instead of a T28. I can blow up two T3s for the price of 1 BB T28.

The difference between spool up on a wet bearing and a ball bearing is about 8%.. So you'll pay 100% more for 8% difference.

Modified by JDMSIL80 at 12:09 PM 7/21/2005

Post by **Dattebayo** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:49 am

Some of the "bolt on" turbos you can use with a CA18DET are the Nissan Silvia turbos and the Pulsar GTiR with some modification.

The Pulsar turbo and the S13 Silvia turbo are not ball bearing turbos, so they are the best bet for cheap reliability and rebuilding.

Post by **JDMSIL80** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 5:49 am

I'm still debating whether I should spend the money and get a brand new turbo. Because Im still unsure at this point if it is really the turbo thats causing the smoke. But as "nocwage" posted earlier, we have almost identical syntoms and that he turbo seal was the cause. If you guys are in the same situation as me, what would you do next?Rebuild the oem turbo? Upgrade to a brand new bigger turbo? Or engine swap?

Post by **jjwilks240** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 8:26 pm

i would try and go for an sr turbine in good condition from a friend or another ca turbine.

you can get a decent sr turbine for $200cdn any day of the week

Post by **JDMSIL80** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 8:58 pm

^CDN$200?? Where did you see such a deal?

The best quote Ive got was a used S14 T28 for CDN$500, but I heard S14 turbos are non-ball bearing so I dont really want the lag.

Post by **Dattebayo** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:01 pm

He means an S13 turbo.

I got mine for $50 USD.

White smoke coming out of exhaust, what gives?

White smoke coming out of exhaust, what gives?

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